Is this a string-raise?

Healio

Player1 is on SB (5000), player2 is on BB (10000). Player1 calls the BB, BB states raise, picks up some chips, lays down 10,000 (in 2 x 500 chip), then another 10,000, then another 10,000 and then a 5,000, i.e. not all in one motion. Should the first 10,000 to hit the table be the raise? or because he said raise he can through them in any old way for any old amount?

BigDragon

Healio wrote:

Player1 is on SB (5000), player2 is on BB (10000). Player1 calls the BB, BB states raise, picks up some chips, lays down 10,000 (in 2 x 500 chip), then another 10,000, then another 10,000 and then a 5,000, i.e. not all in one motion. Should the first 10,000 to hit the table be the raise? or because he said raise he can through them in any old way for any old amount?

AFAIR the bet would be 20k (ie a min raise) as he announced 'raise' but string bet. This would be in the Fitz. I have played in games where once raise is announced you do what the hell u want *sigh*.

Rnger

BigDragon wrote:

I have played in games where once raise is announced you do what the hell u want *sigh*.

Thats outreagous!! could you say raise and push... check for a reaction and then play accordingly? withdrawing your allin if its looking well received? Thats what i thought the whole point of string bets is! so you cant gain free information!

alot of !!'s there

Chonaic

Healio wrote:

Player1 is on SB (5000), player2 is on BB (10000). Player1 calls the BB, BB states raise, picks up some chips, lays down 10,000 (in 2 x 500 chip), then another 10,000, then another 10,000 and then a 5,000, i.e. not all in one motion. Should the first 10,000 to hit the table be the raise? or because he said raise he can through them in any old way for any old amount?

Well if he said raise it doesnt matter then if he puts in 10,000 or 100,000, he indicated a raise. The fact he didnt state the amount doesnt matter, player 2 can put in a raise anyway he likes for any amount.

Rnger

Chonaic wrote:

Well if he said raise it doesnt matter then if he puts in 10,000 or 100,000, he indicated a raise. The fact he didnt state the amount doesnt matter, player 2 can put in a raise anyway he likes for any amount.

I disagree. If this is how its done at the WSOP or whatever, I dont think its right. One movement or simply state how much.

padser

Rnger wrote:

Thats outreagous!! could you say raise and push... check for a reaction and then play accordingly? withdrawing your allin if its looking well received? Thats what i thought the whole point of string bets is! so you cant gain free information!

alot of !!'s there

Of course not. If you say raise and put in chips the amount you raise is
a)the min raise or
b)the amount of chips you have put in
*whichever of these is larger.

eg bet is 10k you say 'raise' and put in 15K then you are oblidged to put in another 5K to make it min raise
OR Bet is 10K, you say 'raise' and put in 30K then you are can not take back out 10K

Also in most casino's if you announce 'raise' and pick up a stack of say 5 10K chips you could deposit 3 of them on the felt making the total raise 3K and put the rest of the stack back in your stack, However some tourament operate the rule of 'if it crosses the line its a bet'. Ie putting a chip accross the line is the equivalent to dropping it on the felt.

Thats my understanding of the rules anyway, im subject to contridiction from the more experienced offline players.

Healio

Rnger wrote:

I disagree. If this is how its done at the WSOP or whatever, I dont think its right. One movement or simply state how much.

Thats the way i think it is aswell, the guy said raise and picked up some chips he then just put down two, another two and another two i.e. had avout six two came off the six, then another two, then another two.

bmc

Healio wrote:

Thats the way i think it is aswell, the guy said raise and picked up some chips he then just put down two, another two and another two i.e. had avout six two came off the six, then another two, then another two.

Declaring a raise is all well and good. Now we know you are going to raise.

We don't know how much by though and that has to ruled upon. You cannot just start putting chips in bit by bit. If you declare the SIZE of your raise fine - count it out in tens if you like. If you don't declare the size of your raise then you have to be careful. The first movement (onto the felt, across the line, into your hand, whatever the house rule is) of chips decides.

If you don't put in enough chips to meet the minimum raise in the first movement but you have declared a raise then it is a minimum raise. If you have put in enough or more than enough for a minimum raise in that first movement then the raise stands at that amount.

If you have not declared a raise - If the first movement of chips is less than a minimum raise then it is a call! (In the Fitz, if you put in ONE chip no matter what size it is without a declaration, it is also a call). If your first movement is enough to be a minimum raise or more, (and in the Fitz - is more than one chip) then it stands as a raise.

5starpool

I made a point of this in the Fitz one night when a player said 'raise' and then pushed one stack at a time over the line.

Someone said surely a string bet, but was told by the dealer 'no, he said raise, he can do what he likes'. I asked for a ruling and Liz came over and agreed with the dealer, then she talked to Luke (I wish he had come over to the table in case Liz explained it wrong), came back and said he can do what he likes. That irritated the hell out of me. I wasn't even in the hand. Surely the word 'raise' does not give you carte blanche to do what you want. Some dealers do it one way, others another.

Personally, I usually say the amount clearly first, or else bang a pile in together. I know most string bets are unintentional, and players aren't even looking to get a reaction most of the times, they just don't know any better or have the common affliction of having to be told over and over and over again (another pet hate, these things are common sense once told).

kickintheteeth

BigDragon wrote:

AFAIR the bet would be 20k (ie a min raise) as he announced 'raise' but string bet. This would be in the Fitz. I have played in games where once raise is announced you do what the hell u want *sigh*.

when i was in vegas this summer in the mgm, this exact thing happened, i raised, and another guy said riase, putting a pile to the side on the line, and then went back to his chips another two times and then pushed them in, i said string betting, and the dealer its ok cause he said raise!

as far as im concerned thats string betting, definately..

Rnger

thats a tell too would you stop him if you held the nuts?

kickintheteeth

Rnger wrote:

thats a tell too would you stop him if you held the nuts?

ha, i did have the nuts, ace high flush, he had Q high, needed both hole cards, in 2/5 dollar cash game, for a $1400 pot,
after i said string bet(pretty drunk, and was more pissed off thast he was doing it again, than thinking about the pot, or wat i could win) but turned this around then, making him think i was really pissed, and just went, "right, im all in then(angry voice) he called, turned over the nuts, he couldnt believe it, hehe

ZZR1100

At non-tournament play, a player who says "raise" is allowed to continue putting chips into the pot with more than one move; the wager is assumed complete when the player’s hands come to rest outside the pot area. (This rule is used because nolimit play may require a large number of chips be put into the pot.)
In tournament play, the TDA rules require that the player either use a verbal statement giving the amount of the raise or put the chips into the pot in a single motion, to avoid making a
string-bet.

padser

5starpool wrote:

Surely the word 'raise' does not give you carte blanche to do what you want. Some dealers do it one way, others another.

I think the general practice here is that if you say 'raise' and put 3 stacks in one after another its considered one motion. If you were to for example stop after 2, look up, and then add a third it would be string betting. So in effect saying raise gives you carte blanch only until there is a pause in your motions.