confused about best aerial

pixelbeat

I was quoted €450 to install an aerial by a "TV guy" in Longford :eek:
So I did some digging myself,
but I've a couple of unanswered questions.

I'm only 5 miles from Cairn Hill so I've determined
I will be receiving the following:

RTE = 40 (video = 623.25MHz, Audio = 629.25MHz)
NET2 = 43 (video = 647.25MHz, Audio = 653.25MHz)
TV3 = 46 (video = 671.25MHz, Audio = 677.25MHz)
TG4 = 50 (video = 703.25MHz, Audio = 709.25MHz)

Also from Brougher Mountain on the Fermanagh/Tyrone border
which is a 100kW transmiter I will receive:

BBC1 = 22 (video = 479.25MHz, Audio = 485.25MHz)
ITV1 = 25 (video = 503.25MHz, Audio = 509.25MHz)
BBC2 = 28 (video = 527.25MHz, Audio = 533.25MHz)
CH4 = 32 (video = 559.25MHz, Audio = 565.25MHz)

Notice that the frequencies from Brougher are "group A",
so I was thinking I could get a "group A" UHF aerial
which hopefully would also pick up the Cairn Hill frequencies
(which I can get with snow from "rabbit's ears").
I had a look at http://www.antiference.com/9graph.gif
which suggests I would get around a third more power
from a "group A" over a wideband aerial, but that graph
suggests I wouldn't receive any signal for band V ?

My other question is where to source aerials?
I notice peats only have an "Antiference Wideband UHF Television Aerial"
(for €30). I've seen reference to a "Triax 100 Element Group A"
sourced in Burns Aerials in Templogue.
Anywhere else that would ship or closer to Longford?

thanks in advance,
Pádraig.

Ulsterman 1690

You are right about needing a good group A aerial for Brougher but unless youre not too bothered about the Irish channels I would invest in a seperate aerial for Cairnhill. The performance of "grouped" aerials on out of group channels can be unpredictable (to say the least) Oh and it will be pointing in the wrong direction

I'm only 5 miles from Cairn Hill

In that case unless theres something (house/hill//tree etc) in the way I daresay a cheap 10 element wideband will do the trick
I say wideband because digital TV if it ever starts) from Cairnhill will use channels 21-51

You will also (probably) need
1) masthead preamplifier (booster) for the BBC (Group A) aerial
2) A power supply unit for the masthead amp
3) A group combiner to enable the RTE and BBC aerials to use the same downlead
4) Pole/mast
6) lashing kit/brackets
7) cable (dont use cheap "hardware store" crap)
8) Insulated Staples, Plugs etc

I notice peats only have an "Antiference Wideband UHF Television Aerial" (for €30). I've seen reference to a "Triax 100 Element Group A"
sourced in Burns Aerials in Templogue.

Dont use the Antiference Wideband for BBC (although It should do fine for RTE) The Triax might be OK for Brougher

Also bear in mind that the Divis BBC transmitter is five times more powerful than Brougher so even if Brougher is nearer you might still get better results from Divis (handily enough Divis is "Group A" as well)

lawhec

Just to add on from what Ulsterman said, the few times I've been in Logford most houses have aerials pointed towards Brougher for the UK channels.

The Triax 100 element aerial should be enough for Brougher along with the masthead amp. If you're lucky enough to have a good enough signal, reception of Freeview from Brougher could be possible but that's better left to a later date.

€450 is obviously a large sum of money but not outrageous. That what was paid on our house for a near complete terrestial setup, but this included three aerials, a 15ft pole, new lashing, two masthead amps, two grouped combiners and distribution around the house. I probably could have got everything myself and done it but I didn't fancy going up on our roof :eek: which reminds me for anyone trying such DIY - always take precautions and don't end up like Rod Hull.

byte

Instead of a Triax 100, I'd suggest the Hirschmann equivalent. Can't remember the model, could be an 817 or something.

lawhec

byte wrote:

Instead of a Triax 100, I'd suggest the Hirschmann equivalent. Can't remember the model, could be an 817 or something.

I often see southern installers swear by Hirschmann aerials yet they're rather unknown around these parts. Is there anywhere where they can be bought online?

P.S. - this is probably the Hirschmann aerial you're thinking about...

http://products.hirschmann.com//index.php?innoparam=-&sessiontoken=20051215014421-29026860&manid=hirschmann&CFID=2212849&CFTOKEN=29026860&pbparam=tid=530,pid=1031,spid=2,maid=0,view=1

Also, I forgot to mention in my last post, if you're using a large aerial (which you'll certainly need for either Brougher or divis), make sure that the diameter of the pole is wide enough, at least 50mm, preferably 60mm.

DMC

Yes, Rod Hull was a lesson to us all.

I'm surprised that the rabbits ears are snowy in Edgeworthstown for Cairn....

pixelbeat

Wow thanks for all the info!

Hmm, yes Cairn Hill and Brougher Mountain are
probably 30' apart for edgeworthtown.

As for getting snow only 5 miles from Cairn Hill,
I'm guessing rabbit's ears, downstairs in a new building
with all that fancy silver backed insulation might be the cause?
Surely a group A aerial on the roof can't be any worse?

It's interesting to note that Cairn Hill when doing
digital in the future will also use group A.
So I will get a cheapo wideband, thanks.

So all I need now is info on where to source
Triax 100 Element Group A
or preferably
Hirschmann FESA 817 N 37

cheers!

lawhec

Triax Unix 100A

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=AP00620&N=411

marclt

Whats the front to back ration like on the triax... i have a problem with mount leinster with co-channel from kilvey hill... would this be good at solving that particular problem?

byte

I don't know of anywhere they can be bought online, most of my aerial suppliers stock them.

Yes, it was teh FESA817 I was thinking of. Fantastic bit of kit, and far handier to assemble compared to the UNIX100.

What I hate about the UNIX100, is the extremely fragile elements, which are held by plastic that gets brittle over the years and gets broken by birds and winds. The Hirshmann is more resilient to these effects. Of course, because of this, the Hirshmann also comes at a bigger price! UNIX100's are fairly cheaper.

Also, there used to be a very sturdy aerial, the Antiference XG18 I think it was called. Haven't seen them in a few years, but they could take some beating (weather wise)!

Northern Correspondent wrote:

I often see southern installers swear by Hirschmann aerials yet they're rather unknown around these parts. Is there anywhere where they can be bought online?

P.S. - this is probably the Hirschmann aerial you're thinking about...

http://products.hirschmann.com//index.php?innoparam=-&sessiontoken=20051215014421-29026860&manid=hirschmann&CFID=2212849&CFTOKEN=29026860&pbparam=tid=530,pid=1031,spid=2,maid=0,view=1

Also, I forgot to mention in my last post, if you're using a large aerial (which you'll certainly need for either Brougher or divis), make sure that the diameter of the pole is wide enough, at least 50mm, preferably 60mm.

lawhec

byte wrote:

Also, there used to be a very sturdy aerial, the Antiference XG18 I think it was called. Haven't seen them in a few years, but they could take some beating (weather wise)!

You mean this one?

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=AP00993&N=0

pixelbeat

Thanks again for all the info provided.
I was able to get a bit of time to document my findings.
Hope it's useful for someone.

Pádraig.

cast_iron

Well my only advice is go for the best (generally the most expensive) aerial you can afford. For a decent one, expect up to about €80 - €100 euros, and more for a whopper of an aerial.

If you can get away without the 2nd aerial for Cairn Hill, all the better - you save money on the aerial and the combiner, and more importantly, when dealing with weak signals - the combiner box will take a few dB off the signal. One would expect to pick up Cairn Hill ok on the side or back of the bigger aerial, unless you get unlucky with ghosting.
If you buy it local, the dealer might even let you return the aerial if you end up not needing it.

What I hate about the UNIX100, is the extremely fragile elements, which are held by plastic that gets brittle over the years and gets broken by birds and winds. The Hirshmann is more resilient to these effects. Of course, because of this, the Hirshmann also comes at a bigger price! UNIX100's are fairly cheaper.

Couldn't agree with you more byte. God damn crows! You get what you pay for.