Dr Roger West

godtabh

Was a civil engineering student awhile back.

West was the head of it then but I heard that Marget O Mahony is in charge now.

Does any one know what happened?

Yeah, Westy had business planned for the first term, so he said how he couldn't go for HoD. Margaret was unopposed, I believe.

Westy's still around, but he's busy (and may be in other countries!). Sound guy.

xeduCat

You know the way in dodgy horror movies that heads rotate? Usually with bulging eyeballs and all that.

Well, headship of a department rotates too, by convention. And West had done his duty, and now gets to escape it for a while (while being head of a school is now a powerful job, head of dept/discipline is pretty thankless). So Margaret 'I'm going to solve Dublin's transport chaos' O'Mahony is having a go now...

kearnsr

kearnsr wrote:

I heard that west got the elbow for genearlly acting the bollox and upsetting staff and students

I'd doubt that one about students, especially since West was the one who carried and increased fund raising for the Barcelona trip every year (which I heard is in doubt this year). The guy had an open door policy which actually meant an open door policy! There was always queues to see him, and the guy used to stay 'til 9 or 10 on Friday just to get the work done.

Wasnt Perry in charge for years before his death? You'll never see the like of him again. Total opposite to West and O'Mahony.

Perry was before my time, so I've no benchmark on this. West in senior freshman came across as harsh, but in JS he really was fantastic. He's one of those people who wouldn't get pissed off if you challenged him, he'd respect you more because of it.

godtabh

EduMyth wrote:

West was the one who carried and increased fund raising for the Barcelona trip every year (which I heard is in doubt this year).

Fundraising was done every year for this. Perry even left a fund for people who couldnt afford to go so that any one who wanted to go could go.

For our class trip to Barca he wouldnt let me and the people I hung around with go. We were one of the first to have our deposits paid and he said there wasnt enough room only to let any one else who wanted to go go.

EduMyth wrote:

I'd doubt that one about students

In the early days of the cuts alot of students where p!ssed of with him over lack of classes/lectures etc. Compared to the year before me we only did about half the labs/tutorials. But I suppose this isnt really his fault.

But the main reason I dont like him was because he told a girl who's mother had just died and who's grand mother was all most dead that if she started her final exams and her grandmother passed away that she would fail the year by not finishing the exams or she would have to carry on. The way he said it and the timing really upset a few people.

I've had many dealings with him. Cant say all where good and this is the reason why I dont like him.

Boston

But the main reason I dont like him was because he told a girl who's mother had just died and who's grand mother was all most dead that if she started her final exams and her grandmother passed away that she would fail the year by not finishing the exams or she would have to carry on. The way he said it and the timing really upset a few people.

So is your problem that he told her the truth, or that the policy is inflexible?

godtabh

LiouVille wrote:

So is your problem that he told her the truth, or that the policy is inflexible?

Its the way he told it to her. Her mother was died a couple of days before the exams were meant to start. He more or less gave yes no answers at a time where a bit of compassion wouldnt have went a miss.

He is inflexible inregard to other things. As for exam procedures the person in question was looking for advice more than anything and all she got was a bureaucratic response.

ISAW

EduMyth wrote:

Yeah, Westy had business planned for the first term, so he said how he couldn't go for HoD. Margaret was unopposed, I believe.

Westy's still around, but he's busy (and may be in other countries!). Sound guy.

Heres my two cents on this one:

Heads of dept frequently rotate. I don't think with the new vice deandries that departments have the autonomy they used to. the whole shebang about restructuring was really about autonomy and basically about whether each element controls their own destiny (budget). How amny more measurements have to seen to measure "efficiency"? how can you judge whether a particular department school or faculty is "delivering value for money"? that is what the real issue is! It is a very difficult thing to judge. Academics and the public service are "safe" in tenured jobs so there is no impetus on them to care.

as it happens some of them DO care and DO get involved in the broader "Trinity experience." they don't get any stipend for it either. This goes from students to senior academics (senior administrators in comparison rarely involve themselves in Trinity except in social functions or some "kudos" gaining exercises though there are exceptions to this also.)


Students are usually the most idealistic and have the most time to give. Sadly they are usually mostly not clued in, have radical ideas (which the academics may either forget when they get tenure or go arrogant with them) and may be inept. In the main the young peoples energy is a boon for any institution and should be harnessed and nourished and not necessarily regulated and given a sop now and again.

At the same time some may learn to be self seeking self centered uncaring tunnel visioned rule quoting arrogant
... sorry I was on STUDENTS wasnt I?... I forgot

Anyway, West (and I dont mean the other one I mean the engineer) is one of the academics who HAS been involved! He has a record in DUCAC involvement for example ( I still dont mean the other one).

I could go on but I wont. I know four department heads form one particular department who have rotated over the last four years. One of them is even involved in much broader issues such as the Mayo pipeline. The idea that a head changes really is NOT a significant political change in most cases.

The point to me is that EVERYONE should contribute to the society we are in. Whatever their position. They have a duty to do so! Whether that be where you work, at home in a factory in a library, how you play sports, college societies, macra na feirme whatever.

It is called the social fabric and it is something that is under attack with big business "economic efficiencies" and socialist beaurocratic regulations. Sadly it is rarer the senior academic and administrative people and on 150,000 a year plus pension (for life in a job they can NOT be removed from -this includes trade union bosses and senior civil servants) and the businessmen who go to meetings where they own companies and ask workers to take a 50 percent pay cut while awarding themselves 500,000 bonuses (for going to meetings) seem to have the time out from their busy schedules to contribute to this "social capital".
They eat in the same restuarants however.

College isn't all about getting grants and passing exams. Nor it it about academics getting 3 per cent benchmarking increases when The DIT got eleven and the senior admin got much much more than that! But some people still like to believe it is all about pay and conditions and the wider society does not matter.

godtabh

ISAW wrote:

Anyway, West (and I dont mean the other one I mean the engineer) is one of the academics who HAS been involved! He has a record in DUCAC involvement for example ( I still dont mean the other one).

He is meant to be a good Hockey player but chickened out when we asked him to get a lectures team together for a football match

Nietzschean

post deleted , no attacking people on here. Especially not lecturers/staff members, this is not the place for it.

Any further swipes/insults about the staff member in question shall see this thread locked and possibly the offending user banned.

cuckoo

I know nothing about the eng dept, but i agree with ISAW's post. It can be seen so obviously among the student body, there's a small core group of people that get involved with running clubs, socs, pubs and the union - the rest coast through obliviously in a haze of me fein.

Maybe there could be an way for students to nominate staff members that get involved, those tutors that give their home phone numbers to students, the lecturers that make themselves available to students outside of the 'three minutes at the end of the lecture', etc, and there could be some way of recognising them. The SU could organise it?

ISAW

cuckoo wrote:

I know nothing about the eng dept, but i agree with ISAW's post. It can be seen so obviously among the student body, there's a small core group of people that get involved with running clubs, socs, pubs and the union - the rest coast through obliviously in a haze of me fein.

Maybe there could be an way for students to nominate staff members that get involved, those tutors that give their home phone numbers to students, the lecturers that make themselves available to students outside of the 'three minutes at the end of the lecture', etc, and there could be some way of recognising them. The SU could organise it?

This is a very good suggestion.

There are awards for teaching staff for "decent skins" who do the sort of thing you mention (and it DOES involve a stipend for the lecturer). I would suggest you look into it and actually politicise the issue. I mean the students themselves having some say into who is regarded as an all roung good egg.
there are a host of invisible "committees" in College which those not in the know never become aware of and consequently never get to influence.


Of course you will get the "it is only a popularity contest" detractors. I am not suggesting the students should be making the decision just that they have a decent input. Mind you many of the staff might well tell you they feel they have little or no input into decisions or feel part of an overall culture. It is very important we don't all fall into that trap of being isolated wage slaves fearing change and lacking vision unless there is something in it for us individually.

godtabh

As far as I know the civil engineers can elect two memebers to some board of comitee which has decision making powers.

Which I think is a good thing.

But as for people who just coast through college and look after them selfs I think this depends on the course.

When I was there I was in from 9 in the morning to 10 at night nearly every day be it for lectures,study, training or playing football with Trinity. Not every one has the time to make this world a better place

ISAW

kearnsr wrote:

As far as I know the civil engineers can elect two memebers to some board of comitee which has decision making powers.

Which I think is a good thing.

But as for people who just coast through college and look after them selfs I think this depends on the course.

But I wasnt referring to students. I was refering to others.

When I was there I was in from 9 in the morning to 10 at night nearly every day be it for lectures,study, training or playing football with Trinity. Not every one has the time to make this world a better place

I sympathise with this point oif view. especially when it comes to the like of medical students who rarely get involved in the "trinity experience".
But frankly whether you think you have the time or not the duty is still there!
We hear a lot about responsibility and entitlements but little about duties.

godtabh

ISAW wrote:

But I wasnt referring to students. I was refering to others.



I sympathise with this point oif view. especially when it comes to the like of medical students who rarely get involved in the "trinity experience".
But frankly whether you think you have the time or not the duty is still there!
We hear a lot about responsibility and entitlements but little about duties.

I know every one should contribute to the Trinity experience but I'm saying its not all practical every one be it student, lecture or what ever.

I helped out during freshers week with the football club. I coached the freshers soccer club.

I know people who did alot more.

I also know people who did alot less!

ApeXaviour

kearnsr wrote:

I also know people who did alot less!

Hello!

Got involved with physoc a little this year however. Amends must be made

cuckoo

I do understand that some students are swamped with part time work, heavy lecture loads and, in some courses, spend little time on the 'main' campus - but there are some people who treat trinity as almost a '9 to 5' job. Maybe it's predominantly people from Dublin, but there are people who don't even seem to spend half an hour a week sitting drinking a cup of coffee in the buttery or whatever. They're straight out of the place as soon as possible to get home to their 'real' friends and 'real' lives. We (the "student body") spend so much time together i just don't understand why some people invest so little in their time here in TCD - they're just passing through.

Yes, college can be a bit of an alienating place - but investing a little time makes it a warmer place for everyone to be in. I'm talking about the people who sit in lectures and almost proudly declare 'sure, i've never gone to any of that society/ents rubbish'.

Pet

Let them at it. They don't know what they're missing to be honest.

Same goes for people here in halls who never come out of their rooms and feck off home to mammy and daddy after the last lecture on friday evening.

Their loss.

ISAW

Pet wrote:

Let them at it. They don't know what they're missing to be honest.

Same goes for people here in halls who never come out of their rooms and feck off home to mammy and daddy after the last lecture on friday evening.

Their loss.

It is not just THEIR loss! It is our loss! It is the loss of Dublin, the loss of the country. And if they have that attitude you need only look to their peers, their parents and their social groups whether sutdents or where from where they come.

But if students "clock on and off" like union rule quoting wage slaves to some degree then staff are much much worse. Mind you in my opinion it is not the academic staff that head the league on this one but the administrative staff. How many of them are involved in committes that are not relaated to their paid job?

Crash

I dunno, it really pisses me when some people dont bother getting involved. for instance atm i'm legging it around like a mad yoke trying to organise a CS department christmas party, finish my assignments, and finish a surf trip video. on the first count, i think 1 of the other years reps has actually offered a hand. ONE. the others just pissed about and asked "whens the ****ing party like?"

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

TheGrinch_000 wrote:

I dunno, it really pisses me when some people dont bother getting involved. for instance atm i'm legging it around like a mad yoke trying to organise a CS department christmas party, finish my assignments, and finish a surf trip video. on the first count, i think 1 of the other years reps has actually offered a hand. ONE. the others just pissed about and asked "whens the ****ing party like?"

Raises his hand... I AM THAT ONE!

Anyway, I dunno... I'm JF and I'm having a ball in Trinity going to as much ****e as I can - from class rep stuff, School committee meetings, society events, Peer Support Network, supporting the sports clubs, and, as soon as my fscking knee heals, I'll be playing rugby. I guess, in a way, College is quite like more or less everything else in life - you'll only get out of it what you put it. In some places though, College being a fine example of this, if you contribute just a little bit you'll often find you get an incredible return on your investment!

Woo Trinity!!

Ron DMC

TheGrinch_000 wrote:

"whens the ****ing party like?"

That almost sounds like a direct quote from me.

Crash

Well check your mail you lazy ****

in two days, i managed to get a party. including junior dean permission, which is supposed to be 7 days in advance. i am a GOD.