Skoda Are Price Fixing

woody

I rang 80% of all Skoda Dealers in Ireland today to get a cash Price on the following Car:

New Skoda Octavia Amibente 1.4 16V


Basically the price does'nt change much cheapest is Monaghan with €18,250 without Metallic and Dearest Balbriggin €18750 without Mettalic.

The Prices I am being quote from most garages are almost the same.

Now here we go these lot are at it aswell.

General Price Differences are no more than €100 to €150

Methinks I will have to report these boyo's some were very cagey on the phone to me maybe after last nights Primetime

chicken_food

Hey woody, ring a guy in autostation dun laoghire (think his name is colm). Hes a new guy and basically desperate to make the deals even if it means eating in to his profit! A friend of mine bought a car from him, and anytime he walked away this employee would knock more money off! Worth a try me thinks

woody

Cheers Dude

bazz26

woody wrote:

I rang 80% of all Skoda Dealers in Ireland today to get a cash Price on the following Car:

New Skoda Octavia Amibente 1.4 16V


Basically the price does'nt change much cheapest is Monaghan with €18,250 without Metallic and Dearest Balbriggin €18750 without Mettalic.

The Prices I am being quote from most garages are almost the same.

Now here we go these lot are at it aswell.

General Price Differences are no more than €100 to €150

Methinks I will have to report these boyo's some were very cagey on the phone to me maybe after last nights Primetime

They probably thought you were Eddie Hobbs...

woody

Yeah my Nordie Dundalk accent is distinctly the same

maidhc

I have no evidence one way or the other, but I would have thought when asking the cash price of a car, the price will never vary that massively. After all the same goes for identical models of TVs etc etc.

When we bought a tractor a few years ago it was amazing. The local garage was exactly €1000 cheaper than all the other main dealers for that particular model in the county, and no other dealer wanted to sell to us, most didnt even return our calls, which is remarkable considering the best part of €60k was on offer.

knifey_spoonie

With the family business being in the car trade.I can teel you there isint the room to move on prices the average profit is 1% to 5% on any new car.Like was said when you buy telly the price doesent vary that much so why should the price of cars.

Ford and citroen have the same distributors thats why they were linked together on prime time.

Before you go saying anything about me trying to cover for dealers.Dont because i am not.But half of what was said last night was bull

If you remember back to Eddie Hobbs buying an avensis and the Dub dealers had very little difference in price.Then he rang a dealer down the country who gave a 1,000 of the dub dealers price.That was us.

Hellrazer

knife_fighter wrote:

With the family business being in the car trade.I can teel you there isint the room to move on prices the average profit is 1% to 5% on any new car.Like was said when you buy telly the price doesent vary that much so why should the price of cars.

Ford and citroen have the same distributors thats why they were linked together on prime time.

Ford and Citroen dont have the same distributors---Peugeot and Citroen have the same distributors namely Gallic.

Hyundai and Mitsubishi have the same distributors.

ds20prefecture

chicken_food wrote:

Hey woody, ring a guy in autostation dun laoghire (think his name is colm). Hes a new guy and basically desperate to make the deals even if it means eating in to his profit! A friend of mine bought a car from him, and anytime he walked away this employee would knock more money off! Worth a try me thinks

Or try Mick Shaw in Longford - I found him very fair to deal with, particularly at service time (unlike Autostation)

woody

Methinks I am going to look towards toyota as found massive difference in prices on the new yaris (dundalk being over €900 cheaper cash) than Dublin.

And don't give me this guff that dealers are making small profits they are not social workers and last night was not bull but more and open secret, sooner these cartels are smashed and things made more fairer the better.

The only decent and fair company I found were fiat dealers alas there cars are crap

bazz26

woody wrote:

Yeah my Nordie Dundalk accent is distinctly the same

Maybe they thought that it was Eddie pretending to be someone from Dundalk...;)

Back to the original subject.

About 3 years ago I was interested in buying a new Ford Focus Ghia. I went to the two dealers in Limerick. One could not get me the colour I wanted but had another colour in stock. The other could get me the car I wanted in the colour I wanted and was €900 cheaper than the other guy.

bazz26

As for dealers not making much money from the cars they are selling. Well on the Ballysimon/Tipperary road here in Limerick, not too far from where I live, a new BMW garage has been opened with a new state of the art showroom. Also along the same stretch of road the local Ford dealer has build a brand new showroom in the last 2 years. Across the road from him a brand new Toyota showroom and forecourt are under construction. My local Honda dealer has just sold his old premises and is relocating to a brand new showroom on the same road plus about half a mile down the road my local Hyundai dealer is also building a brand new showroom on his current forecourt. At the other side of the city the Opel dealer has also just opened a two floor state of the art glass showroom last weekend.

I am sure it is a similar story around other parts of the country.

Guy:Incognito

bazz26 wrote:

As for dealers not making much money from the cars they are selling. Well on the Ballysimon/Tipperary road here in Limerick, not too far from where I live, a new BMW garage has been opened with a new state of the art showroom. Also along the same stretch of road the local Ford dealer has build a brand new showroom in the last 2 years. Across the road from him a brand new Toyota showroom and forecourt are under construction. My local Honda dealer has just sold his old premises and is relocating to a brand new showroom on the same road plus about half a mile down the road my local Hyundai dealer is also building a brand new showroom on his current forecourt. At the other side of the city the Opel dealer has also just opened a two floor state of the art glass showroom last weekend.

I am sure it is a similar story around other parts of the country.

In fairness, people would be whinging if they went to a dealership and it was the same old shack it was 40 years ago, smelly carpets and all. People nowadays expect shiney, open showrooms that are sparkling.

It's like Ricky Gervais in the office when he gets the sack and is doing badly but still has a brand spanking new car to put forward the image of succsess (im not saying the garages arnt making money) but if one garage up the road opens a new showroom, and your still in your old tatty one, where do you think the people will preare to shop?

BrianD3

The way I see this is, business charging similar prices are everywhere, not just in the motor trade. There will be a big hoo-haa about the prime time programme but in reality they could have looked at many other businesses which charge similar prices eg solicitors, doctors, dentists, pharmacists, vets (notice a trend here?) Personally I would like to see some probing done into why the majority of solicitors seem to charge 1% of the price of a house for conveyancing and if you haggle with them the majority seem to give similar discounts.

knifey_spoonie

As with garages renovating garages this is due to minimum requirment that have been put on dealers.If they dont meet theses requirement their contracks will not be up for renewal.

And of course garages are making money, in our garage we add 800 directly onto the price this covers cleaning PDI mats petrol metallic paint plates and adim charges.Garages dont make the same precentage profit as a newsagents or any other bussiness.The public seem to think that we are a shady bunch of characters.With the amount of lads selling cars at the side of the road why wouldent you.And then you expect main dealers to offer cars at the same price, it just aint possilbe the difference in overheads is huge.

On a small car Yaris or Fiesta the profit is around 600-800
Corolla or focus 900-1200
Avensis passat say 1100-1500

unkel

knife_fighter wrote:

With the family business being in the car trade.I can teel you there isint the room to move on prices the average profit is 1% to 5% on any new car

Only if you sell to a tough negotiator. The profit most cars sold at list price is much higher than that, especially if optional extras are included

Buying a typical car with cash, I would expect a 10% discount on list. With options I'd expect more

The dealer is still making profit at those discounts, so happy enough to sell if he realises you won't pay any more. Don't forget kick-back bonusses either

woody

Well getting a Car outside Ireland is a No-No as did my home worl there and with VRT etc the above car works out at €700 More :mad:

We motorists can't win and TBH I was considering sticking with Skoda but the amount of messing going on I may look elsewhere for better value.

Jildy

On a small car Yaris or Fiesta the profit is around 600-800
Corolla or focus 900-1200
Avensis passat say 1100-1500

The above is crap.

I got ~€1700 off the RRP of a medium sized car last year (corolla/focus size) and I know for a fact that the dealer did not sell at a loss just because he liked the look of me !!! And I didn't even haggle with him. This was his first best offer.

woody

Jasus thats some drop, you should have haggled further for free tax and petrol and his suit

jimmycrackcorm

Dealers get a kickback if they sell X number of cars in a space of time. This is why you will get very good offers in the first three months of the year. that's where the profit comes from.

knifey_spoonie

Jildy wrote:

On a small car Yaris or Fiesta the profit is around 600-800
Corolla or focus 900-1200
Avensis passat say 1100-1500

The above is crap.

I got ~€1700 off the RRP of a medium sized car last year (corolla/focus size) and I know for a fact that the dealer did not sell at a loss just because he liked the look of me !!! And I didn't even haggle with him. This was his first best offer.

That is the truth, i can tell no dealer ever gets full list price for a car.Its next to impssible to get full list price.And when a dealer takes in a car work has to be done to get it ready for sale.Service,Tyres,Valet,Warrenty which all add up to about €600 before the car is even ready for sale.And if any garage doesnt do all taht you probaly shouldent buy off them.

ambro25

Just don't buy new :rolleyes: ... and buy second-hand in UK, more traceability (if you go to the trouble of checking)

EDIT - @Knife_Fighter (it's probably not possible, but...) do you mind providing a break down of how exactly do a Service (?) + Tyres (?) + Valet (well, OK) + Warranty (?) rack up €600 for a new car?

mike65

bazz26 wrote:

As for dealers not making much money from the cars they are selling. Well on the Ballysimon/Tipperary road here in Limerick, not too far from where I live, a new BMW garage has been opened with a new state of the art showroom. Also along the same stretch of road the local Ford dealer has build a brand new showroom in the last 2 years. Across the road from him a brand new Toyota showroom and forecourt are under construction. My local Honda dealer has just sold his old premises and is relocating to a brand new showroom on the same road plus about half a mile down the road my local Hyundai dealer is also building a brand new showroom on his current forecourt. At the other side of the city the Opel dealer has also just opened a two floor state of the art glass showroom last weekend.

I am sure it is a similar story around other parts of the country.

Here in Waterford the last 3-4 years have seen new premises opened/refursbished by every major brand name bar Skoda, Peugeot and Honda who have showrooms elsewhere in town. I'd say about 20 milion has been spent, the Cork Road is now known as the Motor Mile.

Mike.

MercMad

Just because you get the same price from abunch of dealers doesn't mean anything is wrong. It simply means they are prepared to drop to their standard "cash" price price over the phone. Other delaer will never quote their best price 'till the is a punter standing in front of them. The cars cost the selling dealers the same money so why wouldn't their prices be similar if not the same ?

It well known that country dealers will drop their prices to lower levels, thats nothing new, and I confirm what Knife Fighter says about the dealer margin, its tiny in most cases. Unless you are selling a luxury brand or a new model in demand then the list price is simply a cushion for trade in allowance !

As far as the tractor deal goes............that DEFINITELY smacks of dealer collusion. "I wont sell into your area if you dont sell into mine". Its easy to do and the car dealers do it too. They take a look at your trade in, ask if you bought it new, spot the dealer sticker and then they decide if you've been shopping around they'll just give you an avaerage price. You get the same treatment from a bunch of them and whn you go back to the guy who sold you the car and he gives you the best price and you think he's a hero for looking after you !! He probably got the call from one of the others already !

If you ever do call for prices .............dont tell them where your calling from, just be vague and use a mobile so they dont see the area code !

Some dealers will deal when they have a car in stock for too long. It may be the latest model but these are all on "stocking loans" and the delaer normally gets 3 months to pay for a car. If its due for payment you may get a better deal !

As far as flash showrooms go, they all have to fall in line with an EU standard PLUS its a way for a manufacturer to get its hooks into a dealer. With Block Exemption there are no ties so the manufactuers doesn't want dealers jumping ship so they give them loans for flash premises at agreeable rates. Simple and effective !

Dealers have been known to sell under their invoice price when the "end of year rebate" looms but getting 10% off a new car nowdays IMO is not possible in normal circumstances ! BTW "list price" and "cash price" and profit are obviously different and without a trade in I would expect an 7-8% drop straight away. You could haggle and get 10% or be told to sling yer hook !

knifey_spoonie

I was takling abou the cost that any deacent dealer would have before any car traded in was ready for sale.

Sorry for the confusion.

Cheers Merc mad for backing me up on the margin thing.

MercMad

Cheers Merc mad for backing me up on the margin thing.

..........been there and done that !

...........still convincing folk that the dealer doesn't actually get ALL of the money you hand over !!

AlanD

mike65 wrote:

Here in Waterford the last 3-4 years have seen new premises opened/refursbished by every major brand name bar Skoda, Peugeot and Honda who have showrooms elsewhere in town. I'd say about 20 milion has been spent, the Cork Road is now known as the Motor Mile.

Mike.

Waterford is a different story altogether. Eamonn Boland has slowly but surely bought out almost all of the local dealerships in town. He has somewhere around 10 brands under his belt at the moment. Big money there, hence the very impressive Volvo showroom on the Cork road.

I've been monitoring second hand car prices from Boland's dealerships for a while now and have noticed that they are kept artificially high. They transfer cars between dealerships if required, but overall, there's little competition in the Waterford market to bring prices down. The smart Waterford person would travel out of town for their car.

FYI: Eamonn Boland also owns the Hertz business in Ireland. He thinks nothing of pumping in 100's of thousands in to his rallying pass time. Fair play to him, but he has the market in Wateford sewn up.

AlanD

knife_fighter,

you have to admit though that a certain amount of price fixing goes on.

Although, what was reported on the program wasn't entirely accurate, the price "recommendations" and associated fines for breach of agreement went on for more dealers than what was mentioned. I mean for more than just Citroen, Mitsubishi, etc.

I get what you are saying though, margins are not all the big. RRP is a bull****, top end figure that's used to help a dealer bring in a second hand car for a price that will allow him to make a profit on it's resale. The smart buyer will always be able to get an excellent deal, because there'll always be another customer who will pay over the odds for your trade in to get the money back.

Customer education, which is next to impossible, is the best way to deal with car salesmen, but it's a complicated area and only a handful of lucky people will ever have the knowledge they need to bargain for that great deal.

The cash price is what you really want to pay for a car. Then bring it on down.

maidhc

AlanD wrote:

I've been monitoring second hand car prices from Boland's dealerships for a while now and have noticed that they are kept artificially high.

I remeber a few years ago we called in there with an A4 to trade against either a C-Class or another Audi.

C-Class was out of the question, but there was thousands (cant rememeber exactly, but in the order of 3-4k) between his price for the Audi and Newmarket Motors.

knifey_spoonie

@ alan

One franchise (Skoda) was caught during a meeting in portlaoise, that was a few years ago

RedorDead

As MercMad said, all the new dealer showrooms you see are a direct result of EU Block Exemption laws designed to bring showroom standards into the 21st century. The dealers have no choice with the matter its either conform or lose your contract, and i know alot of businesses simply couldnt afford it and have turned to second hand business solely.

In terms of price fixing, its all down to simple maths. If a dealer buys a car off the distributor for 10k and the car has a rrp of 13.5k (nearer to 14.4k once you add in metallic and delivery. The dealer still needs to find his margin somewhere. All dealers are invoiced the same money for the car, its just down to the individual dealer how much of a discount they wish to offer.

It goes with every distributor in Ireland.

Gatster

Eamonn Boland also owns the Hertz business in Ireland. He thinks nothing of pumping in 100's of thousands in to his rallying pass time. Fair play to him, but he has the market in Wateford sewn up

Another cracking scheme Bolands have is 'demonstrator' cars that are actually ex-rental (usually more expensive, low volume rental vehicles). They also sell/buy to Hertz to alter their sales figures...But VW do this with Avis as Ford did with Hertz.
Having met various members of the Boland clan, I'll say this for them, they are absolutley minted (which is fair enough!), so no matter how small their margins, they seem to be doing alright!

maidhc

Gatster wrote:

Having met various members of the Boland clan, I'll say this for them, they are absolutley minted (which is fair enough!), so no matter how small their margins, they seem to be doing alright!

People forget that dealers also engage in a highly lucrative business known as "Servicing", and even better still "Repairs". If you happen to have a BMW and Mercedes franchise... well.