The internet, and the oncoming Revolution

Suaimhneach

I hope this is a good place to post this, because I am looking for some decent discussion! Feel free to move it if there is somewhere more appropriate.

Basically, I've been discussing and think about this a lot recently, and the opportunity as arrived for me to do an article on the peice. I'd just like to get some of your opinions!

I've spoken to some boardsies before about it, and they had a lot to say, so I hope yer the same.

So, the internet, and the oncoming revolution. What I mean by that is the simplest of things to the most complex. How the Internet is effecting the worlds economy. How terrorist use it to post messages/footage. How it's not really governed by anyone. How with VoIP we will be able to communitcate FOR FREE once everyone has Broadband. How most of Ireland is BroadBand capable [this was someone else's argument], but how they don't "turn it on" because then the people have that freedom.

What the internet represents and such, for the future.

WizZard

Jesjes wrote:

How most of Ireland is BroadBand capable [this was someone else's argument], but how they don't "turn it on" because then the people have that freedom.

Conspiracy Theories is better suited if that's the type of thing you wish to discuss.

It's for purely commercial reasons that more exchanges in Ireland are not unbundled/broadband enabled.

Suaimhneach

I'm lookin' to write an article on what people think, if they have theories, be they conspiracy or otherwise, I'm interested.

Personally, I do think that they have that ability. They just won't. It'd shock the system.

What do you mean by commercial, can you further what you mean?

Gurgle

Jesjes wrote:

the oncoming revolution.

OH NO!
Theres a revolution coming :eek:
I better go restock my Y2K bunker!

Oriel

Did you know Google is banned in China?
I guess it doesn't want it's people to learn anything, just work for the state.

Khannie

Gurgle wrote:

OH NO!
Theres a revolution coming :eek:
I better go restock my Y2K bunker!

ROFL. HAHAHAHA. Just the other day I was wondering if the Y2K doomsayers have finally admitted that they were talking through their holes and shut up.

Honestly: The revolution has already happened. It started (in earnest) around 1994 and ended (in earnest) around 2000. Not much has changed since then IMO. You'll still have to pay for broadband, so VOIP isn't free. In fact, my telecomms provider gets more cash out of me now than ever before.

What I'm waiting for is the proliferation of semi-autonomous machines based on the new always on GPS satellites that europe are planning to put into orbit over the coming years. Now that represents an opportunity to really change things. I reckon I should have a car that drives me within 30 years or so.

Suaimhneach

That another interesting take on it, that the revolution has been and gone.

Gurgle, any level of maturity would be appricated

Sinecurea, I did know that, and I think it's very interesting. Google are obviously to the forefront of everything internet related, which is quite cool, cuz they are a good company.

WizZard

Khannie wrote:

What I'm waiting for is the proliferation of semi-autonomous machines

I read that as semi-automatic weapons :eek:

WizZard

Jesjes wrote:

What do you mean by commercial, can you further what you mean?

Yes.

In a nutshell, ISDN/dial-up is extremely lucrative for telecoms companies.
It costs money to enable an exchange. Most people (not the vast majority, just most) live near a large urban area therefore these areas are enabled for broadband due to a high percantage of demand.

More info in the Ireland Offline forum.

Suaimhneach

Excatly, that's what I meant when "conspiracy" theories were mentioned. How can they make money off us, the people? By keeping the things that make life cheaper away from us!

I do surveys, as part time work, yeh yeah, I am horrible. However a certain company that supplies land line, and internet, recently bought a mobile company. They were researching the market in terms of offering all three at a cheaper price, and fair play. However, they were offering a VoIP at a "cheaper rate" as opposed to totally free. They are talking about the software and right to use it, I guess.

It's all about marketability for those guys.

Khannie

WizZard wrote:

I read that as semi-automatic weapons :eek:

Could be the same thing. We could already be in the matrix.

jesjes: Why do you say that about google? What makes you think they're a good company? That perception is widespread among the public in my experience, though there seems to be little evidence to support the notion. They are widely regarded as an excellent company to work for, and with good reason, but beyond that their motives are, at best, unknown.

China has always restricted internet access. It has had lots of high profile internet cafe closures in the past. The google thing was because of their page caching AFAIK.

WizZard

Jesjes wrote:

It's all about marketability for those guys.

Well, it's all about marketability unless you are a charity, and even then it's a fairly grey area...
It is a commercial world, i.e. money talks.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Somewhere, someone is paying.

Gurgle

Jesjes wrote:

They were researching the market in terms of offering all three at a cheaper price, and fair play. However, they were offering a VoIP at a "cheaper rate" as opposed to totally free.

Name one company that offers a service of any kind for nothing.

As for my maturity - are you talking in terms of terrorism or technology ?
The technology revolution has been and gone, did you miss it ?
The other type is a figment of scaremongering xenophobes' imaginations.

Suaimhneach

Gurgle, ye just kinda underminded my post when I'd made a bit of an effort to have it non-spammy.

Khainne, I think that of goggle, because I've read and seen their work ethic. Because I also have some v.good mates who work for them in their base in Dublin and because, they have the right attitude, as fair as I can tell.

"It is a commercial world, i.e. money talks." - absolutely, so are they keeping technology from us in order to make money from us... yes... no?

WizZard

Jesjes wrote:

"It is a commercial world, i.e. money talks." - absolutely, so are they keeping technology from us in order to make money from us... yes... no?

I don't think anybody would deny that. (When they = commercial interest/company)

Calling it a conspiracy, or expecting a revolution make you seem a little over-excitable though.

Gurgle

Jesjes wrote:

so are they keeping technology from us in order to make money from us... yes... no?

Yes, without a doubt.
Its standard marketing practice, and good business sense.

You have to keep a product in the market long enough to pay for the original development costs, and the tooling up for production. You also have to be planning a couple of steps ahead.

If you have the next generation on a shelf, you keep it there until either:
a) the current generation has yielded all the profit it will
or
b) someone else looks like they're going to beat you to market with the next generation and skim the market before you get in there

Example:
Video-link mobiles are the last time you'll get a 'reason' to throw away a perfectly good mobile phone and spend €300+ on a new one.

And yet the tech end of that was ready to go 4-5 years ago.
Why didn't they come out then ?

Becuase 'they' reckoned they could sell you a phone with games on it, then one with polyphonic sounds, one with a colour LCD screen, one with java games, one with a camera, one with two cameras, one with a video camera, and finally a live videophone.

Of course there'll be more to come - bigger screens, longer battery life etc etc but theres nothing new to do is there ?

Now imagine this phone came out 5 years ago, with all the features.
If you bought one then, you would still be using it.
Thats no good!


tbh, i can't see voip ever becoming standard, but as another alternative it will be a factor that helps drive down costs for mobiles and fixed lines.(eventually)

maidhc

Khannie wrote:

ROFL. HAHAHAHA. Just the other day I was wondering if the Y2K doomsayers have finally admitted that they were talking through their holes and shut up.

Either that or they made so much noise that the problems were actually fixed before 2000... But yeah, it was hyped.

The revolution has come and gone alright. Do a google for anon.penet.fi, XS4ALL and the Scientologists, and Napster if you want to learn about it.

Google scare the sh1t out of me to be honest. No one company should be able to get too much control of the internet.

{EDIT} JUst realised I wrote "do a google". There is some sort of irony in there somewhere.

Balfa

Jesjes wrote:

Google are obviously to the forefront of everything internet related, which is quite cool, cuz they are a good company.

What's your definition of "good"? Yeah, they're commercially very successful, but I prefer to think of "good" as morally just. Something which google are nowhere near. In, of course, my opinion.

Suaimhneach

I didn't call it a conspiracy, someone else did, I just used their terminology thereafter. I amn't in the least bit excitable right now... trust me. However, I do love a good debate or conversaton when it gets going on this topic.

Balfa, why would you think google were not morally just? Afaik, they have a very good work ethic and adhere to it at all times.

I think you guys are only working from the point of view of the revolution, that yes has been and gone, but I'm thinkin' there is *so* much more to come.

You guys are also missing the broader subject message that I had "How the Internet is effecting the worlds economy. How terrorist use it to post messages/footage. How it's not really governed by anyone."

How the Internet is effecting the worlds economy. - Buying online, downloading. Businesses catching up with their websites.

How terrorist use it to post messages/footage. - To put their message to the world.

How it's not really governed by anyone. - I know america has "rights" over it, but they can't *really* own it all. I know they can moniter etc, but that's different.

It's not just in terms of technology. But what the internet means. IRC for example, you be Best Buddies and live on opposite sides of the planet!

Also, from that, in terms of relationships, now I've never had an internet relationship or been with someone I didnt know in real life before hand, that being besides the point, how is it effecting us socally? I mean, a lot of people discredit it. I'd be for accepting it more openly, whats the difference between texting a girl you like and talking to her in PM, besides that PM is more involved?

Anyway, if this is *jsut* a tech forum, my bad. Otherwise, I'm speaking in much bigger terms here.

Balfa

Jesjes wrote:

Balfa, why would you think google were not morally just? Afaik, they have a very good work ethic and adhere to it at all times.

Why would you think they have a very good work ethic and adhere to it at all times?

Balfa

Jesjes wrote:

Balfa, why would you think google were not morally just?

http://www.google-watch.org/

MrPinK

The internet has already peaked alright, it's all downhill from here. Soon it'll just consist of millions upon millions of blogs, none of which will ever be read by anyone.

7aken

the next big thing for the internet is ipv6. check it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6

we are currently using ipv4, which has limitations, see below

taken from wikipedia:

IPv4 supports 4.2 billion (2564 ≈ 4.294 × 109) addresses, which is inadequate for giving even one address to every living person, much less support the burgeoning market for connective devices. IPv6 addresses fix this problem by supporting 340 undecillion (655368 ≈ 3.4 × 1038) addresses. For scale, this would allow an average of about 430 quintillion (4.3 × 1020) unique addresses per square inch, or 670 quadrillion (6.7 × 1017) per square millimeter, of the Earth's surface. In other terms, assuming a population of about 6.5 billion humans, there are enough IPv6 addresses such that every atom of every person on Earth could be assigned 7 unique addresses with enough to spare (assuming 7 × 1027 atoms per human).

thats gota have massive implications on communications. imagine assigning every utility in your house with an ip address, amazing

Gurgle

MrPinK wrote:

The internet has already peaked alright, it's all downhill from here. Soon it'll just consist of millions upon millions of blogs, none of which will ever be read by anyone.

Dont forget the advertisements and pornography.