Teachers Shopping Days.

fatboypee

This should probably be in get-it-off-ya chest but WTF is the In-Service Day thing all about ?

Forget the budget, its beyond me how anybody can plan around teachers shopping days and easy lives ??? even the hecking parent teacher meetings are in school time !!???

humph. :mad: .....

Nala

Well my dad is a techer and a lot of his work is outside school time- correcting homeworks etc is all done in his own time.

fatboypee

I'm not decrying that, just making the point that not all teachers work hard. Primary especially. My wife child minds for two teachers, both don't roll into school till gone nine ("ooops I slept it out" a prevalent excuse) and arrive back home no later than four. Why then, do they need in-service days ?

Private sector workers trying to earn a crust work alot harder and alot longer for far fewer perks......

KdjaCL

fatboypee wrote:

This should probably be in get-it-off-ya chest but WTF is the In-Service Day thing all about ?

Forget the budget, its beyond me how anybody can plan around teachers shopping days and easy lives ??? even the hecking parent teacher meetings are in school time !!???

humph. :mad: .....

At the start of the school year you get a list of 21 in service days if you read that and kept it you could plan it very easily. They also give notes a week before as obviously you forgot what days they are on. Your child is in school so why shouldnt the meetings be in school during school hours?

Would you mind for 20 4 year olds for 25k a year?

kdjac

ronbyrne2005

teachers are on much more than 25k and theres allowances and 3 months paid holidays ! they are overpaid and underworked

fatboypee

KdjaC wrote:

At the start of the school year you get a list of 21 in service days if you read that and kept it you could plan it very easily. They also give notes a week before as obviously you forgot what days they are on. Your child is in school so why shouldnt the meetings be in school during school hours?

Would you mind for 20 4 year olds for 25k a year?

kdjac

I would do it actually if I could afford to. 25k a year starting, it gets better over time, 3+ months off per year, 9.15 (ish) till half three (pretty much half day in reality).

The In-Service days are not really the issue as much as their flexibility. If both parents are working in reasonably good jobs and little jonny is in primary, you get notice a week (in my case four days last week) of TWO in-service days in the one week, one day apart, what do they do ? I'm furtunate enough that my wife does not need to work full-time, alot of parents are not so lucky.

lodgepole

Anybody who thinks that a teacher's work hours start and end in the school carpark have obviously never taught a day in their life. Even the worst teachers put work in after hours whether it's planning work or correcting work. To say they are underpaid is ludicrous, given the current state of some of them. Cut the wage based on their holidays and apparent "half days" and you remove the concept of the full time teacher. Bye bye good education system.

fatboypee

I know their work doesn't always end there. And alot of them work very hard. but its still difficult to dismiss the low 'working hours' and long holidays for a few extra-curricular hours marking or setting up coursework. Especially contrasted to many an average joe's day in the private sector.

As for good education system try underfunded, semi-archaic yet well intentioned and caring. Fits better I'd say.

lodgepole

fatboypee wrote:

I know their work doesn't always end there. And alot of them work very hard. but its still difficult to dismiss the low 'working hours' and long holidays for a few extra-curricular hours marking or setting up coursework. Especially contrasted to many an average joe's day in the private sector.

It's more than a few extra hours. It's a few hours for every day of teaching for a decent teacher. The real problem is that there are too many brutal teachers who don't put the work in. The solution to the teaching problem in this country isn't to villify them for their shortcomings but to help remove those shortcomings. Teachers are civil servants and can't easily be fired, least of all for not being good at their job. That has to change. Cutting pay and downplaying the work that goes into education will only help downgrade what good teachers we have.

As for good education system try underfunded, semi-archaic yet well intentioned and caring. Fits better I'd say.

Relatively speaking we have an excellent education system. Our post-primary education has problems (mentioned above) and our post-secondary suffers from lack of choice and a slightly unfair grading system, but we're doing alright.

beanyb

Obviously you misunderstand what an in-service day is. They're training days, not days off for the teachers. It's to allow to train them in the new curriculum or other changes. They can actually be quite important. So while your child might have a day off, the teacher does not have a 'shopping day.'

angeldelight

Do you know what an in-service day is? The children aren't in school but the teachers are either in school or are somewhere else getting trained on the curriculum, changes to the curriculum, new ways of teaching it. Would you prefer if they just kept teaching what was taught to them when they were in college, who cares if that's 5 years out of date..? Most of the time these courses run longer than the normal school day, e.g. they may not finish until 4 or 5 o'clock so actually they're in for longer on those days, not off shopping! You could at least find out what it is you're complaining about before you start making stuff up. Also, the dates are only partially chosen by the schools, they have to fit in with the people giving the courses.

Apart from that, yes they have short working hours and good summer holidays....... but if you were suddenly told your 5 year old, or even your 12 year old was going to be in school from 9am-5pm 5 days a week with 21 days holidays in the year how happy would you be? They can only teach when the children are there. And yes they do spend an extraordinary amount of time planning lessons, ways of making them more interesting, correcting things, planning trips etc as well as actually having to control and teach 20+ children....

And nope I'm not a teacher

Evac101

In-service days can also be training days for the newer tools used within schools, particularly student information management systems and timetabling software. I work as support on the prevalent product used for these purposes and, god bless them, they do need the training in the main to allow them to provide the best possible education, given resources and restrictions, that they can to your kids.

KerranJast

I think its hilarious that parents get all worked up with the hassle of minding their little darlings for a day when the teachers are upskilling (something which goes on in the private sector all the time). Imagine having to manage 30 of them for 160 odd days of the year. No wonder teachers have longer holidays than most.

Pjays

Teaching is by far one of the most difficult professions. I'd like to see some of those people who constantly put down teachers go in and teach a difficult 2nd year class or any class any time of the day. The work that goes into planning lessons, preparing practicals and then the external side of school life such as plays etc... can be extremely stressful. The holidays received are deserved for most. In service days are fundamental to the development of the curriculum in all subjects and ensuring teachers are clued up with the syllabi and especially with how to implement non written assessements such as the leaving cert practical booklet in home ec and the junior cret written journal for religion and cspe

fatboypee

heeeheeeheeeeheeeeheeee.... sorry, the words upskilling and 'training' heeeeheeeeeheeeeheeee..

the thread title implies my opinion of inservice days. I have been privvy to some of what goes on with in service days and it cannot be described as upskilling or training. There is no professional tutelage employed that I have seen, there is nothing 'formal' or corrective in these days that I have seen. Simply the getting together of the staff for management and strategy meetings primarilly.

Yes, teachers are public servants, hence they in theory ought to be accountable to us, the public. Do we see any major ongoing benefits from such days ? Do we note any new strategies emanating from these days ??

Again I re-iterate I have no issue with in-service days per-say, just the management of their timing and the lack of transparency ! And again I re-iterate the question, what do people do when these days are dropped on you out of the blue, sometimes a week's notice is insufficient. And more to the point, if they're training days etc, then why can they not be better scheduled ? As, in the private sector, most "Training" is planned, if training they are...

FBP.

KerranJast

fatboypee wrote:

And again I re-iterate the question, what do people do when these days are dropped on you out of the blue, sometimes a week's notice is insufficient. And more to the point, if they're training days etc, then why can they not be better scheduled ? As, in the private sector, most "Training" is planned, if training they are...

FBP.

In my experience once teachers find out they have an inservice day, its communicated to the parents asap. So if you have only been given a weeks notice, then the teachers are in the same boat. They have lives outside of work too, probably with kids as well so they'll have to organise someone to watch their kids while they're training (especially if it goes on until late.) They should be better planned but its the fault of the Department of Education or the boards of management (which include parents respresentatives I believe) not individual teachers that they aren't. BTW I'm in IT not a teacher.

fatboypee

KerranJast wrote:

In my experience once teachers find out they have an inservice day, its communicated to the parents asap. So if you have only been given a weeks notice, then the teachers are in the same boat. They have lives outside of work too, probably with kids as well so they'll have to organise someone to watch their kids while they're training (especially if it goes on until late.) They should be better planned but its the fault of the Department of Education or the boards of management (which include parents respresentatives I believe) not individual teachers that they aren't. BTW I'm in IT not a teacher.

I totally agree. I'm not blaming teachers I'm simply railling against the expectation that the parents must conform to short notice etc. Indicative of this fact is that at primary level the parent-teacher meetings are during school hours !??! making it very difficult to attend.

magpie

1) ALL jobs (above Burger King level) require people to put in work outside their scheduled hours. There's no such thing as a 9-5 (or 8.45 to 3.30 as the case may be :rolleyes: ). Also, how many teachers work every single lesson every day of the week? Surely they could be marking homework instead of drinking tea and bitching in the staff room?

2) Teachers start on €25k for working 160 days a year. Given that most people only get 20 days holidays + 7 public holidays Pro rata this puts teachers on at least €35k to start

3) Teachers are allowed to work in other jobs during their holidays - grinds etc, which is a nice little top-up to their salary

4) Many teachers give grinds during term time (which they wouldn't have to if the profession as a whole was any use at their jobs), again another nice little nixer.

I can see no reason why any teacher, who could be arsed working the same amount of days per year as the rest of us have to, couldn't earn €60-70k easily. Then again they're a pack of whiners with no grasp of reality.

And spare us the "I'd like to see you teach a class of 200 juvenile delinquents" argument. Presumably you went into teaching since you like teaching, or at least have an interest in education? Personally I can't think of anything worse, which is why I didn't train to be a teacher.

Don't like the money/conditions? Get a job elsewhere, if you can.

Those who can do, those who can't teach.

lodgepole

magpie wrote:

1) ALL jobs (above Burger King level) require people to put in work outside their scheduled hours. There's no such thing as a 9-5 (or 8.45 to 3.30 as the case may be :rolleyes: )

No they don't.

2) Teachers start on €25k for working 160 days a year. Given that most people only get 20 days holidays + 7 public holidays Pro rata this puts teachers on at least €35k to start

3) Teachers are allowed to work in other jobs during their holidays - grinds etc, which is a nice little top-up to their salary

You've included the basis of number 3 in number 2. If a teacher can find temporary work during the summer break (and many can) they can supplement their wage to a more acceptable level. Given that most teachers spend a month prior to September the 1st preparing their courses for the coming year, and that most will take a two week holiday, it's really only a month and a half that they are free to take up alternative employment.

4) Many teachers give grinds during term time (which they wouldn't have to if the profession as a whole was any use at their jobs), again another nice little nixer.

What's wrong with nixers? Nixers are commonplace in many professions. It's not like grinds are free money... They're an assload of work.

I can see no reason why any teacher, who could be arsed working the same amount of days per year as the rest of us have to, couldn't earn €60-70k easily. Then again they're a pack of whiners with no grasp of reality.

And spare us the "I'd like to see you teach a class of 200 juvenile delinquents" argument. Presumably you went into teaching since you like teaching, or at least have an interest in education? Personally I can't think of anything worse, which is why I didn't train to be a teacher.

Don't like the money/conditions? Get a job elsewhere, if you can.

Those who can do, those who can't teach.

That's an ignorant view of our country's educators. They're far more essential to us than many people in the private sector but they are disrespected far more. If a teacher can earn a high wage by working hard over the year then so be it. I know people working freelance who earn a lot more than €60-70k and do far less important work. Enjoying teaching doesn't suddenly make it a simple job. It's a ****ing hard job. And if we want good teachers we have to be willing to give good rewards. Our education and our children's education depends on it.

And i'm also not a teacher.

spurious

'In-service day' is often a term used for days which are not inservice at all. There is no real merit in telling parents EXACTLY what the staff will be doing as most of them will not understand the terms, and the usual suspects will use it as an excuse to moan about teachers' holidays etc..

Under the new Education Act, each school and each subject has to have a School/Subject development plan, updated frequently throughout the year. Now some schools might have more than 20 different subjects on offer and they all need a plan completed and updated.

Then there are IEPs (Individual Education Plans) which have to be completed for individual students, and IBPs (Individual Behaviour Plans) for others. Some schools may have up to 80 or 90 students on these, and they are really quite difficult and detailed and have to be completed at regular intervals for each child, allowing for that child's difficulties and available supports.

But by all means, let's have schools which have not changed in 30 years, let's put the kids with difficulties at the back of the class paring pencils, lets all have such a doss job and be paid loads for it. We won't need to have inservice, staff development, subject development or learning support meetings and the world will be a happier place.

I look forward to the influx of all these computer chair teaching experts into the profession.

magpie

No they don't.

You want a good salary? You have to put in the hours. Simple.

most teachers spend a month prior to September the 1st preparing their courses for the coming year

The first year they work maybe, after that they repeat, repeat, repeat the same sh1te year-in, year-out. You obviously never went to school in this country and experienced the disinterested regurgitation of 20-year-old notes that passes for teaching.

It's not like grinds are free money... They're an assload of work.

True, and teachers don't like work. You didn't answer my point about if teachers are so great, why do we even need grinds?

And if we want good teachers we have to be willing to give good rewards.

I agree, if you're talking about attracting people with 1st Class Honours degrees and high levels of motivation into the profession by all means offer them €70 per year to teach.

Suddenly paying the teachers we have at the moment more money won't make them any better now will it?

fatboypee

spurious wrote:

'In-service day' is often a term used for days which are not inservice at all. There is no real merit in telling parents EXACTLY what the staff will be doing as most of them will not understand the terms, and the usual suspects will use it as an excuse to moan about teachers' holidays etc..

Under the new Education Act, each school and each subject has to have a School/Subject development plan, updated frequently throughout the year. Now some schools might have more than 20 different subjects on offer and they all need a plan completed and updated.

Then there are IEPs (Individual Education Plans) which have to be completed for individual students, and IBPs (Individual Behaviour Plans) for others. Some schools may have up to 80 or 90 students on these, and they are really quite difficult and detailed and have to be completed at regular intervals for each child, allowing for that child's difficulties and available supports.

But by all means, let's have schools which have not changed in 30 years, let's put the kids with difficulties at the back of the class paring pencils, lets all have such a doss job and be paid loads for it. We won't need to have inservice, staff development, subject development or learning support meetings and the world will be a happier place.

I look forward to the influx of all these computer chair teaching experts into the profession.

Now I AM Confused ? WTF are the hours AFTER 3.30 for then ? Oh thats right, alll that planning and provision to do.... no time for an odd 'staff meeting' eh...

Nobody is denying the usefulness of inservice days, in moderation and PLANNED. It also smacks of pure arrogance and (it must be said) indicates a perception of underlying condescension towards parents of children to assume they're all to thick to understand terminology adopting a "So lets not bother the poor souls with such heady information :rolleyes: " !!

The final point is amusing to me: the assumption because an act has been passed that is a correct method of doing something. And the parents are supposed to not understand ??? heeheeheee.... :rolleyes:

spurious

Magpie, it sounds like you went to a dreadful school. How can you class all schools based on your experience of one?

What makes you think there are not people with 1st class honours degrees and Master's degrees in teaching - were there none where you went to school?

Thinking of where I work, about 25% of the staff have Master's degrees and we also have a couple of PhDs. I teach in a VEC school. Perhaps standards are different in religious-owned and run schools.

The courses vary so much year after year (the most recent being the new History and Geography LC courses), only a fool would be using the same notes for decades, and only a badly-run school would allow him/her to.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but please do not judge all schools on the basis of your experience.

spurious

fatboypee wrote:

The final point is amusing to me: the assumption because an act has been passed that is a correct method of doing something. And the parents are supposed to not understand ??? heeheeheee.... :rolleyes:

The Act being passed makes it a legal requirement.
Nothing to do with whether it is the right or wrong thing to do. It's not optional.

Not all parents have the literacy skills and educational levels to understand exactly what is happening at the meetings. Our parent representatives on the BOM are involved in issuing the parent handbook in September which all parents get from our school. The schedule of meetings is outlined in detail at the beginning of the year in the parent handbook - if your child's school does not provide one, perhaps you should ask why not.

Once the meetings have been outlined in that, we just refer to them in notes home as inservice days, even though technically they are not 'inservice'.

lodgepole

magpie wrote:

You want a good salary? You have to put in the hours. Simple.

You said that ALL jobs above Burger King level require additional hours. That isn't true. If you want to really succeed it can be a good idea but it isn't in any way essential for 90% of jobs out there.

The first year they work maybe, after that they repeat, repeat, repeat the same sh1te year-in, year-out. You obviously never went to school in this country and experienced the disinterested regurgitation of 20-year-old notes that passes for teaching.

Not even remotely true. Teachers are shuttled around between different levels and years. What a teacher is teaching changes with each year. The curriculum is also changing, and teachers have to keep on top of that.

Why do you not think I went to school in this country? Perhaps I just went to better schools then you did? I would concur with Spurious it sounds like your experiences have been pretty poor.

True, and teachers don't like work. You didn't answer my point about if teachers are so great, why do we even need grinds?

You can't compare group situations with one on one teaching. Some people need grinds to better themselves, at every level. I had a wonderful maths teacher (a PhD in statistics incidentally) but I needed grinds to help me do as well as I did in higher level (given by anothe PhD). And not all teachers are so great. Look back on an earlier post of mine about them being public servants. We had quite a few teachers who put no effort in and unfortunately we were powerless to hold them accountable.

I agree, if you're talking about attracting people with 1st Class Honours degrees and high levels of motivation into the profession by all means offer them €70 per year to teach.

Suddenly paying the teachers we have at the moment more money won't make them any better now will it?

As spurious said there are already 1st Class Honours Degrees teaching in schools all over Ireland. They earn a good living as teachers, in keeping with the work that (most of them) they put in and the importance of their jobs. I don't think they should be handed more money. I think they should be given a little respect and that their jobs should be given more respect. Some of the sentiment in this thread makes them out to be a crowd of lazy spongers who do no work for their money which is, frankly, a load of my cock.

fatboypee

spurious wrote:

and the usual suspects will use it as an excuse to moan about teachers' holidays etc...

Taking this in context now then, do you not feel that being somewhat 'glossy' nee 'economical' over the content of the inservice days or in fact (god forbid) leaving it to the parent representatives (assumption here being you consider those on the BOM capable of understanding the terminology???) is somewhat making a rod for your own back with regard to your obvious feeling of mis-representation over teacher's holidays etc..?

Just a thought ...:)

magpie

Funny, I went to what is regarded as one of the best schools in the country and my teachers were all apathetic layabouts who insisted on rote-learning of the curriculum in order to maximise exam results. Sure, some of them had masters degrees which they undertook mid-career, but only because they figured out you get paid more if you have one.

I also distinctly remember that none of my teachers had more than about a 1/2 day's worth of lessons per day. I do remember them spending a lot of time hanging around the staff room, showing up late to lessons because they'd just been for a sneaky fag, showing up hung-over to classes and in some memorable cases showing up with a few drinks on board.

My main memory of my teachers was that is was basically up to the pupils to motivate themselves to learn, the teachers were there to painfully drag themselves through the curriculum.

"open your books at P.23 - Now O'Mahony, were did we leave off? Ok, start reading there" - cue staring out window on part of teacher, looking at clock and wondering how long before they could go to the pub.

Maybe things have changed in the last 15 years..... Most of the teachers I had are still teaching though.

watsgone

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

teachers are on much more than 25k and theres allowances and 3 months paid holidays ! they are overpaid and underworked

Its a real job, one of the hardest out there IMO. Teachers work hard most of them do for their pupils and community as well, in very walk of life there are a few bad apples eg nurses,doctors, dare i say priests. In MAJORITY of teachers do the best by their pupils.

Underworked? Lesson plans, classwork, homework, PE, corrections, breaking up fights, having to tell that crazy mother that yes my daring boy have throw the book at the five child old, general draining work with children who want a piece of your time all the time, following up on reports on those kids you havnt seen for weeks etc.

And no I am not a teacher.
But guess what teachers are human too.

lodgepole

That is strange then because I went to one that isn't regarded that highly and didn't experience what you described across the board. There was a considerably higher amount of good teachers. It's hard to ignore the bad teachers though, particularly in Leaving Cert. where a teacher who may only represent 1% of the school's staff represents over 15% of your final grade.

That was seven years ago, so perhaps the eight before that saw significant changes. Maybe it's changed since then too. Or maybe the school you went to didn't deserve its good reputation, I don't know...

Dermington

fatboypee wrote:

This should probably be in get-it-off-ya chest but WTF is the In-Service Day thing all about ?

Forget the budget, its beyond me how anybody can plan around teachers shopping days and easy lives ??? even the hecking parent teacher meetings are in school time !!???

humph. :mad: .....

lol i would love to see your kids exam results :rolleyes:

mad m

Lets not forget teaching doesn't stop in the classroom.From an early age I think its in all of us as parents to make studying fun and easy as possible after school hours.My wife spends alot of time with our kids doing homework with them.And I think it helps them even more when they go back into school after what they have learned the previous day.

When I was growing up this was never the case,and it was harder to pay attention in class the next day on the given subject as I couldnt be bothered.This is also towards getting grinds for kids,as I said maybe we should help our kids more so they find it easier,then no need for grinds.I have strayed off the subject a bit.IMO I think teaching is a hard and stressfull job but at the same time very full filling when they receive the respect they deserve.

Lets not forget the kids in a class room(primary level) have different degrees of ability and unless you are willing to put the work in at home they will fall behind.

Amazotheamazing

"hardest job out there".... come on? How about being a brickie in the middle of a freezing winter, or a deep sea engineer, or junior doctor etc?

Madge

spurious wrote:

'In-service day' is often a term used for days which are not inservice at all. There is no real merit in telling parents EXACTLY what the staff will be doing as most of them will not understand the terms, and the usual suspects will use it as an excuse to moan about teachers' holidays etc

I think most parents would actually want to know exactly what the teachers are doing on these days when they're not in class educating their kids. To not explain what they're at because they think parents wouldn't understand, is pathetic.

spurious wrote:

Then there are IEPs (Individual Education Plans) which have to be completed for individual students, and IBPs (Individual Behaviour Plans) for others. Some schools may have up to 80 or 90 students on these, and they are really quite difficult and detailed and have to be completed at regular intervals for each child, allowing for that child's difficulties and available supports.

I find this hard to believe. Post-primary teachers teach ALOT of children and in different years, and also teach different subjects. I mean they don't even know half the kids names. I had teachers, they knew me to see but some of them didn't even know me on a first name basis :rolleyes:

spurious wrote:

But by all means, let's have schools which have not changed in 30 years, let's put the kids with difficulties at the back of the class paring pencils, lets all have such a doss job and be paid loads for it.

The situation you describe ALREADY exists in some schools. Additionally, you only have to read some of the comments on "rate my teacher" website, to see these many "in-service" days don't appear to be that beneficial for a good majority of teachers.

I was doing my leaving cert the year of the teachers strike :mad: why did they strike a few weeks before the state exams? They could have had the strike during the MANY holdidays they have but no they had to have it then and jeopardise thousands of students' results and thus their future plans.

kippy

If you think it is such a handy number then you know what to do-back to college and get into teaching.
Otherwise, shut it.

Amazotheamazing

It's not that I want to be a teacher, I want teachers to stop whining about how hard they have it. Any job where you can't fired from isn't the "hardest job" in the world.

kippy

Teachers - Stop whining
Everyone else - Stop whining about teachers, you know what to do if you want to be one.

Problem resolved.

Closing Doors

magpie wrote:

and teachers don't like work.

What an amazingly ignorant sweeping generalisation....

Amazotheamazing wrote:

"hardest job out there".... come on? How about being a brickie in the middle of a freezing winter, or a deep sea engineer, or junior doctor etc?

So what a more physically demanding job (brickie) is suddenly harder!? It isn't actually rocket science you know. Junior doctors would be up there, but I've done a spot of part-time guitar teaching (not the same thing by a long shot I know) and on a bad day you'd be driven to the brink of insanity...

...and yes I did actually have to do work outside the hours I was paid for, even for just a small part time job.

simu

kippy wrote:

Teachers - Stop whining
Everyone else - Stop whining about teachers, you know what to do if you want to be one.

Problem resolved.

Good post! I agree!

mad m

Amazotheamazing wrote:

"hardest job out there".... come on? How about being a brickie in the middle of a freezing winter, or a deep sea engineer, or junior doctor etc?

Haha,did you read in papers a while ago what a brickie is meant to be on these days?

I know a few brickies and they are all very happy people I can tell you.Deep sea engineer last I know of is a highly paided job..Now junior doctor thats the only one I consider as being worse than the other two.

Amazotheamazing

Well paid yes, but still harder than being a teacher.

mad m

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Well paid yes, but still harder than being a teacher.

Yeah of course it is physically harder than a teacher.But teachers last time I seen aren't driving around in 4X4's.:D

Amazotheamazing

Yeah but teachers have better pensions, hours, can't be fired etc.

I'd say that job security and pensions are quite nice bonuses for teachers.

mad m

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Yeah but teachers have better pensions, hours, can't be fired etc.

I'd say that job security and pensions are quite nice bonuses for teachers.

Look this is my last post on this and I'm not saying anymore as its gone way off topic.I worked on sites for years and seen how many including myself reaped the benefits of the celtic tiger but none more so than a bricklayer.They have themselfs well sorted out in all departments.They make hay while the sun shines and make no bones about it.....

And who says a teacher can't be fired!!!

magpie

Well my dad is a techer and a lot of his work is outside school time- correcting homeworks

I think this really tells us all we need to know about the efficacy of our education system.

watsgone

that is below the belt

fatboypee

Dermington wrote:

lol i would love to see your kids exam results :rolleyes:

Would you ??? My two kids at school, one in primary, other just gone to secondary. Both STRAIGHT A.

entropi

fatboypee wrote:

This should probably be in get-it-off-ya chest but WTF is the In-Service Day thing all about ?

*An In-Service is where a load of teachers gather in some specified building whereby they discuss stuff like the way the new leaving cert is gonna be handled * [ for those not in the know, geography, history are being changed around a bit and have a whle new syylabus and approach to the exam and studies from this year onwards ] . Anyways, my history and geography teachers have been to them once-twice so far this year, they have more planned i think.

So there's your answer.

StupidLikeAFox

magpie wrote:

1) ALL jobs (above Burger King level) require people to put in work outside their scheduled hours. There's no such thing as a 9-5 (or 8.45 to 3.30 as the case may be :rolleyes: ). Also, how many teachers work every single lesson every day of the week? Surely they could be marking homework instead of drinking tea and bitching in the staff room?

2) Teachers start on €25k for working 160 days a year. Given that most people only get 20 days holidays + 7 public holidays Pro rata this puts teachers on at least €35k to start

3) Teachers are allowed to work in other jobs during their holidays - grinds etc, which is a nice little top-up to their salary

4) Many teachers give grinds during term time (which they wouldn't have to if the profession as a whole was any use at their jobs), again another nice little nixer.

I can see no reason why any teacher, who could be arsed working the same amount of days per year as the rest of us have to, couldn't earn €60-70k easily. Then again they're a pack of whiners with no grasp of reality.

And spare us the "I'd like to see you teach a class of 200 juvenile delinquents" argument. Presumably you went into teaching since you like teaching, or at least have an interest in education? Personally I can't think of anything worse, which is why I didn't train to be a teacher.

Don't like the money/conditions? Get a job elsewhere, if you can.

Those who can do, those who can't teach.

I laughed :v:

jimmycrackcorm

why are the in-service days done during the school term - why aren't they organized to get together during the summer and spend something like a month doing this training and upskilling?

Some of the points I'd make about teachers:

Wh should we listen to their demands without getting accountability in return. - Everyone knows there are crap teachers, but can you get rid of them???

what value can you put on the quality of life from having all that time off - it's of more worth than an extra salary?

I should also add that working in IT I have to put in a lot of extra hours so it is no consequence that teachers have to correct some homework after 4pm.

sully-gormo

Teaching is definitely one of the more demanding job out there; two hours teaching is much tougher than what you would be doing in the private sector. Yes, there are bad teachers(and opinion of this varies according to experience) but you can't tar them all with the one brush. The majority of teachers I had did their job properly.
While teaching first year maths mightn't be so strenuous teaching LC's subjects like History and English can be very time consuming; my teacher for these subjects spend his evenings revising this information so that he could adequately cover it in class the next day. My Maths Teacher had to spend 20 mins marking script's three or four times each year for SIXTY students( and thats only for 2 LC HL classes).
So no; its by no stretch of the imagination an easy job and a lot of effort has to be put in. A 40 hour week of a relatively easy job and a 20 hour week job of much more effort put in (per hour, say) with plenty of after hours working; theres no comparison. Private Jobs with a similar workload would be better paid and the people doing these jobs would be able to look forward to pay rises and promotion. What to teachers have to look forward as the years go by?

I know im gonna get shot down for this but it seems to me that some of the people here with low opinions of teachers seem to have very bad experience of teachers. But you can't deny that done properly its a difficult, badly-paid job with very few job prospects.