Big 4 KPMG E&Y Deliotte Pwc

Kingkong

This should be interesting.

Which Big 4 company are you either working for or signing a contract for?

Riamfada

Ya Wa?

Chinafoot

uhmmmm.....my sister works for KPMG....does that count?

Sgt Slaughter

Snubbed by all four of them..................bastards

boneless

Tick.... none of the above!!!

blondie83

Kingkong wrote:

This should be interesting.

Which Big 4 company are you either working for or signing a contract for?

Sorry to ruin the fun - but there's not too many Commerce folk around these parts! Can't think why really...

Pythia

Next year I'll apply to them all. Hoping to get an internship with one this summer too.

john^doyle

i'm 1st commerce..

Kingkong

There is quite a few commerce people here.

Cyrus

i work in kpmg did bbls in ucd then the macc in smurfit

kapers aint a bad place to work, especially once you pass the fae's

ste

Cyrus wrote:

i work in kpmg did bbls in ucd then the macc in smurfit

kapers aint a bad place to work, especially once you pass the fae's

Cyrus just looking for a few answers about KPMG, AUdit in particular... Just for reference

Does the money increase every year?
How is overtime calculated?
What hours would you work on a day to day basis?
Are you in a different location carrying out an audit every week?
Are there a lot of egos?
Do you get bonuses?

Any other info. you think might be useful would be great... cheers

Umaro

*blows dust off topic*

TheVan

BOO!

Accountants are jerks.....

Where are the Big 5 Law firms??

Viva la Lawyers.........(ducks and runs)

Pythia

Woot, accounting!

Cyrus

Cyrus just looking for a few answers about KPMG, AUdit in particular... Just for reference

Does the money increase every year?

Yes and once out of contract evey 6 months

How is overtime calculated?

Sadly on a 1 to 1 basis so if you work an hour u get an hour, same on a weekend which really makes u not want to do weekend stocktakes! you can take it as holidays or cash it in, you may need it for exam leave depending

What hours would you work on a day to day basis?

First year generally 9-5.30, the odd time during busy season you would do overtime (busy season jan - april) and the odd time at other parts of the year depending on the job. now (im in my 3rd year, qualified etc) i generally start at 8.15 or so (i like being in early its a personal thing) and work til 6 or so, the odd job may require overtime in stints but im of the opinion if you work hard all day overtime is a waste of time, you cant properly put it in 12 hrs a day, however this is department dependent, if you are in financial services OT is expected all the time. In my opinion its counter productive, if i knew i was working 12 hours a day im not gonna work hard all day

Are you in a different location carrying out an audit every week?
Most jobs are 2-3 weeks, of which u would spend 6-7 days on site and the rest of the time in the office finishing up, some jobs are longer. you may not always be assigned to a job but as you get more senior and busier you need a bit of time to finish off ongoing jobs that didnt get finished for one reason or another


Are there a lot of egos?
Not in my dept, once u settle in people really generally are really cool, plus normally when u start in a dept, 7 or 8 others start at your level so solidarity in no;s etc. you get the odd jackass but they really are the exception, more than anything the people make KPMG


Do you get bonuses?

Unfortunately not, except exam bonuses, if u pass faes first time u get a decent payrise and 2.5k tax free which is cool

Any other info. you think might be useful would be great... cheers

everything i told u is based on my own experience in my own dept, which is an audit dept that services medium sized irish business, someone from FS or tax may have a different opinion.

The key to getting on well is being good with people, its really half the battle on an audit if clients like you you're half way there, that an a professional attitude, a bit of diligence and be willing to get hammered on a friday and the odd week night if required

If you wanna proper chat or have more qns pm me and ill try help all i can

hullaballoo

Moved to work/jobs. UCD is a University.

Sangre

TheVan wrote:

BOO!

Accountants are jerks.....

Where are the Big 5 Law firms??

Viva la Lawyers.........(ducks and runs)

No official 'big 5' but there is the magic circle in London, that is, the biggest law firms in the world.
Get in there and CHA-CHING!

kluivert

They should be a none of the above option on the pole, alot of accountants dont work for the Big4

Long live Athur Anderson......;) (Joke)

singingstranger

On an internship in another large but not-strictly-financial company. Wootage.

stepbar

I bet you every one of ye that are working for the "Big 4" have either come from Trinity, UCD or some other "university". Would I be correct? Dont get me wrong I have loads of friends that have graduated from either university, but there seems to be a serious bias towards trinity and UCD and the like. I’ll tell you a story... My 2 friends and myself all applied to Deliotte last yr, we all used to go to a "lesser" known college down in the IFSC.... One of my friends girlfriend went to Trinity and so he (lets call him Friend A) decided (because he spent half of his time there ) that he would drop his application in there. Myself and my other friend (let’s call him Friend like fools posted ours in the normal way..... Guess what, Friend A got the call up! Shock horror :eek: But it gets better, again like fools myself and Friend B decided we would apply again. This time we happened to be doin a masters in the same college together. No joy this time either! Both of us have v.good results from our primary degree in computing (high 2.1) and we are after doing v.well in out masters in business (good 2.1). Problem is our L.Certs were not so hot, I was 30 pts off the requirement. What pisses me off is this and the perceived bias towards the "universities". Poor, poor recruitment policy, if what gets you in the door is your L.Cert and this sort of "bias"

chump

stepbar wrote:

I bet you every one of ye that are working for the "Big 4" have either come from Trinity, UCD or some other "university". Would I be correct? Dont get me wrong I have loads of friends that have graduated from either university, but there seems to be a serious bias towards trinity and UCD and the like. Ill tell you a story... My 2 friends and myself all applied to Deliotte last yr, we all used to go to a "lesser" known college down in the IFSC.... One of my friends girlfriend went to Trinity and so he (lets call him Friend A) decided (because he spend half of his time there ) that he would drop his application in there. Myself and my other friend (lets call him Friend like fools posted ours in the normal way..... Guess what, Friend A got the call up! Shock horror :eek: But it gets better, again like fools myself and Friend B decided we would apply again. This time we happened to be doin a masters in the same college together. No joy this time either! Both of us have v.good results from our primary degree in computing (high 2.1) and we are after doing v.well in out masters in business (good 2.1). Problem is our L.Certs were not so hot, I was 30 pts off the requirement. What pisses me off is this and the percieved bias towards the "universities". Poor poor recruitment policy, if what gets you in the door is your L.Cert and this sort of "bias"

It may well be true.
They obviously rate like-for-like results from universities higher than those from IT's and 'other' colleges.

It seems they also rate LC results as a strong barometer for intelligence and work ethic.

They also look at other thing in deciding who to interview, ie. skills, hobbies, achievements etc.

I'd agree with most of this.
Say they have 3 requirements
Good LC
Good UNI
Good Extra-curric

and you only tick 2 of these boxes, there are probably hundreds of others who tick all the boxes. I know for a fact people from 'other' colleges have gotten jobs in the big4. They were top students who ticked all the boxes

seamus

Cyrus wrote:

you get the odd jackass but they really are the exception, more than anything the people make KPMG

Have to agree. Wasn't an accountant in KPMG (was IT), but the general social aura of the place is great. That's not to say the rest are bad. The GF worked in E & Y for a while, and the same atmosphere seemed to be there too when I met them on the beer, etc.

stepbar

chump wrote:

They also look at other thing in deciding who to interview, ie. skills, hobbies, achievements etc.

Had no probs on this side, neither had my 2 friends. Anyhow IMO I don’t think this would become relevant until interviews.

Lets be honest, how many of ye had even heard of the "Big 4" (or "Big 5" as it was called back then) when you were doin ur leaving? Had anyone even considered a career in Deloitte etc when 17? Did you even know what you wanted to do? some did, some didnt. I did but thats not to say everyone else did. As well as that, you could have had personal circumstances that could have affected your performance in the L.Cert.... At least with an aptitude test you can fairly quickly ascertain whether someone is thick or not. The quicker they make it illegal to recruit using flawed policies like these the better....

chump

stepbar wrote:

Had no probs on this side, neither had my 2 friends. Anyhow IMO I don’t think this would become relevant until interviews.

Lets be honest, how many of ye had even heard of the "Big 4" (or "Big 5" as it was called back then) when you were doin ur leaving? Had anyone even considered a career in Deloitte etc when 17? Did you even know what you wanted to do? some did, some didnt. I did but thats not to say everyone else did. As well as that, you could have had personal circumstances that could have affected your performance in the L.Cert.... At least with an aptitude test you can fairly quickly ascertain whether someone is thick or not. The quicker they make it illegal to recruit using flawed policies like these the better....

I'm not disagreeing with you on it being unfair, that's just the way it is. They have to cut the numbers down substantially and need to draw the line somewhere. There's also an opportunity on all the application forms to explain under-performance. I'd say the calibre of student is extremely high in these jobs and 1.1's are probably more common than 2.1's. It's top of the pops.

Also they don't do aptitude tests in the interviews. More role-playing or mini-tests things that are more about decision making, speed etc.

Also I hope you applied to all 4 and not just 1?

Most people I know who applied for the big4 might have got 1 or 2 interviews, with a few top candidates getting 3 or 4. And then there are about another 5odd top firms in dublin that would be very close in reputation and package to the big4. If you really want to do accounting and have the education you appear to have you'd definitely be able to get a 'decent' package in dublin.

irlrobins

With regard to Deloitte (and prob true with many big firms), a very small precentage of applicants get called for first round interview. Often it's as low as 10%.

You could be right that your LC results were the reason you were not called. But equally as likely that your application was not strong enough to make it stand out from all the others. Replies to the questions such as "why do you want to work at X?" or "Can you give an example of where you worked as a team?" etc are often where a lot of people trip up.

stepbar wrote:

The quicker they make it illegal to recruit using flawed policies like these the better....

What a ridiculous statement. Provided the firm meets equality laws, they are free to recruit staff as they see fit.

stepbar

chump wrote:

I'm not disagreeing with you on it being unfair, that's just the way it is. They have to cut the numbers down substantially and need to draw the line somewhere.

Fair enough, but an aptitude test is the best way to do this IMO. The banks all do it, why cant the Big 4?

chump wrote:

There's also an opportunity on all the application forms to explain under-performance.

I didnt see a section on any of the form re this. Anyhow, TBH its none of their business!!!

chump wrote:

Also they don't do aptitude tests in the interviews. More role-playing or mini-tests things that are more about decision making, speed etc.

Fair enough, Im all for this type of accessment. its good fun.

chump wrote:

Also I hope you applied to all 4 and not just 1?

I applied for Deloitte and KPMG, both rejected, could not be arsed applying for the other two cause its the same craic with them all. TBH just wasting my time and energy.

irlrobins

stepbar wrote:

could not be arsed applying for the other two cause its the same craic with them all.

Well if this lack of motivation came across in your application, little wonder you didn't get called for interview.

stepbar

irlrobins wrote:

But equally as likely that your application was not strong enough to make it stand out from all the others. Replies to the questions such as "why do you want to work at X?" or "Can you give an example of where you worked as a team?" etc are often where a lot of people trip up.

Fair enough, but I went to a lot of effort on this one. I got it checked over by the careers office in two colleges, both knowledgable people IMO. Have had good work experience and good summer jobs so I have lots of experiences to give.

irlrobins wrote:

What a ridiculous statement. Provided the firm meets equality laws, they are free to recruit staff as they see fit.

Not if they are rating me on a qualification that I gained 7 years ago!!!! it ain't.... Rate me on what i've done in the last 3 yrs at least... and give me an aptitude test.. Then you can tell me to PFO

chump

stepbar wrote:

I applied for Deloitte and KPMG, both rejected, could not be arsed applying for the other two cause its the same craic with them all. TBH just wasting my time and energy.

Quitters attitude, they must have snuffed that out in your application
You were mad not to apply to the others though. PWC tend to interview the most.
Also Ernst&Young, GrantThornton, BDO Simpson Xavier, and there's loads more who's name are too long for me to remember Nevermind all the trainee accountant positions in the big banks...

Seriously though if you had of put the leg work in something would have fallen your way

stepbar

irlrobins wrote:

Well if this lack of motivation came across in your application, little wonder you didn't get called for interview.

Hold on one minute, why would I apply for the other 2 after get rejections form KPMG and Deloitte? There are plenty of jobs out there with the same prospects, same wage etc that I would be interested in. Thats insulting TBH.....

irlrobins

stepbar wrote:

Have had good work experience and good summer jobs so I have lots of experiences to give.

Fair enough, but it's important when applying for jobs not just state "I work in X and I did a,b and c while there". You need to show what you gained or achieved from that work. For example, everyone knows what working as a Barman entails. So you don't need to tell the reader that, you need to show them what you learned from that job could benefit the firm you are applying to.

stepbar wrote:

Not if they are rating me on a qualification that I gained 7 years ago!!!! it ain't.... Rate me on what i've done in the last 3 yrs at least... and give me an aptitude test.. Then you can tell me to PFO

When you're applying for your first job out of college, you generally have little or no applicable work experience. So the firm can only use your school and college education as a guide to your likely performance. Once you have worked for a few years, then your education results become less important. But not until then.

irlrobins

stepbar wrote:

Hold on one minute, why would I apply for the other 2 after get rejections form KPMG and Deloitte? There are plenty of jobs out there with the same prospects, same wage etc that I would be interested in. Thats insulting TBH.....

Insulting how? If you gave up on accounting after just two pfos then prehaps your heart was never in it, and this came across in your application.

stepbar

irlrobins wrote:

Fair enough, but it's important when applying for jobs not just state "I work in X and I did a,b and c while there". You need to show what you gained or achieved from that work. For example, everyone knows what working as a Barman entails. So you don't need to tell the reader that, you need to show them what you learned from that job could benefit the firm you are applying to.

irlrobins wrote:

When you're applying for your first job out of college, you generally have little or no applicable work experience. So the firm can only use your school and college education as a guide to your likely performance. Once you have worked for a few years, then your education results become less important. But not until then.

Def dont fall into this category, I can tell you sthat straight. In the past 10 years I have had 10 positions, one 8 month stint (wk exp), 2 jobs in the summer of 2003 (12 hr days), p/t job for 2 1/2 yrs. Now doing p/t for the last 8 months. The rest have been fulltime summer jobs (3 month stints). Lots of responcibility too, and b/s to put up with as well. And ill tell you its a lot more experince then some scrawny faced grad straight out of college... Ne how Rant over ive got some college work to do

irlrobins wrote:

lack of motivation

. Thats why its insulting..... I generally dont wait to piss about, like Joe Duffy says on liveline, "Next caller please"

chump

stepbar wrote:

. Thats why its insulting..... I generally dont wait to piss about, like Joe Duffy says on liveline, "Next caller please"

stepbar to be fair you would have applied to all the big4 companies at the same time, so it is dishonest to say

stepbar wrote:

Hold on one minute, why would I apply for the other 2 after get rejections form KPMG and Deloitte?

Also if you really wanted to do accounting you wouldn't have applied for any other type of jobs- example the Aldi application.

If you really wanted to do accounting you would have sent over 20 CV's to accounting firms shortly after christmas.

I applied to all the big4, got 1 interview, got 1 job. If I had applied to 2, I might have gotten no job. I had my second round of CV's ready to send off to the another 20odd companies if that hadn't worked out for me. I was dead set on doing accounting and knew that I'd get in somewhere if I kept trying.

You sound like a girl I know who did a postgrad similar to yours, she didnt really know what she wanted to do, and applied for various jobs in all different fields. She ended up getting nothing. Because unless your heart is really in it, tis obvious for a recruiter to find you out. Also she ended up applying to the top positions in each field, instead of the various strata of positions in one field.

dudara

irlrobins wrote:

With regard to Deloitte (and prob true with many big firms), a very small precentage of applicants get called for first round interview. Often it's as low as 10%.

I've accepted an offer from D&T, as a management consultant, starting in September, but when I was interviewed, I was told that they bought back less than 10% for the first round interviews alone. They gave a very thorough interview process, and were keenly interested in personal achievements, social work (if any), as well as the standard academic achievements. A willingness to talk independently also seemed to be useful.

I also applied to E&Y and McKinsey and received interviews with them both. E&Y made a job offer, however, it was less than D&T, and I got to the second round with McKinsey.

I have a PhD (Engineering), BSc (Physics, 1H), both from UCC and 580 in my Leaving in 1996. I was really unsure when finishing the PhD what I wanted to persue career-wise, but when I went to the interviews, I made sure that I was focussed and prepared. This was my chance to suss out the companies in person and I used the interviews ruthlessly to achieve this. This helped me decide that consulting-type work was a path I wanted to persue.

Newaglish

OK firstly, it's not only commerce students from either UCD or Trinity that get jobs in the Big 4. I did a BA in Accounting course down in WIT, applied for the Big 4 firms, got interviews with 3, and job offers from all three that inetrviewed me. Out of our class of 70, about 10-15 people have received job offers from the Big 4.

Just because I went to WIT does NOT mean I was in any way discriminated against. The only people who seem to think your University/College matters are:

a) Stuck-up University students
b) People who want to be stuck-up university students but didn't get in and are bitter or do not have the grades/ability and need something to blame it on

Personally? I think WIT is one of the best places to go if you're looking for a career in accountancy. In fact, one of my interviewers in E&Y told me that students coming from WIT and I think the other college was DIT have an advantage over other applicants because their course is more specialised and they spend more time studying Audit and Internal Audit/Control.

If you don't get an interview with one of the Big 4, it's because:

A) You didn't get enough LC points
Your college grades aren't good enough
C) You handed up a poor application form

I know of people who got interviews doing courses in Music, and others in Philosophy. Where you go to college or what course you do DOES NOT MATTER.

The reason they look to your LC points (primarily your English and Maths grades), is because it's the only recognisable educational qualification most applicants actualyl have at the time of application and it's the only thing that is objective and equal for most applicants. If get 300 points in my LC and then have an 85% average in college, the obvious assumption is that the course i'm doing is too easy. And, given the number of applicants and limited spaces, they really do have to screen things this way.

Also, you said that KPMG/Deloitte rejected you, and THEN you decided not to apply to the other firms? Correct me if i'm wrong, but the closing date for applications for all companies comes before the stage where anyone would get a reply to their application. So there's no way you would know your were rejected before the closing date for PwC/E&Y. Unless you have made these applications over a number of years?

stepbar

Apologies - I applied for the big 4 last yr - all rejected. This yr I only applied for KPMG and Deloitte. I should have clarified that from the start.

Look, what angers me is the way L.Cert pts come into the equation, I done my L.Cert 7 YEARS AGO!!!! Most computer courses where around the 370 - 400 pts mark the time I was applying. I had the points for a cert (the cert was 360pts) at the time. I could have chosen a degree in sligo either but decided against it cause I wanted to keep my options open. I now have a cert, degree (computing) and a masters in business (Strategic mgt) .....

Anyhow its a bit irrevilant, my point is judge me on what I have done in the last 3 yrs / 2 courses I have done, not some poxy L.Cert result....

Cyrus

are you applying to KPMG as a trainee accountant? the fact your primary degree is a computer one will not work in your favour.

Also KPMG etc are like big factories they take in 150 or so each year, keep them for 3-3.5 years and then discard or lose 95% of them, given the current desire for people to do accountancy they have their choice of all the top university students, its now got to the point where a high 2.1 in a big university is considered the minimum entry point, and they set it like that because they can, they dont need to look any further afield

that said there are a few people in from the college in the ifsc and they got a place by doing an internship and impressing, there are also people from various ITs who managed to get in with what i would imagine were good rounded cvs and a good interview.

there are, as pointed out above, plenty of big accountancy firms outside the big 4, and you may even get better experience there

stepbar

no no IT auditing with KPMG, the other (Deloitte) was IT consultancy (last yr) and Business consultancy (this yr), you still have to commit to do accountancy exams

charba

I applied to two of them in October just gone and didn't get interviews. I also applied to load of small accountancy firms. Just because I did not do well in one exam they snubbed me.

Which looking back now i don't particularly mind. I have a really good job with good prospect in a firm i love. the salary is way better than any of the big four would offer and I have all the added benefits of being permenant staff member such as VHI and a pension.

they are also paying for my exams when I want to sit them. In 3 and a half years when friends are leaving their jobs and most likely moving into industry I will have the added bonus of working in industry and this experience will be important.