Punctuality

Elmo

I am not a fan of Punctuality. I am punctual. i.e. if I am early i will be one to two minuntes early and if I am late I will be one to two minuntes late. But then I don't call that early or late I call it punctual.

However I have work in some places (in particular call centres) and they want you to be in 10 to 15 mins before you shift starts.

The main reason for this 10 to 15 mins is that the system takes 10 to 15 mins to load so if you are in on time (punctual) you will be late by 10 to 15 mins.

My attitude is that it is part of the job is to set up, if you want me to be in 10 or 15 mins before my shift then you better pay me for those 10 or 15 mins.

So any managers out there going to tell me why I am wrong about Punctuality? Or for that matter any lick arses out there?

whiskeyman

Part of most jobs nowadays tbh.
Any "9 to 5" job I had usually meant 8 to 6, and you'd get looks if you left near the 5 mark (unless you had something important to go to).

Elmo

Any "9 to 5" job I had usually meant 8 to 6, and you'd get looks if you left near the 5 mark

I am talking about arriving in not leaving.

They over worked you and I assume that you were willing to take that, I wouldn't unless my job was highly important and I felt that I was getting something out of it.

In that instance (i.e. if my job was important) I would expect that no questions would be asked if I left early or arrived late on occassion.

Kolodny

My official start time is 8:45am but I am paid for a 9 to 5 day. I just add up the minutes and take time in lieu every once in a while. They don't pay overtime and as far as I'm concerned that unpaid 75 minutes I'm in each week is my time, not theirs.

Mighty_Mouse

Any "9 to 5" job I had usually meant 8 to 6, and you'd get looks if you left near the 5 mark (unless you had something important to go to).

you must be nuts. thats called been taken for a ride man! If I have work to do I dont have a problem hanging around but if not ............c ya!

whiskeyman

Elmo wrote:

I am talking about arriving in not leaving.

So was I... coming in for 8.
Coming in after 8.30 would have been a no-no.

Elmo wrote:

They over worked you and I assume that you were willing to take that, I wouldn't unless my job was highly important and I felt that I was getting something out of it.

Wasnt a case of overworked, more a case of an ethic that was there.... and one that seems widespread.
It was just part of the job.
Most cases, I'd be in early, but I'd have a cuppa and do light preparations for the day.
It's almost an unwritten agreement in most places. If you know it exists and are unhappy, best you find somewhere where such an ethic doesnt exist.

Elmo

It's almost an unwritten agreement in most places. If you know it exists and are unhappy, best you find somewhere where such an ethic doesnt exist.

What could they say to you if you arrived in at 9 and left at 5? That's your day. Unwritten agreements aren't very useful. What do you do that is so ethical?

whiskeyman

Elmo wrote:

What could they say to you if you arrived in at 9 and left at 5? That's your day. Unwritten agreements aren't very useful. What do you do that is so ethical?

It's a work ethic in the company. I'm sure many people here are employed by similar.
It always helps if the jobs are well paid and the company look after their employees well.

Have you ever questioned your manager in those jobs where they require you in earlier?

Guy:Incognito

whiskeyman wrote:

It's a work ethic in the company. I'm sure many people here are employed by similar.
It always helps if the jobs are well paid and the company look after their employees well.

Have you ever questioned your manager in those jobs where they require you in earlier?

If thats the case why don't they pay 8-6 so? they are getting 10 hours a week extra out of everyone for free. Whoever pulled that one off is a genius and I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that they are getting paid for every hour they work.

Any job that gets 10 hours extra out of employees for free is going to look after them. Personally I'd rather the money in my pocket.

You are working an extra 25% for free.

Canis Lupus

When I worked in Ireland I was expected to be at my desk 15 mins before hand to prepare but screw them I never was.

My new job is 9 to 5. I can't leave before 5 but really I can potter into work anytime after 9, for obvious reasons it's frowned up coming in late every morning but 10 mins here and there are over looked. Likewise I can go out for a cigarette whenever I feel etc etc. The ethic in this job is get your work done and how and when you do it is up to you. I like it, way more relaxed.

Elmo

It's a work ethic in the company. I'm sure many people here are employed by similar.
It always helps if the jobs are well paid and the company look after their employees well.

I understand where whiskeyman is coming from. Whiskeyman has a well paid job and is basically at managerial level (even though he might not be a manager). Whiskeyman is on a Salary rather then a wage, I assume. And As I said I am sure Whiskeyman could leave early or arrive late if he wants, obivously within reason.

I am not talking about these types of jobs. I am talking about Hourly/Shift and waged jobs. Part Time Full Time.

10 mins here and there are over looked. Likewise I can go out for a cigarette whenever I feel etc etc

A smoker who is late, I am going to start going on smoking breaks. (I don't smoke)

seamus

I've no problem leaving or starting work 10-15 mins behind/ahead of time the odd time, when necessary. Accordingly, sometimes I do end up ten or fifteen minutes late and nothing is said.

I've worked in places where you get scowled at for being 5 minutes late, regardless of your previous record, and it's a horrible way to have to work. I accept that certain jobs, e.g. shift work, rely on you being more-or-less on time, otherwise the poor git you're relieving is left there. Overall though, unless someone needs to be there doing your job at a certain time, and you're the first/only person in that day, I don't see why a few minutes here and there make a difference.

I did find though, that the younger the staff in general, the more rigid they are about rules and punctuality. Places like call centres and supermarkets tend to be sticklers on lateness, probably because 16-20 year olds (again, in general) will take the piss if they're given too much leeway.

Elmo, unless your contract requires you to be at your desk 15 minutes before the shift starts (yes they can specify this) I'd tell them where to go, or pay your for your time.

Elmo

Places like call centres and supermarkets tend to be sticklers on lateness, probably because 16-20 year olds (again, in general) will take the piss if they're given too much leeway.

What I found was that when it is sooooo strict you just don't want to work there. For more mature staff (including mature 16 - 20 year olds) it is condesending. Thus the high staff turn over in Call Centres.

woody

Being A few mins late or leaving early with me would'nt be an issue.

I come from the army where you get charged for it but generally being flexiable is a good way to have a good work force.

I myself am in work at 0700 or 730 most morning eventhough I start at 0900 but I dont have the stress of heavy traffic and can get breakfast,Coffee and anything prepared for the day.

As for smokers again as long as they do there job they can take as many breaks as need be

smurfbaby

I worked in a call centre for a short time after leaving college and hated it! Start/ finish times and all breaks had to be strictly adhered to, as they could tell what time you had logged on or off your computer and phone. If you were logged out of your phone for a certain amount of minutes per day you lost your bonus. Plus got a dressing down from team leaders.
Now Im in a job that I enjoy, and arrive about half an hour early on average, and have a cup of tea, read emails, and generally prepare for the day. I don't mind working through lunch or staying late if needs be. Just goes to show that if you are treated reasonably and allowed a certain degree of flexibility it gives a better incentive to out in the hours when the occasion arises

magpie

So any managers out there going to tell me why I am wrong about Punctuality?

I imagine the managerial line on this is something along the lines of "if you don't like it go and get another job". Think of it as good encouragement to work for yourself.

Kernel32

I work on salary and have done so for a long time now so its not as big a deal for me. I also manage people on salary and I have no strict hours but generally I like people to be in between 8am and 10am. I do believe though if you are required to be there to do setup or whatever then you should be paid for it.
I do consulting on the side at an hourly rate and I bill to the half hour. If someone wants me to be in a meeting and I sit there for an hour while they wait on required participants then I will bill for every minute. If someone calls me on the phone and it takes 10 minutes then they get charged for a half hour. Its my time I am billing for.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Ah yes the old "make sure you're on time so you can sit twiddling your thumbs for the first half hour of your day...", nope, can't be late for the thumb-twiddling.
Likewise, sit in your chair staring at the clock until it hits 6... you've worked hard, finished everything you had to do ahead of time, but you're on company time and we want you sitting here whether you've got work to do or not.
Really, in some jobs there's just no way to work on your own initiative, if there's nothing going on, then there's nothing to do... yet still this anal approach to timekeeping exists.

Drexl Spivey

Elmo,

I agree with you and I know exactly what you mean.

I work in a call centre environment.

You arrive 1mn late, they'll give you grief even if you arrived 10mns early the day before

The problem lies in the very nature of the job and the way it is perceived by the industry. You're not really that important because you are not considered an individual, rather you are considered to be a resource (a lemon that you squeeze until there's no juice left). Hence, if you're not happy you move on (that's not me speaking, that's 'them' speaking).


It is very ambiguous. This type of job requieres more or less qualified people or, if not qualified, multi-talented people however, it is not recognized as a qualified job, therefore it is hard to find another job (if that answers people who were also thinking of replying 'if you don't like it look for something else')

You are allowed 15 mns break because it is the strict minimum (meaning that if they could allow shorter breaks they actually would goahead with shorter breaks ...), they don't care if you have family to visit for christmas, you'll work for christmas, etc..

The managers who ask you to be 10 mns ahead of schedule in order to be ready allow themselves to relax (cup of coffee, irish breakfast in the canteen for 30 mns .....).


I think there should be more flexibility and more recognition in this type of job.

I am very pessimistic regarding the above and I have a very cynical vue of this type of job.

They win because your contract says you have to start working at a particular time, and you need to be ready by then. If you need to arrive 10mns sooner every day to switch the PC on and launch the software (50mn unpaid every week) it's not their problem.

Good luck in finding another type of job.

sideFX

I'd hate to work in a place like that. If you want me in early you pay me, simple as.

Prob these days is that nobody is indispensible and there are too many people waiting to take your place.

Stick it out over Christmas and make a move in the new year.
Are you a member of a union? Can they sort it out?

RedPlanet

I am leaving a place just like that, Hooray.

Elmo

Are you a member of a union? Can they sort it out?

Company doesn't allow unions. Typical of Call Centre's I worked in in the past.

Jeff is right to say with Call Centre Jobs your in a visious circle, i.e. it's not really a job that gives you any experience thus you end up in a call centre in your next job which was as bad as the previous job.

Thankfully I am only working parttime for the year. And I have plenty of other experience so I don't need to worry too much about this job. And I have other qualifcations.

This job will see me through until Feburary or March (if they are lucky).

Sangre

They have to allow unions. They just don't have to recognise them.