Canon? 350D or 20D

rabbitinlights

I am taking the plunge and going for a DSLR. I am going away travelling for about 2 years and I want to use this time to learn all about photography, for the past few years ive been using small sony digital cameras (T1/T7 etc) and I have gone about as far as I can go with them. I will still use these for nights out and convenience, but for the two years while Im away I wont be working and will be all over the world and would like to put this time to good use and get very good with DSLR's.

I am torn between the Canon 350D and the Canon 20D. The main reason being cost. I have about €1200 to spend but would spend upto €1500 to get it right. (including lenses) I dont know much about lenses and what type would need/want but im sure these can be picked up along the way.

would the 20D be a waste for somebody learning to use an DSLR?

Does anyone have either of these and give good points and bad points.

Ill either be buying from Ebay or from a european website. is it better to buy leses with the camera or buy cheaper non-canon lenses after?

Thanks
Sean

el capitaine

first off, be sure that wherever you buy that you can get a worldwide canon warantee. next off, Canon is going to update its 20D to a 20Ds after christmas. i would be tempted by the 350D as its a smaller camera so more lightweight for travelling and it means that you can put more money into lenses. the basic kit lens is an 18- 55mm lens and is starter grade quality- good but improvable. you won't stretch to an L lens, their professional series just yet but you might consider their 55-200mm or their 90-300mm EF lenses. these have as you probably know great foreshortening effects and make scenery much more dramatic as well as allowing you to move in on the action without disturbing it. you can buy a full kit: 350D with the 18-55, 55-200 and a battery grip but avoid this, you don't need a battery grip for lightweight travel. if you can afford it get a 28-135mm IS lens, still not affordable but your budget might stretch to it as its a higher grade lens though still not professional. Hope this helps

heffsarmy

el capitaine, were is the spec for the canon 20ds you said is out after christmas??? if thats the case hold onto your money until after christmas and buy a 20D at a cheaper price.

rabbitinlights

Thanks a million for the replys.

Ive decided to go for the 350D and a decent lense:

Ebay Item

Its about €1300 for the following delivered:

Canon 350D
Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4.0-5.6 USM IS Lens
67mm Multi-coated UV Filter for lens
1GB 50x High Speedy CF Card
Extra Battery for Canon EOS 350D

Ive read great reviews for this lense and pretty poor ones for the standard one that normally comes with it.

Can anyone tell me anything that this setup might restrict me from doing?

also the buyer seems very professional and there is no import duty. so no hidden extras.

Any comments?

Sean

Blake

I would go for the 350D and the 18-55mm lens - perfect for travelling. If you can afford it then get a zoom lens too

You might also wanna think about a laptop cause you won't get much enjoyment or learn anything about taking pics by just looking at your pics with the on camera screen. If you've got a laptop and photoshop with ya you'll be flying!

If you can't stretch to a laptop then think about how you're going to store the photos you've taken - when travelling you'll fill up the memory cards bloody quick so think about a storage device or a small compact flash to usb adapter and burn them onto cd/dvd at net cafes etc

heffsarmy

rabbitinlights, if your set on getting a 350d then I would get the canon 17-40mm F4 lens and a 1Gb, this would come in around 1300 and is a much better setup than the offer you were looking at...

rabbitinlights

Im a bit lost when it comes to lenses.

what would be the main difference between the 17-85mm and the 17-40mm F4 lens. in plain english.....:D

conorgriff

Click here for a summary of compatible lenses and their pros and cons. If you have a problem understanding the terms used there is a tutorial page here

rabbitinlights

Sweet. conorgriff, thats exactly what Im looking for.

Thanks a million.

el capitaine

heffsarmy wrote:

el capitaine, were is the spec for the canon 20ds you said is out after christmas??? if thats the case hold onto your money until after christmas and buy a 20D at a cheaper price.

check out www.canon.co.uk, its already listed... ' and they're selling off 20D cameras already, thats why there's been such a great price drop on the web

heffsarmy

el capitaine your talking BS there is no canon 20ds and canon have'nt annouced any new replacement for the 20d as of this very moment, so if your going to give out some advice on cameras at least know what your talking about.

rabbitinlights

I think im gonna stick with my original idea of the following

Canon 350D body
Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4.0-5.6 USM IS Lens

The reason im sticking with the 17-85 is alot to do with the fact it is a very versatile lense and the IS sounds great, Where im going I wont have an option of a large Tripod so this could save me with my shaky hands, Im am very tempted to get a ultra wide angle lense (10-22mm sigma/Canon) The price difference between the Sigma and the canon is madness, I had a quick go on a mates sigma 10-22mm and the shots looked amazing, I dont think I could justify the difference (€400+) especially as I am only starting off.

Sean.

/Not many online shops seem to have the 350D in stock at the moment? Ill probably buy off ebay with a worldwide warrenty, but is there any reason why shops are not stocking them?

PS. Canon said the Canon 20Ds is the model name used in Australia and its the same as the 20D

rabbitinlights

Right, Im not gonna buy from ebay, the "worldwide warranty" sounds a bit dodgy (12mth local hong kong warranty)
So Im gonna go with NY-CAMERA.COM, They seem very good and have it in stock, they are the same price as on ebay, but they dont give all the free gifts.

Anyone any last words on my selection, before I take the ~€1300 plunge.

Canon 350D body
Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4.0-5.6 USM IS Lens

and then later get the Sigma 10-22mm lense.
Sean.

pooh74

sorry to butt in anyone know where i can get a Nikon camera fixed ,its the lense

conorgriff

I'd say its a good deal, I was gonna go with that myself, are you getting the batterygrip with that too? I ended up buying the kit lens 18-55 and an extra lens the 50mm 1.8 with a batterygrip and extra battery for 1100

conorgriff

Re: Nikon camera

most decent camera shops should be able to help

halenger

pooh74 wrote:

sorry to butt in anyone know where i can get a Nikon camera fixed ,its the lense

Given that this is a thread about choosing between two Canon cameras to buy, would you not think of doing a search of the photography forum (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=27) or starting a new thread of your own on that forum?

Enygma

Hold on a sec, NY is full of scammer camera stores. Have you looked into this ny-camera crowd at all?

A quick google 'ny-camera.com scam' shows up this blog entry:
http://blogs.linux.ie/djmagra/2004/11/23/camera-orderedagain/

Well, after the debacle with ny-camera.com and ordering my camera from them prior to them going bust ...

Alarm bells!

I can vouch for technikdirekt.de Good service, quick delivery, honest people.

Also, you might as well go for the 50/1.8 I've found it's a great little lens, especially for the price. You should be able to pick one up second hand for around €60 or so. The 1.8 aperture gives amazing background blurs and really isolates your subjects.

conorgriff

Well I've ordered from technik direkt and I'm expecting my camera today, good service so far. With ny-camera.com the url actually links to www.digiwowo.net which seems to be a german site. It was recommended on these forums before

Enygma

Digi Wowo eh? Well then you might like to do a google search for 'digiwowo fraud'

Are they still linked from the sticky thread above? They should be removed if they are.

conorgriff

Yikes!!!!
I almost bought from them because technik direkt were out of stock. Well rabbit don't buy from them so, yeah it's still in the sticky!!!

rabbitinlights

The reason I am using them is because a local photographer just recommended them after buying his EOS 1D and lenses (+€5400), he saved a fortune and got it after 4days. He told me about people having problems before with them under a different owner but he said they are prefect now. He even recommened them to people in a class he does. Ive received helpful emails from them and they have them in-stock.

Oh, God. Nightmare. Its either these guys or Ebay and maybe getting stung for VAT/Duty from hong kong with a dodgy warranty. Nobody else has them in-stock.

Enygma

Looks like ac-foto.com have it in stock

pooh74

halenger wrote:

Given that this is a thread about choosing between two Canon cameras to buy, would you not think of doing a search of the photography forum (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=27) or starting a new thread of your own on that forum?

sorry mate ,this is all new to me , unaware that there was certain protocols had to be followed,my sincere apologies

pats22

i can vouch for ac foto - got the 350d ,17-85 + battery grip pack off them at start of november no bother

rabbitinlights

Im gonna go with AC-FOTO, What was there delivery like to Ireland. The price is very good for that battery grip deal. I think Im gonna get that Canon50mm 1.8 too. (only ~€95)

how do you find the camera and that lense? Good points and bad points, I dont know anyone else with that set-up? Thanks a millon.

Sean

pats22

for the delivery they were A1- I had a confirmation mail straight away and a ups tracking number by the end of the day - I chose the standard ups delivery - which slowed things up a little , as as far as I could see anything going on standard delivery left Germany on a flight early on a Tuesday morning and I think this flight only left once a week - so even though I ordered on a Friday it didn’t leave the ups depot in Germany till Tuesday morning - but I got it on the Wednesday so no problems there.

The camera itself is a pretty powerful bit of kit and takes a bit of getting used to and im still only working my way around it

The Image stabilization and auto focusing make quick carefree snapshots possible which is what the missus wants - yet you still have the range of options the manual modes offer + the flexibility of all those lovely lenses

Image quality is very impressive and the burst mode (which was one of my main problems with other digitals) is pretty smooth

if you are getting the kit - make sure to get an extra NB-2LH battery to get the most out of it - I like the extra size and weight the grip gives to the camera and the second set of buttons make portrait shots much easier to take

my particular lens is sharp across all settings , though I have heard of some people experiencing blurring at some focal lengths

The only real problem is that you get the version of the camera targeted at the German and Italian markets so all the manuals etc aren’t in English but you can download one from the US canon website

Overall recommended

rabbitinlights

Thanks a million pats22, Ive just ordered the following from AC-FOTO:

Canon 350D (body)
Canon 17-85mm IS
Canon 50mm f1.8

for €1321

That should keep me sorted for a while. What kinda bag do people use, Ive seen a few nice small backpacks, I cant really use a shoulder bag or belt bag because I cycle ever where. any recommendations?

I can only imagine how much im gonna be bugging people on this forum once I actually get the camera.......

Thanks

conorgriff

the 50mm lens is a legend, been playing with mine last two days. I got my camera delivered yesterday from technikdirekt.de. Great service and kept in contact. I love my new cam, I'm still getting to grips with it but the quality is amazing

rabbitinlights

is it a 350D?

Im dying to get my hands on mine.

conorgriff

Yeah 350d, it's class!!

Sample shot

conorgriff

That's with the 50mm lens

Takeshi_Kovacs

conorgriff wrote:

Yeah 350d, it's class!!

Sample shot

focus and clarity is excellent... damn i really want a 350 d, if only they weren't so expensive

cgf

The 350D is smashing - got one in July and it's a good piece of kit.

Recently picked up the new ef70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM lens but have yet to get out & about using it.

However, I am pissed with Canon - they brought in a £100 refund for 350Ds bought between 1st October & end of this year if you use a Mastercard. Guess who bought the 350D in July with a mastercard :mad:

This type of promotion doesn't really encourage you to be first "in-line" for any new release Canon equirment. Just wrote them a stinker of an email. Probably nothing will come of it but who knows :mad:


For any that qualify, the link to the promotion is

http://www.canonmastercardpromotion.com/terms.aspx

conorgriff

Rabbit - Get it yet or what?

rabbitinlights

pats22 wrote:

I chose the standard ups delivery - which slowed things up a little , as as far as I could see anything going on standard delivery left Germany on a flight early on a Tuesday morning and I think this flight only left once a week - so even though I ordered on a Friday it didn’t leave the ups depot in Germany till Tuesday morning - but I got it on the Wednesday so no problems there.

Not yet Conor, Seems pats22 was correct about only leaving germany on tuesdays. according to UPS, its been in DUSSELDORF since friday. Hopefully Ill see some sort of movement tomorrow (tues) and it should be here wed/thurs. Im not too bothered as I dont have any spare time till Xmas day anyway. Ill post up a few shots after Ive gotten over the sharp learning curve of moving from point and shoot to DSLR.

S.

conorgriff

Ah cool, yeah mine sat in germany for a day or two also, well fingers crossed for ya and if you don't get an english manual gimme a shout and I'll give you the link to a download of it

rabbitinlights

Please put up that link, I might aswell start reading it now.....

Thanks.

rabbitinlights

Well my camera arrived on tuesday, but its only been out of the box once because my girlfriends parents have arrived over to stay for xmas and im working till 7.30 everyday, so I have no time to even get to grips with it, Im going on a bit of a road trip around the 29th till the 3rd Jan, so i should have a few shots from then!

Thank for all the help choosing it.

Sean.

conorgriff

PDF of Manual

davelerave

cgf wrote:

The 350D is smashing - got one in July and it's a good piece of kit.

Recently picked up the new ef70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM lens but have yet to get out & about using it.

However, I am pissed with Canon - they brought in a £100 refund for 350Ds bought between 1st October & end of this year if you use a Mastercard. Guess who bought the 350D in July with a mastercard :mad:

This type of promotion doesn't really encourage you to be first "in-line" for any new release Canon equirment. Just wrote them a stinker of an email. Probably nothing will come of it but who knows :mad:


For any that qualify, the link to the promotion is

http://www.canonmastercardpromotion.com/terms.aspx

thanks for the tip-off

rabbitinlights

Getting a brand new camera @ xmas is annoying, I have had about 2-3hrs to mess with it all holiday and Im back to work tomorrow. Here's just a few pictures I managed on Xmas day down the beach, and the hand one is the first shot taken with the 50mm lense!


50mm.

Too Dark I think. might try and lighten it up abit.

Too bright. might try and darken it.

Over all the camera is amazing. Still only just learning about shutter speed etc. Im very glad I went for the 17-85mm IS lense, Its great. The IS is very handy in Low light, although no substitute for a Tripod. The 50mm is a tasty lense for the price. the DOF is tiny though, if the person moves the slightest bit back its gone...... anyway,

What do you think of the above shots.

S.

Takeshi_Kovacs

nice shots... very tempted to part with some hard earned yoyos
just had a quick look on amazon.co.uk, and looks like i can get a 350d with kit lens for 575 sterling.. taking 100 rebate, this works out at around 690 euros.. seems a little bit cheap, maybe?? maybe i have done the sums wrong or something

rabbitinlights

What £100 rebate?

I bought is from AC-FOTO.COM, they have it for €799 for the kit.

Takeshi_Kovacs

rabbitinlights wrote:

What £100 rebate?

I bought is from AC-FOTO.COM, they have it for €799 for the kit.

the one that davelerave mentioned above, although i've only 3 days to make up my mind, and see if it is worth buying if i want to get the 100 sterling knocked off..