what are acceptable pings

thetourist

i know what pings are - but what difference do they make to me and what is considered acceptable - mine ( IBB ) today are

gateway - 43
dns - 53
google.ie - 325
boards.ie - 67

ps are there any other relevant places to ping ?
pps what is "quality of service"

thanks

RangeR

All those pings are acceptable except Google.ie
I get about 40ms to goolge.ie

QOS is a service on your router [not all routers] that allow you to prioritise traffic out over the internet. For example, you can give your gaming a higher priority than downloading. It means that no matter what is being downloaded, your gaming will still be as smooth as possible. This is a very simplistic explanation, but basically it.

*EDIT* I'm using Clearwire in Naas
*EDIT 2* When I had IBB, I could ping the gateway in 4 ms average. So your gateway ping is bad too. Boards seems about average but a little on the high side. nothing to worry about.

If you're a gamer, try ping your gaming server. See what this gives you. It should be below 70 but ideally in or around the 40ms mark

thetourist

All those pings are acceptable except Google.ie
I get about 40ms to goolge.ie

do you know if there's anything i can do about it - i mean is it somthing to do with google - or is it a problem with ibb

i dont play games really - does the high ping to google actually make any difference

the difference between the 4ms to gateway that you got with ibb and the 43 that i'm getting - does it really matter that much - or is it just download speed that is the important part

TerrorFirmer

Ideally you should have an in-game ping of about 40-70 in Irish Servers. That said, you can have a much higher ping and still be grand.

I play Soldier of Fortune II 1.0 online, not a hugely populated game due to it being an older version compared to the 1.3 version, so I have to play on US servers mostly.

I get pings of about 185, as does my friend, and we can play in 32 man servers with no lag whatever.

325 pinging google looks very suspicious though.

room305

Don't automatically assume the high delay on your ping is due to heavy traffic on ibb's network. If google's servers are busy they may take a while to respond to pings. Run ping for at least a minute or two ("ping -t <address>" in ms-dos) and look at the average value. As a general rule you would probably require a ping time of < 200ms for games or skype (that is a very general rule though).

RangeR

room305 wrote:

Don't automatically assume the high delay on your ping is due to heavy traffic on ibb's network. If google's servers are busy they may take a while to respond to pings. Run ping for at least a minute or two ("ping -t <address>" in ms-dos) and look at the average value. As a general rule you would probably require a ping time of < 200ms for games or skype (that is a very general rule though).

A ping of >10ms for VoIP would be unacceptable to me.

*EDIT* A ping of >100ms for VoIP would be unacceptable to me.

thetourist

IrishTLR wrote:

A ping of >10ms for VoIP would be unacceptable to me.

is that what the delayed reaction thing is about on skype then ????

if i got a ping of less than 10ms then are you saying i wouldnt have that

thanks


..............
GAMES --- guys thanks for all your help but i DONT PLAY GAMES -- i am trying to find out what differences a high ping makes to activities OTHER THAN GAMING !!!

RangeR

Sorry, I meant to say >100ms. Original posted edited.

Don't I feel stoopid? :eek:

Drapper

These are acceptable pings (NTL):-

ping www.google.ie

Pinging www.l.google.com [66.102.9.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=243

Ping statistics for 66.102.9.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 31ms, Maximum = 32ms, Average = 31ms

DemonOfTheFall

Eh, the delay/echo you get on Skype is just because Skype sucks. Using a different VoIP service with the same connection you wouldn't have the same problem.

I really resent how popular Skype is, it's an absolutely cack service. I wish something decent could have become popular instead.

Cuddlesworth

A bad latency can effect download speeds

Steffano2002

Drapper wrote:

These are acceptable pings (NTL):-

ping www.google.ie

Pinging www.l.google.com [66.102.9.104] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.102.9.104: bytes=32 time=32ms TTL=243

Ping statistics for 66.102.9.104:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 31ms, Maximum = 32ms, Average = 31ms

I'm on IBB and here's what I get:

Pinging www.l.google.com [66.249.93.99] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 66.249.93.99: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=243
Reply from 66.249.93.99: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.93.99: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=242
Reply from 66.249.93.99: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=242

Ping statistics for 66.249.93.99:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 36ms, Maximum = 43ms, Average = 40ms

Pinging your Gateway at 40+ms is unacceptable IMO. Here's what I get when I ping mine:

Pinging 83.141.66.1 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 83.141.66.1: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=255
Reply from 83.141.66.1: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=255
Reply from 83.141.66.1: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=255
Reply from 83.141.66.1: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=255

Ping statistics for 83.141.66.1:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 4ms, Average = 2ms

Any more than that and you basically have a crap connection...

watty

On Digiweb Metro (3mbps) I get 10ms to 20ms Pings no packet loss. Clicking on anything you see how busy the server is, not delayed by your connection. Many pages can "flick past" faster than page turning on a PDF...


My friend close to IBB base staion gets 140ms to 160ms and up to 50% packet loss. He just about manages online real time games.

Mostly it will seem fine.

Perfectly working two way satellite "Broadband" will do 3000ms pings. Gaming is impossible. You get up to a 3 second delay clicking on a page before it starts loading. No matter how fast the connection is.

wheresmybeaver

I tried playing HL2 Deathmatch the other night and when I was checking player lists I saw my ping was between 60 and 100 to sometimes 150 or 160. Everyone else was below 60, usually. Does this give other players an advantage or what?

Also, I'm playing over a wireless router, I suppose this adds a bit of latency but how much exactly? and one of the other dudes in the flat is connected by wireless aswell and is doing some major downloading, does this affect it? I'm never sure how much dandwidth these online games need.

So many questions.... Cheers!

Dave

thetourist

dave - you should really start new subjects in a seperate thread - it just gets too difficult to read 2 conversations at the one time - ask the mod to move it for you if you want

thetourist

krazy_8s wrote:

A bad latency can effect download speeds

how does that work ?? - surely if im getting 100kB at 100kB/sec it will take a second and that's it ??



.... another question ... surely pings on wireless networks will not be as fast as wired ??? shouldn't we be comparing like with like - or should they be roughly the same?

RangeR

gumboots wrote:

how does that work ?? - surely if im getting 100kB at 100kB/sec it will take a second and that's it ??



.... another question ... surely pings on wireless networks will not be as fast as wired ??? shouldn't we be comparing like with like - or should they be roughly the same?

To continue going off topic, I have clearwire [wireless]. My computer is also wirelesly connected to the router. When it works, I can connect to Steam [HL2CTF] at pings of between 40 and 60 ms

DemonOfTheFall

Bad Latency can affect download speeds because of the way TCP works. You're computer has to send an acknowledgment that it receives every bit of data it's sent. If the latency is high these acknowledgments can get mixed up causing the computer sending you data to slow down the transfer.

gumboots, Do you mean wireless networks as in the wireless network inside your house, or as in IBB/Metro/Clearwire?

wheresmybeaver

gumboots wrote:

dave - you should really start new subjects in a seperate thread - it just gets too difficult to read 2 conversations at the one time - ask the mod to move it for you if you want

questions are ping related, not really a new topic? ;-)

ie How badly do:
1. wireless routers and
2. somebody else downloading on your connection
affect your pings?

because I did read somewhere once that wireless isn't perfect for online gaming; but I don't remember specifically if it was because of ping issues?

Dave

thetourist

gumboots, Do you mean wireless networks as in the wireless network inside your house, or as in IBB/Metro/Clearwire?

no i meant wireless network - ie would it not take less time for a ping along wires to a server somewhere that if it was going by radio

thetourist

wheresmybeaver wrote:

questions are ping related, not really a new topic? ;-)

ie How badly do:
1. wireless routers and
2. somebody else downloading on your connection
affect your pings?

because I did read somewhere once that wireless isn't perfect for online gaming; but I don't remember specifically if it was because of ping issues?

Dave

fair enough on the pings but it had nothing to do with gaming .... if you read the post my question is actually about how pings affect things OTHER than gaming !! - and anything about wireless was intended as a ref to wireless networks - not routers

in answer to your questions i dont know but i do think i also heard someone say that wireless networks were not good for gaming but i wasnt really minding

Peanut

wheresmybeaver wrote:

ie How badly do:
1. wireless routers and
2. somebody else downloading on your connection
affect your pings?

1-Makes virtually no difference (assuming good connection & you are the only one using it)

2-Can affect them badly, depending on type of usage & how much spare Internet bandwidth you have at the time.

Ruffty^

Depends if they are uploading too. Sometimes I share my mates 3mb ntl connection, when he downloads at full speed it does effect pings, if he is uploading it destroys pings.
wheresmybeaver why don`t you find out the answer to your second question yourself?! Just tell your mate not to download for a few hours and try gaming. Then compare the two and you will see;
1. ping when he isn`t downloading is good
2. ping when he is downloading is bad

Gumboots the ping to your gateway doesn`t matter as long as its around 60ms or lower. Do you always get poor pings like that to google.ie and good pings to other sites, or was it once off?

Oh yea and if you are thinking of complaining, mentioning pings to IBB usually does nothing, they don`t really care about them. All they care about is the download/upload speed you are getting imo.

zilog_jones

Ruffty^ wrote:

Gumboots the ping to your gateway doesn`t matter as long as its around 60ms or lower.

60ms is a pretty significant addition to everything else. If you have a wired connection to your gateway you should be getting less than 1ms - either that or something's going wrong. Any pings in a wired LAN should be less than 10ms. In UL I get averages of around 0.8-4ms between PCs in different buildings.

Dunno about wireless LANs, ping-wise. I think in my friend's house he was getting about 15ms between their crap old PC (w/ 802.11g adaptor on stinky USB1.1) and their Netopia router - might have been higher though...

thetourist

yes rufty - google is always between 200 and 400 - usually around 300 - i am beginning to get the picture - does this mean that i have to wait 300ms for data to START arriving from google after i hit enter ??

zilog_jones wrote:

60ms is a pretty significant addition to everything else. If you have a wired connection to your gateway you should be getting less than 1ms - either that or something's going wrong. Any pings in a wired LAN should be less than 10ms. In UL I get averages of around 0.8-4ms between PCs in different buildings.

it's a wired LAN(in my house) connected to a wireless WAN(IBB) - i'm a bit confused - i thought the gateway was the first point on the network outside my house - in this case it's an aerial about 200yards away - do you think 60 is acceptable in that case or no( for downloads/voip and regular surfing )

Steffano2002

gumboots wrote:

yes rufty - google is always between 200 and 400 - usually around 300 - i am beginning to get the picture - does this mean that i have to wait 300ms for data to START arriving from google after i hit enter ??

Isn't it 600ms? When you click enter the packets have to upload and then come back down...

gumboots wrote:

it's a wired LAN(in my house) connected to a wireless WAN(IBB) - i'm a bit confused - i thought the gateway was the first point on the network outside my house - in this case it's an aerial about 200yards away - do you think 60 is acceptable in that case or no( for downloads/voip and regular surfing )

60ms to your gateway is (IMO) unacceptable. If I had that, I couldn't play online! I guess it's fine for browsing but you should be getting less than 4ms...

thetourist

Isn't it 600ms? When you click enter the packets have to upload and then come back down...

i thought that the ping was already taking that into consideration - isnt ping a measure of how long it takes to get to the server and back down ??

could someone post the address of a typical game server here so i can check it and use it as a big stick against IBB when im talking to them - i dont play games online - but i hadnt planned on not being able to either
thanks

Steffano2002

gumboots wrote:

i thought that the ping was already taking that into consideration - isnt ping a measure of how long it takes to get to the server and back down ??

You could be (and probably are) correct!

gumboots wrote:

could someone post the address of a typical game server here so i can check it and use it as a big stick against IBB when im talking to them - i dont play games online - but i hadnt planned on not being able to either
thanks

Here's the IP of G.F.F's "Call of Duty 2" server based in the UK: 195.242.236.40:28960

You should ping this at around 40~50ms

Nevyn

I suggest you try www.jolt.co.uk

thetourist

Steffano2002 wrote:

You could be (and probably are) correct!



Here's the IP of G.F.F's "Call of Duty 2" server based in the UK: 195.242.236.40:28960

You should ping this at around 40~50ms

thanks - excuse my ignorance but what's the :28960 at the end and how do i put that into the ping - i tried just typing it in but no dice

Steffano2002

Sorry gumboots that's just the port number. You don't need that to ping the IP. just write < ping 195.242.236.40 -t > (Ctrl + c to stop pinging).

thetourist

got average of 70ms over 50 pings to call of duty

Peanut

zilog_jones wrote:

Dunno about wireless LANs, ping-wise. I think in my friend's house he was getting about 15ms between their crap old PC (w/ 802.11g adaptor on stinky USB1.1) and their Netopia router - might have been higher though...

You should only get something like a +2/3ms addition going through a WIFI router in your house, although it depends on the brand and settings etc.

For a wireless ISP, you can't say in advance, only that some services use a type of time spread interleaving of packets which can slow things down (ripwave afaik). More important though is just pure wireless congestion with your ISP.

Drapper

Peanut wrote:

You should only get something like a +2/3ms addition going through a WIFI router in your house, although it depends on the brand and settings etc.

For a wireless ISP, you can't say in advance, only that some services use a type of time spread interleaving of packets which can slow things down (ripwave afaik). More important though is just pure wireless congestion with your ISP.

my wifi has >1ms from notebook to Router ! Netgear 624T

Steffano2002

Drapper wrote:

my wifi has >1ms from notebook to Router ! Netgear 624T

You mean <1ms?

Steffano2002

gumboots wrote:

got average of 70ms over 50 pings to call of duty

POst the actual results gumboots! Is the ping regular or up and down? Are there massive spikes?

thetourist

Steffano2002 wrote:

POst the actual results gumboots! Is the ping regular or up and down? Are there massive spikes?

will do it tomorrow, thanks - on bloody nights


ps just set up eircom broadband on a customers crappy old pc - the person prob couldnt tell broadband from dialup and their pings to google was about 50 or something - i nearly cried

Snowbat

Where the gateway is depends on the network implementation. If you run a router at home, your gateway is the router and it should ping < 4ms. If you do not run a router at home, your gateway is located at the ISP's point of presence and considerably higher pings could be normal.

The box that www.google.ie points to can change at times (sometimes to servers located in other countries). Better to ping the IP address listed by other posters to get a fairer comparison. Another factor is large ISPs tend to have better peering arrangements and connectivity with other ISPs. When using a smaller ISP you may see long convoluted routes to some sites where a large ISP would have a more direct route with lower latency. Use traceroute (Linux) or tracert (Windows) to check.

zilog_jones

Ah, I was assuming the gateway was his router/modem/whatever.

Mutant_Fruit

With IBB (and other wireless providers probably), you should have a ping to your ISP's gateway server of definately less than 5ms. With ADSL providers, i think the average ping is about 25-30ms to the ISP's gateway.

With wireless providers, pings to irish servers can be as good as 20-30ms ingame. Of course, with IBB's network in a right state, with (currently) 18% packetloss and horrible pingspikes within their network, don't expect to see smooth gameplay anywhere. ADSL providers typically are about 30ms higher (due to extra latency getting to the ISP's gateway), so you'd expect ingame pings as good as 50-60ms ingame on a good irish server.

A ping to your own router should be <1ms.

thetourist

pings to my router are <1 alright

pings to IBB's gateway are around 50-60 but with spikes

With IBB (and other wireless providers probably), you should have a ping to your ISP's gateway server of definately less than 5ms. With ADSL providers, i think the average ping is about 25-30ms to the ISP's gateway.

i always assumed wireless isp's would have had the higher latency

Use traceroute (Linux) or tracert (Windows) to check.

Tracing route to www.l.google.com [66.249.89.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.2.1
  2    49 ms    65 ms    73 ms  KK02-fe-0-0-1-175-mtnugent.irishbroadband.ie [87
.192.81.33]
  3    60 ms    64 ms    69 ms  LX02-fe-0-0-0-10-ballyoskill.irishbroadband.ie [
83.141.117.94]
  4   106 ms    88 ms    79 ms  LX01-fe-0-0-0-10-portlaoise.irishbroadband.ie [8
3.141.117.110]
  5    99 ms    58 ms    74 ms  DN05-fe-1-3-0-397-esb.irishbroadband.ie [87.192.
233.1]
  6   132 ms    70 ms    79 ms  DN04-as1-0-guinness.irishbroadband.ie [83.141.11
7.1]
  7    88 ms    99 ms    85 ms  DN42-as0-0-ibis-access.irishbroadband.ie [62.231
.52.153]
  8   113 ms    74 ms    73 ms  DN42-ge-0-2-0-50-ibis-gw.irishbroadband.ie [62.2
31.52.157]
  9   143 ms   104 ms   145 ms  lvl3gw.thn.packetexchange.net [212.187.197.193]

 10    74 ms    76 ms   103 ms  so-1-3-0.gar2.London1.Level3.net [212.113.3.29]

 11   107 ms   129 ms    74 ms  ae-0-54.bbr2.London1.Level3.net [212.187.131.146
]
 12   282 ms   224 ms   205 ms  as-0-0.bbr1.SanJose1.Level3.net [64.159.1.133]
 13   282 ms   215 ms   219 ms  ae-14-55.car4.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.68.123.142]

 14   351 ms   324 ms   357 ms  64.152.102.130
 15   399 ms   369 ms   349 ms  po12-0.cr2.nrt1.asianetcom.net [202.147.50.146]

 16   330 ms   331 ms   343 ms  gi1-0.gw1.nrt4.asianetcom.net [202.147.1.117]
 17   352 ms   365 ms   412 ms  GoogleInc.gw1.nrt4.asianetcom.net [203.192.131.7
0]
 18   362 ms   359 ms   345 ms  216.239.47.54
 19   329 ms   347 ms   335 ms  66.249.89.99

Trace complete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gumboots
got average of 70ms over 50 pings to call of duty
POst the actual results gumboots! Is the ping regular or up and down? Are there massive spikes?

aparantly not as good today !!!!

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\bob and jan>ping -n 25 195.242.236.40

Pinging 195.242.236.40 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=322ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=125ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=110ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=125ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=125ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=146ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=88ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=85ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=77ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=121ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=143ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=85ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=181ms TTL=49
Reply from 195.242.236.40: bytes=32 time=155ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 195.242.236.40:
    Packets: Sent = 25, Received = 25, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 70ms, Maximum = 322ms, Average = 117ms

C:\Documents and Settings\bob and jan>

Steffano2002

gumboots wrote:

2 49 ms 65 ms 73 ms KK02-fe-0-0-1-175-mtnugent.irishbroadband.ie [87
.192.81.33]

I consider that: crap! And your ping test to the Call of Duty server is just atrocious... You couldn't play online with that! Ring IBB (good luck!) and get them to have a look. Have you switched off your antenna lately? Can help... Sometimes... Maybe...

thetourist

Have you switched off your antenna lately?

will try that - i suppose it's just switching off the poe box

do you know what effect the reset switch has on it ???



good job i'm not a gamer ... eh !!!!

Steffano2002

gumboots wrote:

will try that - i suppose it's just switching off the poe box

Indeed

gumboots wrote:

do you know what effect the reset switch has on it ???

No and I never tried to find out either!

gumboots wrote:

good job i'm not a gamer ... eh !!!!

"Lucky you" I guess... I'd be happy with my IBB if I wasn't I guess...

Sparky

i get 10ms to my gateway and 41ms to jolt.co.uk

and 18ms to boards.ie

metro btw

Steffano2002

Sparky-s wrote:

i get 10ms to my gateway and 41ms to jolt.co.uk

and 18ms to boards.ie

metro btw

10ms to Three Rock? Ouch... Are you far from it Sparky-s? Or do you think it's high because of all the problems you are currently encountering with your Metro connection?

Drapper

Steffano2002 wrote:

10ms to Three Rock? Ouch... Are you far from it Sparky-s? Or do you think it's high because of all the problems you are currently encountering with your Metro connection?

steph your an aweful moan !!

Steffano2002

Drapper wrote:

steph your an aweful moan !!

Hell yeah I am! Trying to become a PGM so I am! Life's all about ping! God that sounds sad...

Sparky

Steffano2002 wrote:

10ms to Three Rock? Ouch... Are you far from it Sparky-s? Or do you think it's high because of all the problems you are currently encountering with your Metro connection?

im only in terenure, i nearly had a deinstall yesterday but they said they got it working and thismorning i now have 87% packetloss

Steffano2002

Sparky-s wrote:

im only in terenure, i nearly had a deinstall yesterday but they said they got it working and thismorning i now have 87% packetloss

My God... That's pretty bad... Are they sending out an engineer to re-align the antenna? I'm told these were the only real Metro problems...
If I get Metro installed on Monday, I want it working from the very start! I'm not getting tied down in another contract with another "IBB-like" company... No way :mad:

Sparky

Steffano2002 wrote:

My God... That's pretty bad... Are they sending out an engineer to re-align the antenna? I'm told these were the only real Metro problems...
If I get Metro installed on Monday, I want it working from the very start! I'm not getting tied down in another contract with another "IBB-like" company... No way :mad:

he he, it got realighned and a new CPU box put up there aswell, seems to be ok now, could of been early morning slowdowns.