Eircom & Comreg - please help me!!

cttc

my first post and i need some help/advice.

early this year (february i think) i signed up for the eircom free trial. i was away when the modem was delivered - i never signed for it - i didn't receive it and since then i forgot all about BB. recently i noticed my direct debit bills where high and when i queried Eircom they told me that the charges where due to my BB and that i had exceeded my download limits.

i kindly explained that i didn't have BB and the kindly girl said that she would sort it out and i'd receive an appropriate refund. when i checked my direct debits again a month or 2 later they where still high. i rang eircom back and after much to'ing and fro'ing through customer care i was put in touch with someone whose job was BB complaints w/n Eircom. not only did he tell me that i have BB he was able to show me stats for the number of hours i was online and my upload/download usage (http://broadbanddownload.eircom.net). based on his info, the charges from september - april where correct, he wouldn't be changing his mind and if i wanted to pursue the matter further i could go to comreg.

i don't have BB
i have never had BB
no one in my house has BB
eircom's broadband usage/stats for me are wrong
to access the internet i use modem dial up

is comreg my only course - how do i prove to this little !"£$ that i don't have BB and how can i get my money back from eircom.

if anyone has had a similar experience with eircom, please please advise.

thanks

pizzahead77

email both eircom's CEO Phil Nolan at phil.nolan@eircom.ie and comreg at consumerline@comreg.ie.

Usually when Phil Nolan is emailed things do tend to get sorted at ericom.

Sponge Bob

This is unusual but it has happened ( cannot reveal any more) .

Do you live in an apartment block where your BB could have been tapped into, diverted and stolen in effect , by a neighbour .

Can you borrow a DSL modem and plug it into your line . Is there a 'synch' light ? is it on OR off ?

If there is no 'synch' light there is no DSL signal within your premises. Call the guards and report the theft and let them call eircom out to trace the line etc . At this time your complaint to the police is that Eircom are stealing money from your bank account but the real thief will only be caught when Eircom check the line properly to establish where the DSL is being used . They will do this for the guard if the guard can say you demonstrated that you have no signal in your premiese (synch) and could not use DSL no matter what Eircom says.

I do accept that someone is using the DSL ! Do not contact Phil Nolan at this time , let the guards deal with it. You may contact him for a refund later because Eircom did not take your word and did not investigate the fraud when they should have so they should take the hit not you.

HTH .

gombín

Let's not kid ourselves here. Mailing Comreg on this is about as much use as poking oneself in the eye. They will only forward this on to Eircom again for investigation.

If there are download statistics for your no., there is DSL activity on your line (with or without your knowledge). The statistics work in the same way as a meter on your line for voice calls (i.e the responsibilty for any access to their network from a point inside your house is your responsibiltiy).

Unless you can physically prove that your line has been tampered with, Eircom would be perfectly entitled to maintain the charge.

Let me know if you need any advice.

Regards.

Sponge Bob

gomb&#237 wrote: »

Unless you can physically prove that your line has been tampered with, Eircom would be perfectly entitled to maintain the charge.

Absolutely, this applies to all DSL providers not just Eircom .

Snaga

Eircoms stats are tied into the username and password used.

All it would take is someone with DSL with any provider that resells off of Eircom - to have taken his package and used his username and password on his welcome letter.

They dont have to 'tap into his line' or any of that fun stuff.


<edit - Ah things have changed I see - oh well>

gombín

This is incorrect. The stats are accessed on their website using a phone no. and account no., but are calculated on line usage.

Snaga wrote:

Eircoms stats are tied into the username and password used.

kaizersoze

Snaga wrote:

Eircoms stats are tied into the username and password used.

All it would take is someone with DSL with any provider that resells off of Eircom - to have taken his package and used his username and password on his welcome letter.

They dont have to 'tap into his line' or any of that fun stuff.

Eircom do not assign each customer an individual username/password. They have 1 default set and everyone uses that.
Username: eircom@eircom.ie
Password: broadband1
The stats are measured on the line. gombin is correct.

TinCool

kaizersoze wrote:

Eircom do not assign each customer an individual username/password. They have 1 default set and everyone uses that.
Username: eircom@eircom.ie
Password: broadband1
The stats are measured on the line. gombin is correct.

Not entirely accurate either. I have my own perosnal username and password for dsl with Eircom. Granted, I've had it for well over a year now. My mate has his own personal username and pass also. May be Eircom are now issuing standard username/pass that you mentioned above.

TC

Sponge Bob

kaizersoze wrote:

gombín is correct.

gombín is ALWAYS correct !

gombín

Sponge Bob wrote:

gombín is ALWAYS correct !

High praise indeed! Anymore of this and I'll have to give serious consideration to running for public office.

Regards.

Sponge Bob

you are an authority in the Biblical sense so mammon is not for you I fear

cttc

to everyone so far many thanks...

i'm living in a semi-deatched in a housing estate and only have 1 phone socket. how/who can i check to see if it the line has been tampered. i firmly thought this was a problem in eircom's numbers but i'm getting a sense from this thread that if there is usage against my number then it's being actively used.

i had thought of connecting a BB modem to my line to see if a link light exists but i've ceased the DSL connection with eircom.

the amount of money involved here isn't large (just over 200euro) but i'm damned if i'm giving eircom something for nothing. also their customer "don't" care department have really p!ssed me off.

i havn't had BB from anyone why should i have 2 put up with this from eircom....i must have some recourse somewhere...

Sponge Bob

Dude.

SOMEONE is using it . If you have one phone point and no synch light its not you so its someone else who "interfered with the telegraphs" or some such heinous crime for which they will be jailed if caught.

Unless they are caught you are liable to pay eircom the money.

Borrow that DSL modem and tell us if it sees a signal and synchs and maybe do a bit of visual cable following on your phone line if you can . Once you can establish it CANNOT be you then its Garda Station time. Please do that for us and post back in here.

steve-o

OP, you either have a contract with Eircom or you don't and that's what decides whether you get your money back or not. If someone is stealing BB, they are stealing mostly from Eircom, except for the excess usage charges that you have incurred. If that's not a big amount I'd forget about it.

From what you said, it seems to me that unfortunately you have a contract with Eircom, even though you never used the services you signed up for (unless you cancelled the order). But... it's not always that simple: if Eircom never delivered the modem (or delivered it to the wrong address), then you can argue that they failed to fulfill an essential part of the contract, but if they can show they made several attempts to deliver it then they can argue that they made every attempt to keep their side of the bargain, meaning the contract is valid.

That's up to a judge in the Small Claims Court to decide because Eircom aren't known for kindness or sympathy so they'll keep the money if they think it is rightly theirs. What you have in your favour is that big companies tend to not answer those cases, in which case they automatically lose.

Gaz25

i understand the situation you are in and if you dont use your broadband and you never have then they should take your word for it. I know myself that as a ISP they can check the log on times that you were connected and using your broadband connection. The first thing i would do if i was you would check if any next door neighbours have BB, if it was a Wo connection they could be using your broadband connection and its very easy to do if itsd not protected with a password.

I would also try get the times of the last month and check the times and dates and see where you were. Where you in Work?, pub?, shopping? that sort of stuff and then i would comeg and ask them if they could investigate.

I would say someone is hacking in to your broadband connection and using your details, but that someone would have to live very close and no there stuff when it comes to broadband and computers.

keep us informed as to what happens.

Any more questions you may have i would be happy to help:D

mayhem#

I suggest you follwo the instructions below;

Have you signed a contract with Eircom for the provision of broadband?

If so you are bound to pay them as stipulated in the contract. It does not matter if you have or have not used the broadband connection, you've entered in a perfectly legal & binding contract. If the contract is in place and you suspect that someone else is using the connection I suggest that you ask everyone in your building, If that doesn't solve the matter contact the Gardai.
If you have not signed a contract I suggest that you first cancel the direct debit. After that you should send Eircom a registered letter outlining the situation (and clearly outline your attempts at resolving the sitiation). Tell them that unless they can produce a contract signed by you that you give them 5 working days to rectify the situation and to refund all the payments charged to your account. Clearly state that if they fail to do so you will hand the matter over to your sollicitor who will instigate legal action against them for fraud & theft. Also state that you will contact Comreg & the national press.

I would be very surprised if that does not get matters resolved pronto...

E.

Gaz25

Hey cttc,

Listen i know what im talking about, so do not canel her direct debit as(mayhem) suggested. I know most ISP dont give you a contract to sign, but if you signed up on-line on there website, then you have agreed to terms and conditions of your broadband. Legally once you have agreed to this you are unable to cancel unless it was for a 6month or 12month after that you can cancel no problem and no questions.

The first thing you should do is to ring your ISP and cancel your contract if you can. I would then ask for a copy or times and date's if they can to send you so you can check the times and date's.

Don't cancel your direct debit unless they agree to terminate you broadband which can take a couple of weeks. If you cancel and you are still under your agreement that you agreed when you signed up for, then they will send you a letter warning you are you ahve broke the terms and conditions. They can legally take you to court and you would be fined for breaking a agreement you that you already agreed to when you signed up for your broadband.

I know as i have heard of a couple of case's where this has happened where i work.

I said before someone must be hacking your connection using a wireless setup, so if you can get prove that you or nobody else was there at the time, then i would contact the guards as it a crimal offence being committed and who ever (if) will be committing fraud as a result.

I have a mate across the road who's brother is using my broadband connection for his PSP, so it can be done, no doubt about it.

Best of luck.

mayhem#

Gaz25 wrote:

Hey cttc,

Listen i know what im talking about as i said i work for a ISP, so do not canel her direct debit previous thread said. I know most ISP dont give you a contract to sign, but if you signed up on-line on there website, then you hae agreed to terms and conditions of your broadband. Legally once you have agreed to this you are unable to cancel unless it was for a 6month or 12month after that you can cancel no problem and no questions.

Hello?! That is called a contract!
Do you want me to define the meaning of the word "contract" to you?

The first thing you should do is to ring your ISP and cancel your contract if you can. I would then ask for a copy or times and date's if they can to send you so you can check the times and date's.

Don't cancel your direct debit unless they agree to terminate you broadband which can take a couple of weeks. If you cancel and you are still under your agreement that you agreed when you signed up for, then they will send you a letter warning you are you ahve broke the terms and conditions. They can legally take you to court and you would be fined for breaking a agreement you that you already agreed to when you signed up for your broadband.

I know as i have heard of a couple of case's where this has happened where i work.

I said before someone must be hacking your connection using a wireless setup, so if you can get prove that you or nobody else was there at the time, then i would contact the guards as it a crimal offence being committed and who ever (if) will be committing fraud as a result.

I have a mate across the road who's brother is using my broadband connection for his PSP, so it can be done, no doubt about it.

Best of luck.

Jeeezzz, do you work for IBB by any chance?

E.

cttc

again thanks for suggestions...

i have cancelled my direct debit
i have cancelled BB

i don't have an internet modem let alone a wireless router that someone can hack into my BB....given this surely a hacker needs to physically hack my phone line - definitely not as i have 1 and only 1 phone socket and i can see cable back to my junction box!!! (i'm in a semi-d and i suspect neighour needs to come through the wall)

i can prove and i've told eircom that i was out of the country when i was supposedly online - they didn't care.

i can't get the guards to my house - what am i going to show them - here's my phone socket and junction box now please find out who has hacked into my BB

i'll ask again - is there anyway that eircom's usage numbers are wrong and if so how do i prove it

Gaz25

(mayhem) No I dont work for IBB. When i want your opion on this i'll ask but i dont think you have a clue really about contract's. Did you ever sign a contract with a ISP eehhhhhhhhhhhhh dont think so.

You dont sign contract's with a ISP you agree to the terms and conditions of the package you agree to when you sign up on-line or order on the phone.

TERMS AND CONDITION'S is a contract but "YOU ONLY AGREE "

dub45

cttc wrote:

my first post and i need some help/advice.

early this year (february i think) i signed up for the eircom free trial. i was away when the modem was delivered - i never signed for it - i didn't receive it and since then i forgot all about BB. .............................
if anyone has had a similar experience with eircom, please please advise.

thanks

How can you forget about signing up for something like bb? (Most people cant stop thinking about it from the time they put the phone down after ordering!!!)

Did you not make any arrangements about delivery of the modem? Particularly as you were going away (Again most people are out at work during the day and have to make suitable arrangements to make sure the modem can be delivered)

Did you get any notice put in your door saying that Eircom had attempted to deliver the modem?

Did you not get any monthly bills showing a charge for bb?

And since when have Eircom started charging for excessive use?

Gaz25

(mayhem) No I dont work for IBB. When i want your opion on this i'll ask but i dont think you have a clue really about contract's. Did you ever sign a contract with a ISP eehhhhhhhhhhhhh dont think so.

You dont sign contract's with a ISP you agree to the terms and conditions of the package you agree to when you sign up on-line or order on the phone.

TERMS AND CONDITION'S is a contract but "YOU ONLY AGREE "

dub45

Gaz25 wrote:

(mayhem) No I dont work for IBB. When i want your opion on this i'll ask but i dont think you have a clue really about contract's. Did you ever sign a contract with a ISP eehhhhhhhhhhhhh dont think so.

You dont sign contract's with a ISP you agree to the terms and conditions of the package you agree to when you sign up on-line or order on the phone.

TERMS AND CONDITION'S is a contract but "YOU ONLY AGREE "

The whole issue of Terms and Conditions needs looking at I think.

For instance I cannot see why all the isps do not automatically email a copy of terms and conditions to each person that signs up. They should also be required to summarise any and all financial issues on and notificiation of termination requirements on the front of the document so that they are not buried somewhere deep down in the T&C·s.

This would be in everyones interest.

Gaz25

Dub45, I totally agree as that is the problem that the company i have work for. Customer's qucikly scroll through the terms and select agree to them. When there told they have agreed to the terms and conditions of a 12month contract, they go off on one.
The only way they can get out of the contract is to pay up the rest in full. There has being case's where customers sign up for another ISP and there still in there 12month contract and my ISP wont release the line so they now to contracts.

Its F**king Bull**** the way it works.

dub45

Gaz25 wrote:

Dub45, I totally agree as that is the problem that the company i have work for. Customer's qucikly scroll through the terms and select agree to them. When there told they have agreed to the terms and conditions of a 12month contract, they go off on one.
The only way they can get out of the contract is to pay up the rest in full. There has being case's where customers sign up for another ISP and there still in there 12month contract and my ISP wont release the line so they now to contracts.

Its F**king Bull**** the way it works.

The companies should do more to clarify things for their customers - but unfortunately people dont bother enough with terms and conditions either.

When I very recently attempted to bring Clearwires appalling terms and conditions regarding renewal to peoples attention I was accused of working for the opposition. (In spite of promises they have still not changed them!)

There really should be a code of conduct among the isps encouraged by Comreg on the whole issue of terms and conditions.

mayhem#

Gaz25 wrote:

You dont sign contract's with a ISP you agree to the terms and conditions of the package you agree to when you sign up on-line or order on the phone.

TERMS AND CONDITION'S is a contract but "YOU ONLY AGREE "

Thereby entering it what could be considered a contract.
I might have confused you by referring to a "signed contract" but I was using this term as a manner of speaking. Contract are not solely limited to signed documents. In order for something to be classed as a contract it has to meet the following criteria:

Mutual agreement : There must be an express or implied agreement. The essential requirement is that there be evidence that the parties had each from an objective perspective engaged in conduct manifesting their assent, and a contract will be formed when the parties have met such a requirement. (Notice that the objective mainifestation requirement means that one need not actually have assented so long as a reasonable person would believe that assent had been granted.) For a contract based on offer and acceptance to be enforced, the terms must be capable of determination in a way that it is clear that the parties assent was given to the same terms. The terms, like the manifestation of assent itself, are determined objectively.
Consideration: There must be consideration (see also consideration under English law) given by all the parties, meaning that every party is conferring a benefit on the other party or himself sustaining a recognizable detriment, such as a reduction of the party's alternative courses of action where the party would otherwise be free to act with respect to the subject matter without any limitation.
Competent, Adult (Sui Juris) Parties: Both parties must have the capacity to understand the terms of the contract they are entering into, and the consequences of the promises they make. For example, animals, minor children, and mentally disabled individuals do not have the capacity to form a contract, and any contracts with them will be considered void or voidable. Although corporations are technically legal fictions, they are considered persons under the law, and thus fit to engage in contracts.
For adults, most jurisdictions have statutes declaring that the capacity of parties to a contract is presumed, so that one resisting enforcement of a contract on grounds that a party lacked the capacity to be bound bears the burden of persuasion on the issue of capacity.
Proper Subject Matter: The contract must have a lawful purpose. A contract to commit murder in exchange for money will not be enforced by the courts. It is void ab initio, meaning "from the beginning."
Mutual Right to Remedy: Both parties must have an equal right to remedy upon breach of the terms by the other party
Mutual Obligation to Perform: Both Parties must have some obligation to fulfill to the other. This can be distinct from consideration, which may be an initial inducement into the contract.

Also of importance is the following:

Contrary to common wisdom, an informal exchange of promises can still be binding and legally as valid as a written contract. A spoken contract is often called an "oral contract", not a "verbal contract." Any contract that uses words, spoken or written, is a verbal contract. Thus, all oral contracts and written contracts are verbal contracts. This is in contrast to a "non-verbal, non-oral contract," also known as "a contract implied by the acts of the parties."

This last point will in general also be extended to "internet" agreements. Whereby one completes a forms an ticks a box whereby one agrees to the supplied terms & conditions.
I might not be exacty right to the letter of Irish law but I think that the above reasoning (with some minor variations) will hold up in any irish courtroom...

E.

Sponge Bob

Cttc.

You are not going to the guards (which is your choice) therefore no crime will be investigated or discovered. I feel you are being shortsighted as there could be a warez site or kiddieporn site or torrent seed on a BB connection which is in your name but thats another risk you take and that is ultimately your choice.

Therefore you must pay up in full for the full 12 month contract and hope that there was nothing dodgy being hosted on that connection that could come back to haunt you at 6am some morning when the door is battered in by the plod .

Good luck.

thirdmantackle

if you agreed to Broadband over the phone then that is a verbal contract

same as signing a contract

arcane99

Strip out the cable from your phone socket, and place 12v onto the cable to see can you blow the modem or pc.

Tank Top Fever!

cttc wrote:

my first post and i need some help/advice.

early this year (february i think) i signed up for the eircom free trial. i was away when the modem was delivered - i never signed for it - i didn't receive it and since then i forgot all about BB. recently i noticed my direct debit bills where high and when i queried Eircom they told me that the charges where due to my BB and that i had exceeded my download limits.

i kindly explained that i didn't have BB and the kindly girl said that she would sort it out and i'd receive an appropriate refund. when i checked my direct debits again a month or 2 later they where still high. i rang eircom back and after much to'ing and fro'ing through customer care i was put in touch with someone whose job was BB complaints w/n Eircom. not only did he tell me that i have BB he was able to show me stats for the number of hours i was online and my upload/download usage (http://broadbanddownload.eircom.net). based on his info, the charges from september - april where correct, he wouldn't be changing his mind and if i wanted to pursue the matter further i could go to comreg.

i don't have BB
i have never had BB
no one in my house has BB
eircom's broadband usage/stats for me are wrong
to access the internet i use modem dial up

is comreg my only course - how do i prove to this little !"£$ that i don't have BB and how can i get my money back from eircom.

if anyone has had a similar experience with eircom, please please advise.

thanks

the important part of this for me is that eircom are now charging for exceeding download limits?

Gaz25

Thirdmantackle agrees with me about the contract situation

Mayhem i think your right and im right. Im only saying what a ISP would say thats all.

dub45

Tank Top Fever! wrote:

the important part of this for me is that eircom are now charging for exceeding download limits?

Indeed it was this very thing which made me wonder about the validity of the original post. If Eircom have started charging for exceeding download limits surely boards would be full of complaints warnings etc_

Tank Top Fever!

dub45 wrote:

Indeed it was this very thing which made me wonder about the validity of the original post. If Eircom have started charging for exceeding download limits surely boards would be full of complaints warnings etc_

I know yea, guess I have to wait until the bill comes to see if this is true. Hope it's not, I've had a bit of a leeching month

Slice

Write a complaint letter to Eircom, mark it for the attention of their director of customer care. Assuming you ordered broadband, cancelled it, and was never in receipt of a broadband modem then you have sufficient grounds to seek redress.

Basically you need to outline your case reasonable, admit where you need to where you could have done more to deal with the situation then outline why they should repay you the monies deducted from your account.

In your complaint letter you should big-up the point that you never received a broadband modem - ask them for a copy of the form you would have needed to sign to accept delivery of the modem, send copies of your itemised bills showing your usage of internet on conventional dial-up at the times you alledgely had broadband. Advise them you will take it up further with ComReg on their failure to adequetly respond to your points raised. Also let them know you're willing to report this as a fraud/securty issue with the guards if necessary and if they require