Game selling to minors, policy?

KdjaCL

Suppose Evad and Kirby will answer soon enough


Was in Game in Liffey Valley today buying BF2:SF in front of me was a kid no more than 12 with GTA LCS in his hand. Bloke at till said he couldnt sell it to him, all the while looking nervous as everyone in the q was an adult cept for the kid. The kid leaves and finds someone to buy it for him and goes back in (long q) eventually both of us are getting served and this woman is asked by shop dude does she know its an 18s game. To which she replies "yes its fine".

I have kids and at this point im shocked its an 18s game for a reason. So the kid hands over the cash and gets the game and as i was leaving i was wondering, can Game sell to a minor even tho they are accompanied by an adult or is no sale regardless. Also off licences wont sell beer to someone if they think its for minors, do shops have the same type policy?

Unreal that this woman got it for him, i was beside them and neither seemed to have met each other before and it was fairly obvious to me.


kdjac

grimloch

It varies from salesperson to salesperson. I've been buying eighteens games for a good few years now and I've never been refused but I have seen people being refused twice, maybe three times in all my time in game shops. After the buyer 14 or 15 they'll most likely sell it to them although things may have changed recently.

I'm sure there's something involving the term "suggested viewing age" so I'm not sure if anyone can actually get in trouble for selling GTA or somesuch to a youngster.

Ri_Nollaig

KdjaC wrote:

Also off licences wont sell beer to someone if they think its for minors, do shops have the same type policy?

well the law is much more strict for that i.e. they cud lose their licences
dont think they are really too pushed about games some places do some dont. i dont think there is a set age limit and laws enforcing it like they do for movies etc or atleast there wasnt...
but i have noticed, alot of the new ones like FEAR or quake4 have it written in very big writing on the front. 18's

Stephen

Yep, as far as I know there's no legally enforced age regulation on games, as they're not reviewed by the irish censor. The age ratings on them are advisory, and its up to the shop whether or not to sell them to minors.

cue someone with legal skills to blow this out of the water now :v:

Hugh Hefner

I hate it when shops withhold games from minors. I mean, it's not illegal, under the constitution video games can't be censored like films and such and so it's just the shops being annoying and trying to what, look good in front of the government? **** that.

BlitzKrieg

Hugh Hefner wrote:

I hate it when shops withhold games from minors. I mean, it's not illegal, under the constitution video games can't be censored like films and such and so it's just the shops being annoying and trying to what, look good in front of the government? **** that.

Its not illegal for them not to sell games to minors either. Game have the right to refuse to sell anyone any game, its just bad buisness to do such a thing, hence Its a matter for the shop of public relations and for the parents an element of control over the material thier children can view.


I'm unsure how i would have responded when i was younger, i grew up with 18 films and a slew of computer games when there were'nt any certificates for them(but also blood and nudity were red and pink pixals aswell).

But today i feel it is primarily the parents decission, the shop should be allowed to deny a minor any video game which is rated unsuitable, unless their parents or similar guardian allows it.

Yes it can be seen as unfair. But its not a matter of the shops. THEY DONT KNOW YOU! Your parents SHOULD!

therefore if like me, your parents feel your responsible enough to take GTA at the age of 12 then there shouldnt be a problem, if your parents are ignorant of the matter and will still buy the game for you. THen hooray for you! But personnaly i would perfer if my parents knew what sort of games i played and approved.

i was beside them and neither seemed to have met each other before and it was fairly obvious to me.

i'm curious if game is allowed ask for some form of verification that she is the child's parent/relation. I know its stupidly difficult, and the only practical way would to be a nanny state and bloody id codes on everyone. Which i'm against.

Game cant accuse someone of not being related to a child, that can get the staffmember fired. So once the woman says its ok the member of staff has no real power over the situation.

flogen

as above, the PEGI rating is a guideline and nothing more, however most stores take it as law and will not sell to an underaged customer.
When I worked in game I'd generally be the same as above, but I'd tell the parent that I'd have to do the transaction with them and not the child, it's a minor detail but there's no technicalities involved. If a parent is happy to buy a game for their kid, so be it, there's nothing stopping them once they've gotten past their own moral dilemmas (if they were intelligent enough to even have one)

qz

I hate all these restrictions on video games. It's called a game for a reason.

projectmayhem

get jack thompson on the case... he'll fix it

Ri_Nollaig

projectmayhem wrote:

jack thompson

that was one of the first things i was thinking when i read the OP post
and im sure he is after a proper rating system in american

i do think they should have it set properly like with movies, after all games have increased alot since "blood was just red pixels" now wit next gen consoles/pc's the graphics arnt far off photorealsim.
but if they DID enforce a proper rating system then there will be a huge decrease in violent games just like violent movies (ie avp was 12's while all the predators and alien films where 18's!) :mad:

ObeyGiant

I was at a round-table discussion about games and certification a while ago and there was a representative of the Irish Film Censors Office there (I forget his name now), and he said that, as well as unconstitutional, it would be prohibitively difficult for them to slap a certificate on games, especially as games have reached the stage where it's possible for one player to have a radically different experience from another.

Personally, I think it's encouraging that these game shops are doing this: without a decent level of self-regulation (and information for the parents - that's where PEGI comes in), the alternative is external regulation. And noone wants that.

monument

Hugh Hefner wrote:

video games can't be censored like films

Yes they can, will you please read what's in your link...

"Under the Video Recordings Act 1989 video games are exempt from classification unless they are deemed prohibitable under section 3 (1) of the Act".

Irishpimpdude

Just got home from the uk last night, and while over there i bought Call of Duty 2 and Battlefield 2 which have 15 and 16+ ratings, i was shocked when she asked am i over 16 and do i have id i just replied no and she said ok and sold them to me lol never been asked for id for even an over 18's game over here...

Agent Orange

It is illegal to sell a game to someone in Ireland if the game has an Irish certificate and the person is younger than that.

If it has an English 18 cert (orange/red circle) or a PEGI cert it isn't binding and it isn't illegal. They have no legal sway.

End of story.

rainbow kirby

Once there's an age rating on games, it's store policy to enforce it. We tend to be reasonably strict about 15, 16 and especially 18-rated games. Doesn't stop every little tracker knacker in Tallaght from trying to get around it though. We do say that they have to have an adult with them for age-rated stuff. In the situation that KdjaC described above, I would have asked the adult did she know the kid. If she'd said no, I wouldn't have sold it. Then again, I have a bit of a reputation for being strict with ID for games.

plonk

When I was 16 I went to smyths in galway to buy GTA Vice City. I had it booked but they refused to sell it to me as i had no ID. Luckily my sister was with me and she bought it for me. I was shocked as a year previous i bought GTA 3 and no ID was asked and I was only 15. It should be enforced, its there for a reason. But thankfully at the time it wasnt as GTA 3 was the best game i have ever played.

honru

I really don't think kids should be playing 18-rated games.

Sorry little Jimmy.

evad_lhorg

I just love seeeing that smile getting wiped of their little faces when i say "sorry its an 18s game im gonna need to see some ID." and its funny asking 15 year olds or so for ID for a 15s game as I know NO people really under 18 who do haeva form of ID.

I asked some guy for ID the other day and he laughed in my face and then his mate came up(two d4 ****) and says to him "whats so funny Fintan?"(fintan wasnt his name but i just think its a posh name). the other one decides hes gonna be the funny man and say "he has the cheek to ask me for ID. I look older than him." to which i replied " oh how old are you then?". "18" he replied so now it was my turn to laugh. "you are only 18 and you expect that you arent gonnna be ID'd. im 20 and i get ID asked in every pub nearly".

some poeple are bent. end of pointless meaningless story


edit:yes i got to the end of that story and just couldnt have been arsed finishing it.

rainbow kirby

evad_lhorg wrote:

I just love seeeing that smile getting wiped of their little faces when i say "sorry its an 18s game im gonna need to see some ID." and its funny asking 15 year olds or so for ID for a 15s game as I know NO people really under 18 who do haeva form of ID.

One of those things that puts a smile on your face on a crap day

Speedway

I work in a gamestop.We have copies of the censor's rulings in the shop.it IS illegal to sell games to minors. the shop can be fined and so can the person selling the game/dvd. it is covered in a ruling. so before people whine and give out all the bull about it being stupid for not selling to minors do a little research and put urself in the shoes of ther person selling the game. if i'm standing there with a 12 year old wanting to but the new 50cent game (18+) or manhunt, would i rather deny the kid the game until his parent comes in or would i rather sell it and endure the p*ssed off parents rants and the chance of a fine of around €20,000.....???

Dont be at yourself

As a former gamestop counterjockey...

Store policy, obviously, is that games rated by the irish censor are not to be sold to any kid underage. Similarly, in a situation like the above, the game wouldn't be sold to the kid, using a stranger as a proxy. On top of this, if a kid has dragged his mother into the store to buy the latest GTA for their darling, a point is made of explaining the rating it has received and why it has received that rating.

PEGI ratings is slightly different. The nasties that nobody wants kids getting their hands on are virtually all run through the censor office, so games carrying PEGI ratings tend to be a lot tamer. The only 18 rating PEGI game I can think of off hand is Timesplitters Future Perfect, which I'm sure everybody will agree is lightyears away in terms of content from the likes of Manhunt and GTA. As such, the decision rests with the store manager, and more usually, the person taking the sale, as to whether the game is sold. Timesplitters won't be sold to a primary-schooler, but probably will be to a 15 or 16 year old.

RE*AC*TOR

In fairness the only way to put an end to all the hysteria surrounding games, kids and violence is to enforce a policy of only selling to a suitable age group. Then the responsibility is shifted from developer/publisher/retailer onto the consumer. Then if anyone thinks teenager x went on a killing spree because of the latest in ugly video games - they can file a spurious lawsuit against his parents/guardians.

As for a little kid being refused then finding an adult in the shop to buy him the game - I would ask what relation the adult has to the kid - and unless he was parent / guardian - I wouldn't sell it.

Hugh Hefner

monument wrote:

Yes they can, will you please read what's in your link...

"Under the Video Recordings Act 1989 video games are exempt from classification unless they are deemed prohibitable under section 3 (1) of the Act".

I'm talking age restrictions, not banning based on incitation of hatred, crimes or content of a depraved nature, as section 3 (1) cites.

FranchisePlayer

sometimes they put 16 age rating like Jade Empire it was not that gory.

evad_lhorg

exactly thats why it was only 15s or whatever. if its gory it will be 18s.