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[Article] 21 problems with Transport 21

  • 26-11-2005 12:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.villagemagazine.ie/article.asp?sid=1&sud=43&aid=714
    21 problems with Transport 21
    by Emma Browne and Colin Murphy
    Thursday, November 10, 2005


    The Government launched Transport 21 with a great fanfare. But the reality is that there has been no breakdown of costs done, and all the rail projects are still subject to public inquiries. Here are 21 things wrong with Transport 21

    1. Martin Cullen

    No credibility, after Farmleigh, e-voting and Monica Leech.



    2. No Costings

    Transport 21 contains no breakdown of costs for the individual projects. They announced that there will be €34 billion allocated, with €8 billion of this coming from Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) and €2 billion of this from toll based investment.



    3. Optimistic Estimates

    Doubt has been cast on Transport 21's estimation that €2 billion will come from toll road based investment. The NRA was quoted as saying that it posed "a not insurmountable challenge". But it is estimated that tolls could only raise only €1.34 billion, giving doubt that €2 billion could be met.



    4. Not enough buses

    At the Transport 21 announcement, Minister for Transport Martin Cullen promised 20 extra buses for Dublin bus immediately. But Dublin needs at least 180 – primarily to provide a frequent service on Quality Bus Corridors (QBCs), such as those installed recently on Merrion Road and Fonthill Road. Although 180 additional buses were promised under the current National Development Plan, this investment has been put on hold by the Government since 2002 until it secures agreement from Dublin Bus and its trade unions on the privatisation of new services.



    5. Not enough QBCs

    The Midterm Evaluation of the National Development Plan by INDECON highlighted that "buses using segregated lanes appear to be a very effective mode at a low cost". They also said there had been an impressive increase in the number of passengers using the QBCs. They said they are "the most cost effective way of improving public transport in the short-run." In relation to rail they said: "Overall, we believe that there may be justification for pursuing future large-scale rail projects but they must be based on careful consideration of the likely costs and benefits and in particular the extent to which higher densities are being delivered on the proposed routes." Transport 21 announced that the Government will double the Quality Bus Corridors in Dublin (QBCs). At the moment there are 12 QBCs in the Dublin region. So that means 12 more corridors over 10 years.



    6. Repetition of previous promises unconvincing

    The extension to the Luas line and the establishment of a metro have been announced in the past by Government. But before, these projects were on a grander scale. In 1999 Mary O'Rourke, then Minister for Transport, said a public consultation on a Luas line from Broadstone to Ballymun and the airport had begun. In November of that year she announced a £500 million contingency provision for an underground element of Luas.

    In 2002 the Dublin Transportation Office announced in its 'Platform for Change' the Luas would be extended to the Docklands. It also announced that there would be a new LUAS line from Ballymun to Dundrum; and from Lucan to the city centre.

    It announced a Metro from Swords to Bray; a line from Tallaght to the city centre; and an orbital line around Tallaght, Clondalkin and Finglas.

    What we are getting in Transport 21 is an extension on the Luas line from Connolly to the Docklands; an extension from Tallaght to Citywest; an extension from Sandyford to Bray; the joining of the two LUAS lines in the city centre; and a new line from Lucan to the city. In terms of metro lines there are two – one from Swords to St Stephen's Green and an orbital line serving Tallaght, Clondalkin, Liffey, Blanchardstown.



    7. Luas overcrowding

    The RPA (Rail Procurement Agency) has said that an additional eight million passengers a year would be accommodated on the Luas with the new lines and extensions. But there is already overcrowding on the existing lines, with customers regularly complaining that they cannot board the trams during rush hour. In particular customers at Windy Arbour say they cannot board. So the additional passengers that would be travelling on to Cherrywood and Bray with the proposed extension will put further pressure on Luas. The RPA said that increasing the frequency of the trams may be an option. The capacity of Luas trams are limited because of the current length of the platforms.



    8. Public Private Partnerships unproven

    Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) are touted in Transport 21 as the source of €8 billion in funding, including €2 billion from toll-roads. But can the private sector be relied upon to invest in transport on this scale, and is the PPP model a viable one? As Edgar Morgenroth of the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) puts it, "there isn't a lot of evidence at this point, and the little evidence we have is not good". The only research into PPPs undertaken in Ireland was a study of school-building projects by the Comptroller and Auditor General, which found that the building of five schools using public-private partnerships would cost eight to 13 per cent more than building them conventionally.



    9. The metro to the airport

    According to Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's experience at other airports, particularly in the UK, has been that less than 25 per cent of passengers travelling to or from an airport use direct rail links. The majority of passengers using an airport travel to that airport either to or from their homes rather than from the centre of the city and therefore use cars or more flexible bus services. With competition between airports and low-cost carriers opening up more routes across Europe, air travel is increasingly to and from smaller airports which are not served by rail links.

    10. Sewage pipe on parts of Western rail corridor may have to be moved

    According to the Platform 11 Group (representing the Irish National Rail Users Organisation) part of the Dunshaughlin sewage pipe runs parallel and underneath the old Navan rail line that will be the reestablished Western Rail Corridor. This will create added cost and delay to a line that is scheduled to open in ten years. The sewage pipe runs adjacent or underneath 1.5 kilometres of the track.

    Meath County Council says that the pipe has been constructed mainly on the side of the railway alignment, but when asked for specific distances they did not provide them. They said that around the Dunsany Bridge the pipe is in the middle of the alignment. Depending on what depth the pipe is at, this would have to be moved to allow for the rail line. Meath County Council did not answer a question from Village as to its depth under the track.

    Platform 11 says Meath County Council plans show nine manhole covers in the rail alignment, four directly in the middle. These will have to be moved in accordance with Iarnród Éireann guidelines, which state: "Where sewers are buried at a substantial distance below the trackbed they will not be relocated, however manhole access will need to be relocated away from the trackbed." The track will be electrified as well which would mean lowering the track under the Dunsany Bridge.

    Meath County Council did not answer questions on the amount of manholes in the track's vicinity.

    They did say: "The present construction of the sewer does not preclude the railway from possible reopening in the future." The cost of the 16km pipeline was €2.5 million.



    11. Indirect journeys

    The Metro West is being built to link areas orbitally around the city, but also to link up these areas with the Tallaght Luas. However, the plan to link these areas to the city centre via the Tallaght Luas does not seem to make sense. Liffey Valley is 3.7 miles from the city centre by road, and without heavy traffic the journey time by car would be 15-20 minutes. If a passenger was going to travel by rail under the Transport 21 plan the passenger would have to travel to Tallaght by metro first ( a road distance of 8.5 miles) and then take the Luas to the city centre (approx journey time 48 mins). To get from Blanchardstown and Clondalkin to the city centre a passenger would have to travel to the Tallaght Luas by metro first, and then journey for 48 minutes to the city centre.

    In his announcement on 1 November Martin Cullen in particular highlighted that under Transport 21 a passenger will be able to travel from Loughlinstown (Cherrywood) to Dun Laoghaire by rail. In this scenario the passenger would take the Luas to Bray and then the Dart to Dun Laoghaire. However at the moment there is a bus route than can take the passenger directly from Louglinstown/Cherrywood to Dun Laoghaire in 20 minutes. It seems it would make more sense to invest in the bus network in both these areas.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    cont./...
    12. Underground rail twice the cost of surface, and attracts less passengers

    In 2000, the Dublin LRT (light rail) study looked into the comparative analysis of surface and underground options for a rail link. The report said that in peak hour in 2006 the surface option would be expected to attract 1,000 more users than the underground option. In off peak periods the surface option would attract nearly 50 per cent more. It also found that both options would increase the number of passengers travelling by rail by four per cent and reduce those using cars by one per cent. It also said that the capital cost of an underground option would be roughly twice that of the surface one – £500 million compared with £263 million.

    13. Not as many Intercity trains as you thought

    In Transport 21 they announced additional trains on existing routes. But in some cases this does not amount to much of an increase. For instance on the Dublin-Galway line it promised a train every hour at peak, and a train every two hours off peak. This means three more trains a day, based on the existing timetable. It announced trains every two hours on the Dublin-Tralee line. This means an additional one to two trains, based on the current timetable. (Some of the existing trains on the Tralee line are not direct, but Transport 21 doesn't clarify if it is proposing direct trains every two hours.) On the Dublin-Limerick line it promised trains every hour – this will mean five additional trains. On the Dublin-Waterford line it committed to trains every two hours from Dublin. Between the hours of 7.30am to 19.30 this would mean seven trains. At the moment there are seven trains.



    14. Fails to tackle problem of rail access to Midlands

    The plan fails to tackle the problem of rail access to the proposed midlands gateway, as defined in the National Spatial Strategy. This gateway is made up of Athlone, Tullamore and Mullingar, all located on railway lines, but to get from Athlone to Mullingar by train the passenger must go via Dublin. The plan also fails to address the problem of rail access to Shannon airport which lies less than ten miles off the Ennis to Limerick line. Also there are complaints that the Atlantic highway is only going to be a dual carriageway and in part of it, it will be just a 2+1 system.


    15. Confusion over transport agency

    Martin Cullen seems to envisage the Dublin Transport Authority (DTA) as something quite radical, that would have power over the other transport authorities like the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) and Dublin Bus. But its role has not been clearly defined. In a Dáil question last week the Taoiseach indicated a more limited role for it. "The Department will establish a monitoring group under its chairmanship for the purpose of overseeing the implementation of what is a very elaborate plan to bring the infrastructure of this country up to scale." But the Department of Transport insists the new agency will have to have wide-ranging statutory powers. This could take a long time to create and the existing powers enjoyed by other agencies would have to be withdrawn.



    16. Ten years to build the Western Rail Corridor

    It took less than three years to build the 26-mile Navan line using picks and shovels in the 19th Century. Work began in October 1859 and was completed by August 1862. But Transport 21 says that that it will take ten years to reopen the whole Western rail line. Locals in Meath are questioning why the Navan section cannot be opened sooner.



    17. Upgrade of the M50 will still result in traffic jams

    As part of Transport 21 they will complete the upgrade of the M50 route. This means widening 32 kilometre of the motorway from four to six lanes and upgrading ten interchanges. The National Roads Authority (NRA) say that the upgrade will bring a 19 per cent improvement in traffic flow by 2008, but the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) on the upgrade says that the M50 will remain congested even after the upgrade. This said that the level of traffic will need to be controlled. The EIS predicts that traffic levels on the M50 will soar following its upgrade from around 80,000 vehicles a day at present to between 194,100 and 203,700 a day on different sections of the route – in both cases above the congestion threshold. In order to deter motorists the NRA wants to implement a free flowing toll facility, but there is no decision as of yet.




    18. No school transport

    As anybody commuting by road during school holidays knows, a large portion of rush-hour traffic consists of school runs. With the school transport fleet already straining following the removal of the "3 for 2" concession allowing three students to sit across two seats, and the main obstacle to the fitting of seat belts on school buses being cost, school transport is already in need of serious investment. Yet there is nothing about this in Transport 21. Alongside an enhanced school transport system, Green TD Eamon Ryan suggests that a priority should be to make sure that every school in the country is safe to walk and cycle to.




    19. Rail projects haven't got the go ahead yet

    There will have to be public inquiries into the metro lines and the Luas extensions, as well as the national rail projects before they get the go ahead. This is required under part three of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) 2001 Act. Environmental Impact Assessments will also be mandatory. There are no timescales for these inquiries as this is decided by the individual inspectors who oversee the inquires. This will mean delay for the projects and the possibility that they won't go ahead as planned. The railway order for the Luas extension has been received by the Minister for Transport and according to the Department of Transport "he will appoint an inspector to oversee the public inquiry into this extension shortly."



    20. Problems building underground

    There were reservations in the past in building underground in Dublin. Some of the arguments were that the ground was too wet to build in, and would not be able to support itself. The government now argue that the Port Tunnel has shown that we can build underground in Dublin. But there were many residents who claimed of cracks and disturbance in their houses and the Government is going to have to pay out millions in compensation to them.

    Another problem is that building underground can be very disruptive to the local residents. In other cities, like Madrid, they brought in 24/7 drilling for a few days in each area so the disruption was minimal. In order for 24/7 drilling to be brought in there would have to be statutory changes. In the past the infrastructure bill offered this, but it was withdrawn in December 2004 for a complete overhaul.



    21. Problems with Metro cost and capacity

    Platform 21 conducted a study of the metro plan as proposed by the Dublin Transportation Office (DTO) in their "Platform for Change". There were three metro lines – a Metro from Swords to Bray; a line from Tallaght to city centre; and an orbital line around Tallaght, Clondalkin and Finglas. Transport 21 has offered less metro than this in the current plans.

    The Platform 11 report was critical of the RPA's construction cost of €1.72 billion. They set the real cost at €5 billion. They recommended Iarnród Éireann's rail plan for Dublin (an electrified system), which would give ten times the capacity of the proposed metro. They said that a 40 metre Luas can carry 292 people; where as an eight coach Dart can carry 1,400 passengers.

    The concluded: "Despite they hype surrounding the Dublin Metro project upon a more in depth investigation it is rather disappointing. Capacity and integration all fall well short of what are needed."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭mackerski


    However, the plan to link these areas to the city centre via the Tallaght Luas does not seem to make sense.

    Are they kidding? Surely the orbital Metro is designed to feed Luas Red or Kildare DART or Maynooth DART or Airport Metro, depending where the passenger boarded. Seems a pretty basic thing to overlook.

    Dermot


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭ishmael whale


    ...
    10. Sewage pipe on parts of Western rail corridor may have to be moved
    According to the Platform 11 Group (representing the Irish National Rail Users Organisation) part of the Dunshaughlin sewage pipe runs parallel and underneath the old Navan rail line that will be the reestablished Western Rail Corridor. This will create added cost and delay to a line that is scheduled to open in ten years. The sewage pipe runs adjacent or underneath 1.5 kilometres of the track. ......

    16. Ten years to build the Western Rail Corridor

    It took less than three years to build the 26-mile Navan line using picks and shovels in the 19th Century. Work began in October 1859 and was completed by August 1862. But Transport 21 says that that it will take ten years to reopen the whole Western rail line. Locals in Meath are questioning why the Navan section cannot be opened sooner.
    The article seems to have confused the Western Rail Corridor with the Navan line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    After much legwork they f****d up big time. A clarrification is published in the current edition

    I'm getting very sick of journalists who can't do proper research, they even have a problem when the whole thing is given to them on paper, this is the text they where given http://www.platform11.org/campaigns/navan/dunsany.php hard to understand how that could go wrong?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Maskhadov


    12. Underground rail twice the cost of surface, and attracts less passengers


    THIS IS A BLATENT LIE. Go and ask any spanish person and they will tell you that if you take in all costings for both underground and overground you will see that there is very little between the two. So go underground plus you free up space on the surface.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭CCOVICH


    In point 9, they seem to say that it's not worth building a metro link to Dublin Airport due to insufficient demand. In point 14, they are giving out that there is no consideration given to a rail link to Shannon Airport.

    Am I missing something? They seem to be contradicting themselves?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    They are since there is heaps of demand to Dublin airport I've looked at the numbers and a Metro from St Stephens Green to Swords would be shifting 15,000 per hour, problem is not lack of demand its too much demand but it looks like the cheapo cut down solution once promised it gone


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Maskhadov


    That article is a load of rubbish


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    A few interesting points, but most of that article was rubbish.

    5. Not enough QBCs
    ...In relation to rail they said: "Overall, we believe that there may be justification for pursuing future large-scale rail projects but they must be based on careful consideration of the likely costs and benefits and in particular the extent to which higher densities are being delivered on the proposed routes."

    7. Luas overcrowding
    The RPA (Rail Procurement Agency) has said that an additional eight million passengers a year would be accommodated on the Luas with the new lines and extensions. But there is already overcrowding on the existing lines...


    It kind of undermines the point you're trying to make when you first quote someone going on about how we should be going for mainly buses in a city like this (which is nonsense), and then later start complaining about lack of capacity in Luas etc. So which is it, the report is saying rail is too high-capacity, yet the journalist is saying existing lines are overcrowded?

    9. The metro to the airport
    According to Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's experience at other airports, particularly in the UK, has been that less than 25 per cent of passengers travelling to or from an airport use direct rail links...

    That's rich!! The reason Ryanair's passengers usually use buses instead of rail is because their crappy airports are located in the middle of nowhere.

    10. Sewage pipe on parts of Western rail corridor may have to be moved
    According to the Platform 11 Group part of the Dunshaughlin sewage pipe runs parallel and underneath the old Navan rail line that will be the reestablished Western Rail Corridor. ...The sewage pipe runs adjacent or underneath 1.5 kilometres of the track.

    Apart from the fact (which has already been pointed out) that they've mixed up the WRC with the Navan line, it really doesn't sound like a big deal at all. It's only 1.5 kilometres out of about 40.

    11. Indirect journeys
    The Metro West is being built to link areas orbitally around the city, but also to link up these areas with the Tallaght Luas. However, the plan to link these areas to the city centre via the Tallaght Luas does not seem to make sense. ... To get from Blanchardstown and Clondalkin to the city centre a passenger would have to travel to the Tallaght Luas by metro first, and then journey for 48 minutes to the city centre.

    This is laughable. They seem to have forgotten about the Kildare and Maynooth DART lines! In fact the Tallaght Luas would be by far the slowest way of getting into town.

    ... In this scenario the passenger would take the Luas to Bray and then the Dart to Dun Laoghaire. However at the moment there is a bus route than can take the passenger directly from Louglinstown/Cherrywood to Dun Laoghaire in 20 minutes.
    True in this specific example, but not generally the case anywhere else.

    14. Fails to tackle problem of rail access to Midlands
    ...Also there are complaints that the Atlantic highway is only going to be a dual carriageway and in part of it, it will be just a 2+1 system.

    This fact has been obvious to anyone who has read the NRA's website, which has listed the road schemes comprising the ARC since 1999, which were announced along with the rest of the NDP. (BTW, very little progress has been made on any of them, and apparently they now won't be tackled until after 2010).

    16. Ten years to build the Western Rail Corridor
    It took less than three years to build the 26-mile Navan line using picks and shovels in the 19th Century. Work began in October 1859 and was completed by August 1862.

    Not at all comparable, since we have modern-day concepts now such as EIS's, community consultation, health and safety laws, etc. OK so it takes longer now, but I prefer it this way. Also, if the white-elephant WRC was open all in one go, something else would have to be sacrificed to make way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Lennoxschips


    There are some pretty good points there plus some strangely unfounded ones. Point 9 sticks out like sore thumb. People at small regional airports don't use rail links. I agree, but Dublin Airport isn't a small regional airport so it's a moot point.

    Anyway, if you can get 25% of the passengers going to the airport to use a rail link then I think that's pretty good going to be honest.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭dr zoidberg


    Yeah 25 % is still about 5 million people - 10 million journeys per year doesn't seem too bad going. You could certainly justify a link on that alone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    The projected passenger usage for a rail link to Dublin Airport would be 4.4 to 5.6 million passengers per year thats based on the 20-25% assumption

    This assumption holds based on international experience and assumes a frequent (at least every 15 minutes) high quailty service which links well with other modes. That why Shannon is going to be tricky to justify unless the line serves other areas en route the frequency won't be there regardless. Knock is well not happening. Farranfore is the closest airport to a rail line in the country and well its doing nothing in terms of rail traffic

    Iarnrod Eireann had a proposal in to run DART to Dublin Airport via Grange Rd and the figures suggested a annual operating profit of €15 million, they where refused permission despite the fact it would take only 3 years or so to put in place and the land in the majority is reserved already


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    A Shannon rail link would have to serve the airport only as another stop rather than an end in itself - the free zone and the town would hopefully provide the rest of the traffic en route Limerick/Ennis. In the same way extending the metro to Swords will attract a lot of people "passing through" the airport en route to the city and changes the whole numbers game wrt the metro.
    (edited for spelling)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭dr zoidberg


    Yes but would the towns it serves have sufficient population and demand to justify the service? Is there a lot of people commuting to Limerick from decent-sized towns nearby? Ennis alone would hardly justify the expense. And going on the 25 % average for aiprport users using rail, that would mean approximately 600,000 journeys, a decent amount but it is arguable if the expense of building a rail line is worth it for that number. If there was a decent demand for the rail line to link the towns as well as the airport, then yes, it would be more viable. However I don't think the demand is sufficient based on population.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    The 25% rule only appiles where a high frequency service is provided and given the single track nature of the WRC it is doubtfull anything better than a train an hour could be provided which is not attactive, combined with the provision of suburban services in Limerick and Galway the numbers may become more favourable as 3 services could link together

    All that said no rail line in the country makes a profit (the DART did for sometime in the mid 1990's) and the real killer is the capital costs to build a deviation from the current line, a operating loss can be run if the business case can show significant external benefits the question is how much of a loss is acceptable


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Is double tracking Limerick-Cratloe possible - was this line previously double and later singled or always single track? I seem to recall the bridge at Longpavement being a bit dubious? And then there are the frequent bridge strikes between Limerick and Ennis.

    The single track to Ennis/Sixmilebridge could remain but a new 75mph section through Bunratty/Shannon Town/Airport/Freezone to Sixmilebridge could do the airport work and Ennis-Dublin intercity could continue on the existing line.

    As for whether the towns along the route can do the business - that's really up to Clare Co Co to make happen. Sixmilebridge is growing quite a lot I'm told by someone who bought a house there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    dowlingm wrote:
    Is double tracking Limerick-Cratloe possible - was this line previously double and later singled or always single track? I seem to recall the bridge at Longpavement being a bit dubious?
    Anything is possible, its down to what makes sense. There is no particular problem with having single track sections, afterall, Drogheda bridge is single track, as is most of Limerick-Limerick Junction.

    Double tracking the Shannon Spur and one or two other sections seems eminently practical.

    Sixmilebridge is a hole*. That it is now a large hole, may be irrelevant.


    * No offence intended


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Victor

    that's true, but if the track used to be double then you probably don't have to widen bridges, embankments etc, cutting down on the cost substantially.

    While Drogheda is as you say single track, that's for a short section north of the Drogheda station and thus has less services to contend with than if it were south of Drogheda. As for Limerick-LJ, I would contend that while it is currently single track, expanding service on the Ballybrophy line and putting a commuter station at Pallasgreen would be good reasons to double it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭gjim


    was this line previously double and later singled or always single track?
    Always single as far as I know unless they filled in embankments and narrowed bridges.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Sarsfield


    dowlingm wrote:
    As for Limerick-LJ, I would contend that while it is currently single track, expanding service on the Ballybrophy line and putting a commuter station at Pallasgreen would be good reasons to double it.

    There's already double track from Limerick out as far as Killonan Jct. so Nenagh branch traffic wouldn't help justify further doubling of track.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Sarsfield

    it's been a long time since I've been on the LJ line - I thought it was single to Killonan, thanks for clearing that up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Bill McH


    The list of "21 problems with transport 21" does not include two interesting projects from "Platform for Change" which might have been expected to be on the list of projects to be tackled with the 34 billion.

    There's already been a lot said about 4 metro lines becoming 1 metro line, and about other projects which have been dropped.

    But the two projects I'm thinking of are:
    "construct additional track from Connolly to north of Howth Junction" and "restrict level crossings south of Grand Canal Dock and resignal".

    I remember the first one had been dropped some time ago, but I thought it might have made it back in. As it is a shorter distance than the distance involved in the Kildare Route Project, you'd expect that the first one could have been done more cheaply than the KRP. (Not to say that it would be easy, given the number of stations that would need to be rebuilt, available space, etc). I think it's a pity that that didn't make it in, as the benefits would have been very big.

    As for the second one (the level crossings) I've never understood how it was going to be done, but there must have been some plan out there for it to have made it into platform for change. It also seems a pity that this wasn't included in the grand plan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    On the level crossings front the worst without question with relation to delays to rail passengers has to be Lansdowne Rd even when a match is not on it is the one which you get held at, when a match is on its chaos. Good news is that is to be replaced by an underpass. Merrion Gates is troublesome but the presence of a garda has done wonders to protect the gates from suicdal motorists, yes it does add 30 seconds to the rail journey but the cost to remove would be astronomical

    Fairview Grange Rd as 4 track would cost something in the 400-500 million bracket owing to high land costs, station reconstruction. The DTO proposed 3 tracks which is not much good you need 4

    Its clear IE went in to the minster and gave a lame presentation and assumed there was only x in the pot. The RPA went in ignored costs where way to ambitious and got everything and the kitchen sink

    The question is what to you prioritise a system falling to pieces under ever increasing load or the green field site, new == votes enough said


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Bill McH


    Wow. I had no idea 4-tracking would have been so expensive. If it's 400-500million now, hard to see it happening even in the next 10 year plan.

    It'd be interesting to know what the DTO meant by "restriction" of the level crossings along that line. I don't know if they meant closure of them, though it's nice to hear that the Lansdowne one will soon be history.

    I don't think there's any mention of the level crossings on the Maynooth line in Platform for Change, but it would be nice to see them go while there's still some unbuilt space close to them. At least then it would only be Sligo/Longford trains on the Connolly-Maynooth section which would restrict the number of DARTs along this section of line.


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