Trading opportunities in Ireland

Running Bing

Bit of a tricky one here. Just wondering if anybody has any experience/knows anything about trading in ireland. Im currently very interested in working in trading( not sure what type yet) for an investment bank( morgan stanley, goldman, lehman paces like that:rolleyes:wishful thinking )but most of the opportunities are in london. Id rather stay at home so was just wondering what sort of trading opprtunities exist in ireland and what are the firms like. Any info on this (trading in ireland or on the job itself more generally) is much appreciated as i cant seem to find much useful info on the web and im kind of a newbie. Thanks.

homeOwner

AFAIK, the international banks like the ones you mention do their european trading from london. They have outposts here but they only do fund administration. Davy stockbrockers, NCB and the main irish banks (AIB & BOI, ulster bank?) do trading from Ireland but good luck getting a job unless you know someone in the business who will get you in, daddy is v.v. rich or unless you are an absolute wizz and somehow get an interview and wow them with your abilities. Its not impossible but its v.v. difficult to get into it over here.

Best bet is to go to London or NY and try to get experience there. The big banks have grad training programs which you could apply for but without having done an internship program with a similar bank while at college you dont have a good chance of getting into their grad program.

There are also outfits in dublin that are privately owned and trade the NY stock exchange. They work from 2pm - 9pm and use mostly their own money giving a % back to the owner who gives them office space. You need a substantial amount of money to buy into this type of operation and you need to know who is running them. I know someone who did it for a year (with Daddy's money) and then left to take up a proper job because he didnt earn much more than mimimum wage over the whole year when you averaged out his winnings and losses. But good luck finding out who they are and where they operate from.

Its an up hill battle but if you have talent and ability and a bit of luck, it is possible to get in.

Good luck.

Running Bing

I thought it would have been easier to get into firms like davy,ncb, ulster bank and stuff than the big ibs in London. Unfortuneately I dont have a "daddy" just a father and I know no one in the industry so I guess ill have to focus on trying to get something in London. Thanks.

onedmc

You might as well forget about it, there are very few jobs in trading in Ireland and to get in youll have to have spent some time in the middle of the action (London, New York, Tokyo, Frankfurt).

Anyway, if your serious about a career in this area then you'd be dying to get the experience in the main trading sites.

homeOwner

Babybing wrote:

I thought it would have been easier to get into firms like davy,ncb, ulster bank and stuff than the big ibs in London. Unfortuneately I dont have a "daddy" just a father and I know no one in the industry so I guess ill have to focus on trying to get something in London. Thanks.

In trading, there is more oppertunity for someone who has talent and ability to get in the door overseas than here where it is practically a closed shop.

Only really, really rich people have a "daddy", the rest of us have a father.

Running Bing

onedmc wrote:

Anyway, if your serious about a career in this area then you'd be dying to get the experience in the main trading sites.

To be perfectly honest onedmc I am dying to work in places like London or New York(for good not just experience) and I can assure you I am very very serious about this and willing to do whatever it takes. I was enquiring about trading positions in Ireland moreso for something to fall back if I didnt get anything abroad as I thought, wrongly it turns out, it may be easier to land a job here. I just didnt want to put it like that for fear of coming across as elitist which now that I think about it was quite foolish:o

homeOwner

Can I ask why you want to go into trading? You seem to have your mind set on it without knowing much about how the industry operates, ie how to get in the door, how to get started, how the big banks hire peple etc...

I dont know if you have read the books that one usually reads when interested in that industry (Liars Poker being one of them) but unless you are a person of a certain personality and are very aggressive and really, really, really like the challange of playing with the big boys (or the small boys depending on your point of view) then you are heading for a world of frustration and unfulfillment.

The only reason I am asking is because it looks glamourous (spelling??) and exciting from the outside but the reality is very different. I worked on Wall Street for 4 years, not in trading but in a support department and I saw first hand the type of people that do this job and honestly you would have to be very driven to persue it especially when they cards are stacked against you.

What degree are you doing? How many years have you left before you graduate?

Running Bing

Well i know a lot about the process for the big investment banks in London(Internships, assessment centres, multiple stressful interviews etc, etc,) but I was having a bit of difficulty finding info about such a career in Ireland or other opportunities away from the big Ib's such as hedge funds (which i was looking for mainly to keep my options open). Im in the second year of a four year economics degree.

Ive read all the usual books(liars poker, monkey business, ugly americans, fiasco, barbarians at the gate etc.) and done a fair bit of internet research and I feel I have a good understanding of the industry.(although I would never think I was highly knowlegeable about the industry without having worked there)

Im also aware of the often horrendous 100+ working hours, high failure rate, and huge stress about maintaining a positive account and large amount of fireings and stuff like that and I fully realise its not the glamorous "snort coke of a supermodels chest in the back of my ferrari" lifestyle many think it is.


I can assure you im not looking to get into it for the glamour( or just for the money either)

What it boils down to homeowner is I dont want a career where i sit in an office from 9-5 doing work that is neither challenging or stimulating. I want a career that requires a high commitment level but with high rewards, is fast paced and constantly changing and requires real knowledge and talent. Add to that my interest in economics and the markets and I think its a good career for me. There just doesnt seem to be anything else out there that interests me after college.



Sorry about the long post but im just saying my original post was about trading opportunities in ireland which I was(for reasons that are now clear thanks to yourself) having trouble finding info on. Thanks for the interest anyway homeowner.

finlma

I worked in an investment bank in London for 2 years and hated it. I was only in IT but still had to work long hours. The traders were obnoxous, under huge stress and working ridiculous hours. Why anyone would want to get into it is beyond me unless you love money that much. Become a professional gambler instead - more exciting and basically the same.

Running Bing

lol That was another thing I was considering becomming a professional poker player:D

I would consider neither gambling.

homeOwner

Babybing wrote:

What it boils down to homeowner is I dont want a career where i sit in an office from 9-5 doing work that is neither challenging or stimulating. I want a career that requires a high commitment level but with high rewards, is fast paced and constantly changing and requires real knowledge and talent. Add to that my interest in economics and the markets and I think its a good career for me. There just doesnt seem to be anything else out there that interests me after college.

Thats fair enough and if you want it badly enough you will make it happen for yourself. The best of luck with it.

chump

Babybing wrote:

What it boils down to homeowner is I dont want a career where i sit in an office from 9-5 doing work that is neither challenging or stimulating. I want a career that requires a high commitment level but with high rewards, is fast paced and constantly changing and requires real knowledge and talent.

So are you saying that your options are either
1. Get into trading, or
2. Get a career where i sit in an office from 9-5 doing work that is neither challenging or stimulating

?

If you think they're your only options you're well off the mark

AARRRGH

Apply to http://www.geneva-trading.com

Just make sure your CV is full of athletic and sports accomplishments (sp???)

I was at a party in the managing directors apartment beside trinity. Total bunch of knobheads, but half of them are totally loaded. You work heavily on commission.

If you apply, seriously make yourself out to be an uber-competitive athlete (can't stress this enough.)

jrey1981

I thought about applying to Geneva Trading some time ago as an information analyst...I doubt I would have stood a chance!

I am familiar with the mentality as I have spoken to people in a similar business I have worked in - you are either one of them or you are not...

A very interesting thread, by the way. I will have to get round to reading some of the books mentioned.

Running Bing

liars poker is an excellent read and monkey business is hilarious even if you have no interest at all in banking jrey.

Geneva is a propriety trading firm which I get the impression from discussions on the net is knda dodgy(not geneva specifically but proprity trading in general). I dont think you get a salardy only a draw of a certain amount which you must make more than. Currently trying to learn more about this.

And chump that couldnt be further from the truth. Im sure theres many jobs out there that are very challenging and require constant professional development(engineering, medicine, science to name but a few)but I havent seen much else out there that interests me or that I personally would find stimulating(or that im qualified for). I was commenting on the opportunities facing me not jobs in general. Also its early days yet and i've only recently started thinking seriously about my career and I have a lot to learn.

AARRRGH

In Geneva you do get a salary. It's basically the same salary as working in a shop. But after 2 - 3 years there you can make a lot of money.

Extremely arrogant ****ers though. I couldn't work there. They'd stab you in the back in a second. Know the type?

Running Bing

dublindude wrote:

In Geneva you do get a salary. It's basically the same salary as working in a shop. But after 2 - 3 years there you can make a lot of money.

Extremely arrogant ****ers though. I couldn't work there. They'd stab you in the back in a second. Know the type?

lol I thought that was all exageratted about them being ar*eholes. Ive never actually met a trader before.

I am interested in geneva and and thats definately an option ill keep open. thats very positive about the salary also. Im gonna do a bit more research on them.

finlma

Babybing wrote:

lol I thought that was all exageratted about them being ar*eholes. Ive never actually met a trader before.

I had to deal with them on a daily basis and the majority are ignorant, self-centred w@nkers. Not a female amongst them either - very male dominated.

tommyboo

can someone tell me how to start a new thread??? iv nothing to do at work so i joined this site, sorry for interrupting this by the way!!

therecklessone

Newbie/FAQ forum

Have a read.

jrey1981

Babybing wrote:

liars poker is an excellent read and monkey business is hilarious even if you have no interest at all in banking jrey.

Thanks, will put them on my Christmas list...