€1,300 to invest

cormie

Hi there,
Well after selling my car I now have the money to invest in setting myself up. I only have this 8x8 ft standard shed, Delux, with one window. It's raised up about 150mm from the ground, has timber floor with no support underneath it. My main interest will be carving and turning so I'm looking to get a bench with a vice that I can also put the lathe on perhaps? I've already set aside about €160 for chisels so that leaves me with about €1,100. I'm thinking a lathe with a chuck, a bench, vice, router (maybe) and a few turning tools.

There is this copying lathe in B&Q, I think it's about €350 in Ireland. I don't think I really need the copying attacment as my work will be once offs but it could come in handy. Does that look ok for the money or would I be better off getting something else? That doesn't include a chuck.

What would my best bet be with €1,100 to spend on the above? Also, what should I do about dust? I don't think there will be that much except from sanding on the lathe and using the router, would a simple mask do? Would love to get this up and running soon:)

Actually, where better place to ask, there is quite a lot of junk in the shed which could go up in the attic. I'd like to put a few floor boards down up there, I've done it before using a skill saw and screwgun, cutting them half way between the (what are they called? joists?? I forget:o ) and lining them up, it's pretty easy, where is the best place to get the floor boards and how much do they cost? I was using the tongue and groove. I wont be paying for this.

Also, were going to have to fit the shed with electricity, which I wont be paying for either so this doesn't affect my budget for tools, I'd also like to get the shed insulated (and soundproofed) if possible, what's the cheapest way to do this? The way the shed is built, there are gaps where I could fit insulation into. How much would this cost and would I need to cover the whole shed for it to have any effect or could I leave the door and the shelving at the back without it?

I got a PM from somebody on this board inviting me to their workshop in Bray, where I live, I deleted it by mistake before I got a chance to write back, I forget who sent it but I would be interested in checking out your workshop if you could PM me again please:)

I'm pretty sure this is the direction I want to go, I've never had the same enthusiasm towards the carpentry as I have towards this. It's a good sign that I look forward to the next day of college to work on my pieces:D

Any feedback greatly appreciated:)

P.S. Attached is a piece I was doing for a few classes, can't really see the 3d aspect of it in that shot but you get the idea, gouges and a carving knife were all that were used, ok, I used a sander to smooth the edges and a band saw to cut it out of the wood but for the carving bit I mean:)

JoeB-

Hi Cormie

Great to hear that you're starting up, hope it goes well.

I don't know whether you should get the lathe from B&Q, it seems quite cheap and you probably get what you pay for.

Check out
http://www.axminster.co.uk
also
Lathes and stuff

For dust extraction I'd get a Record Power Dustbin Extractor from McQuillan Tools, it's about €170 I think and it's really effective with a large container volume. Otherwise just use a household vacuum cleaner with home made attachments, this will be ok for fine enough shavings but will be inconvenient.
Dustbin Extractor

For floorboards you could just use 2 sheets of 18mm MDF available for about €20 per sheet including VAT.

By the way, the Poker.ie carving is lovely, well done.

Cheers
joe
http://www.eccabinets.com

Alun

Hi Cormie,

Firstly, that was me who PM'ed you Get in touch and we'll see what we can do.

I'd echo the Axminster thing ... I've a spare catalogue you can have to browse through, but beware ... it's dangerous to the wallet!

Regarding the loft flooring, you can get tongue and grooved chipboard panels specially for this purpose from most D-I-Y stores like Woodies etc.

Alun

stormin

That 8x8 shed is gonna be full of dust and shavings from a lathe. Great fun.

Lathe needs to be well bolted down. Might want to get the lathe b4 the bench if the lathe isn't floor standing.

I have used the B&Q lathes and they are basic but fine. They have variable speed, good capacities and are sturdy.

I moved from Meath to Swords 6 months ago so don't have the space to do woodwork at the moment. I miss it though. It's very rewarding.

cormie

Hi,
thanks for the replies. I went to visit Aluns workshop and it's quite cool indeed. Not too much bigger than the space I have available either so I'm sure I'll be fine with just a bench for carving and the lathe. I was talking to my carving teacher and he said to just get a normal vice as they can basically do everything a carving vice can do, and more. So I think I'll get/make a bench and stick a vice on it and I should have my carving chisels soon enough and then I'll know how much money I will have to spend on the lathe. One of my classmates is going to be buying the B+Q copying lathe on Sunday so I'll be able to get a better idea of it's abilities next week. Hopefully it will have the hollow tailstock anyway. Stormin, have you any idea whether it does or not, this will be used for putting holes in lamps to fit the wire through. I think I'll head along to that demonstration in Goughs on the 30th too and see if I can pick up a good deal on a lathe and some turning tools there.

On the issue of dust extraction, would something like this be a good and of course cheaper alternative to the likes of a dustbin extractor? I don't really mind the window sills and shelves being covered in dust, my main concern would be for my lungs, when I have more money I could invest in the extractor probably but would that mask do for now lung wise?

What would be the best thing to use to insulate the shed with would any of you know?

Any feedback appreciated:)

Alun

cormie wrote:

thanks for the replies. I went to visit Aluns workshop and it's quite cool indeed

Thanks It was pretty 'cool' in the conventional sense too, if I remember! Despite that it is insulated (honestly!) with Rockwool in between the vertical supports, and then panelled over with plywood.

I'll be going to the demo at Richard Gough's too, and you can often get good deals on Sorby tools and other stuff, but as far as lathes go he only stocks Teknatool (which is what I've got), Woodfast (fairly expensive) and Record (were OK, but have gone down in quality a lot recently). You're not far from both McQuillans and Lenehans though when you're there, so it'd be easy enough to pop round there and take a look when it gets a bit quiet.

The dust extraction thing is a tricky one. I have a dust extractor as you saw, but even with that going full tilt while I'm sanding at the lathe, there's still a fair bit of dust floating in the air afterwards, and I always wear a dust mask as well. These dust extractors work best on equipment where the dust is produced in a smaller, defined area such as a bandsaw or a belt sander for example, which have built-in dust extraction points you can attach the hose to directly. When sanding on a lathe it goes everywhere, despite all attempts to position hoses near the work, especially if you go in for power sanding large bowls for example. You can get airborne dust extractors for workshops that will remove a lot of this kind of dust, but they ain't cheap. As I mentioned, you can also get hooded respirators which a lot of people swear by, but the ones I've tried have always felt very claustrophobic and heavy. Personally I go for the dust extractor plus mask route as being the best compromise, but if I were to start turning a lot of exotics, say, I'd seriously consider reconsidering my dislike of respirators.

Hope that hasn't confused you more than you were already

cormie

Thanks again for the feedback. Yup, it kinda confused me, would the mask I linked to not be ok though? I wouldn't mind wearing it while sanding as that's really the only time I'll need to be wearing it.

I went to have a look at the B&Q lathe today and I asked one guy who said another guy is who I should talk to, he does a bit of turning, so we found him, went over and I don't think the headstock turns for bowl turning and the tailstock isn't hollow for doing holes for lamp wire. He started to go quiet and say I shouldn't say this but it's crap, he took out his pad and wrote the name of a Martin Gleeson in Kilcock and said he is the main importer of Delta and some other brand lathe and does good starter packages with a bench grinder, lathe and tools for about €500. Has anyone heard or had any experience with this guy? How about Delta lathes? He said the tailstock is hollow and the head turns for bowls.

I think he's a maths teacher full time so I'm not sure if he also has a shop or if he just does it as a hobby and to help enthusiasts get a good price.

Just remembered your man said he is in the goldenpages, goldenpages.ie gave this:

Gleeson's Woodturning Supplies
Address: The Mount Portglorian Kilcock Kildare

Phone: (01) 6284940


If anyone has any feedback on this guy or his prices I'd appreciate any info:)

Alun

I've heard of him ... he advertises in the Irish Woodturners Guild journal, and the only copy I have (not a member myself!) has a feature on him in it. He is a maths and physics teacher in 'real life' and an avid woodturner, and does this part time, but the pictures of his shop look impressive enough. I keep meaning to pop out there myself one day if I can

The contact details you have are right, plus there's an email address mgleesonkildare@msn.com and a mobile number 087-2406520.

The low-end Delta lathes look to me to be based on the same generic Taiwanese/Chinese design that Axminster / Perform / B&Q / Draper / NuTool etc. etc. sell, so I'm a bit surprised that the B&Q lathe didn't have the swivelling headstock. There is another B&Q lathe that they sell that is even more basic than the one you linked to. Maybe that was the one he was referring to? Anyway, as I said, even though these lathes are all based on the same design, they vary a lot in terms of build quality. Delta seem to have a reasonable reputation in the US wher they're based. Take a look at their website at http://www.deltamachinery.com.

JoeB-

Hi
Check out...

http://www.blundell-woodworking.co.uk/special%20offers.htm

This guy sell the Taiwanese stuff but as was pointed out the quality of every single component can be specified by the buyers and so it's hard to judge quality sometimes or all the time... this guys prices seem pretty good.
I was originally interested in his extraction systems and power feed units... I ended up getting the dustbin extractor from McQuillans and it's brilliant, very versatile. I got the power feed in the end from O'Hares who are the agent for Scheppach in Ireland, details in phone book.
The reason I didn't get anything from blundell-woodworking (above) was because of the shipping costs, I rang the guy a few times, he was very good, very open about his products and their build quality etc. but shipping was quite expensive at maybe £50 for a very heavy 65Kg shipment, sometimes shipping can't be avoided if you want to get a good price... it's just Axminster ship stuff for £8.50 and I get used to that. Also the reason I didn't get anything was because I got a good deal here in Ireland.

More info about one of the brands he sells..
http://www.seco-usa.com

But you're prepared to do the legwork and buy from an Irish manufacturer so I'd say just press them for a deal and one of them may go for it... in particular they sell cheaply at shows, it can even be possible to have a guy bring a particular tool to a show just to sell it to you a bit cheaper because he will be able to allow higher discounts at the show. In the end you'll be so well educated about the various options that you'll pick the right one... By the way I'm not a penny pincher and I'm not always looking for bargains but I find that if you know the prices and particularly the lowest prices in the Irish and UK market for similar machines then people are more prepared to make a deal on a few tools or whatever.

There are also some places where you can buy second hand old lathes that would be very heavy duty. Similar to Scott & Seargeant in the UK.

Cheers
Joe
http://www.eccabinets.com

cormie

Thanks for that Joe and Alun. I would consider myself to be a bit of a bargain hunter. I hate knowing I paid more for something than I could have got it for

I rang up Martin Gleeson, he seems to know his stuff for sure. He has about 20 different lathes in stock, which is quite a lot indeed and seems to have all the top quality in stock too. I asked him what he could do for me and this is what he came up with.

Lathe
Sip/Draper: €385, 3/4 HP, 40 inches between centres, 16" (+8" with head turned for bowls), cast Iron legs, speed lever changer. I think it's the third one down here as he said there is only one model per HP speed. Now the price there is only €32 cheaper than what he will sell it for, and I reckon I could get a bit knocked off too.

then there is a cheaper one, Sip/NuTool €280, 1/2 HP, steel legs and has turning head and speed lever too.

Chuck
He said the best would be the Versa Chuck, it's €220 and has 3 carrier jaws (I think that's what he said). It's supposed to be very "versa"tile in that if I was to change lathe it would adapt no problem. He said it's a very good one. I'm prepared to spend €220 on a chuck if it will last me hopefully years, compared to say the average price of €160 which may only last me 2/3 years.

Chisels
He said he stocks all the highest quality chisels, ashley/crown etc and that a set of about 7 would be about €190.

Grinder and Stone + Guide
I can get a grinder for €30 and a pink ceramic stone for €25. He also sells a guide for grinding the chisels on for €25. I have seen others for €100+:eek: I wonder what the difference is?



Comparing this to the McQuillans/Goughs offer of the Record DML36SH for €350 with a set of 5 record chisels. The lathe is only 1/3 HP, I've heard record chisels aren't the best, again, chisels will hopefully last me a good few years so I may as well buy good ones now. Also, the legs with the record aren't the best at all and I don't like the idea of being limited with the 1/3 HP motor, even though I'm just starting off. I have the money to go for Gleesons offer and I reckon I could get him down a bit.

The total coming from Gleeson will be about €850. I may be able to get one or two more guys to buy a lathe with me from him so I reckon I could get that down to €750, so say that leaves me €300 to get a vice, a router and then some bits and bobs for a bench and also a mask:) With McQuillans offer I'd get the same tools for €600-650. And I think the Gleeson lathe is a lot better and he probably knows his stuff much more than either Goughs or McQuillans when it comes to woodturning. I'll talk to my classmates, see what they are willing to spend and go up and try get as much as I can for say €800:)

Any thoughts on Goughs/McQuillans -VS- Gleesons?

Alun

Cormie,

the Versachuck can be seen here.

The main advantage is (supposedly) that you get three sets of jaw slides, i.e. the things that the actual jaws attach to. These allow you to attach jaws from more than one manufacturer (Axminster, Teknatool and OneWay). In addition, you can attach it to different lathes with different thread sizes, but you can do that with most chucks, including the 2 SuperNovas which I have.

Whether the interchangeable jaw slide facility is useful or not, I have my doubts. Each manufacturer has a pretty extensive range of jaws already, and I wouldn't say that one has any particular advantage over the other regarding the range available.

That having ben said, it looks solid enough though. Almost a clone of the Axminster precision chuck. As far as price goes, it works out about the same as the SuperNova2 (was costing €200 + approx. €29 for the adapter insert at Gough's last week).

cormie

Thanks again for the help Alun,
I saw the SuperNova2 for 200, but what was the adapter part for €29? What does that do? Do you reckon I would be better going for the supernova 2 or the versa chuck given my circumstances? What is your opinion on the Sip lathe? I think I'm spending too much time on this I think I should just go and get the damn thing. So given that, should I go for Gleeson or Goughs/McQuillans do you reckon?

Alun

The adapter is more properly called a "chuck insert". The SuperNova2 is threaded to take various inserts for different lathes. The thread on the chuck itself won't fit anything. The insert is basically just a metal tube with a thread on the outside to fit the chuck body, and a thread on the inside to match the thread on your lathes headstock. There are a few dedicated versions of the chuck as well for lathes that have larger threads that would mean the adapter would be too thin, but they're in the minority. See here for more information.

As for which chuck is best? I've never seen the VersaChuck so, I can't comment, but the SuperNova2 is a very nice one (and in many subtle ways a lot better then the old SuperNova). As an added bonus, I've got a 3/4x16tpi adapter (which the lathes you mention apparently have, but check first!) that I could let you have for free, if you like, thus saving a bit. The only other comment I'd make is that the standard jaws on the Versachuck are a bit on the big side for the kinds of stuff you'll be making as a beginner at 75mm. The SuperNova2 comes with a set of 50mm jaws as standard which is more like it in my opinion. You can always upgrade to 75mm, 100mm or 130mm jaws later.

As for the lathe, it's difficult to make recommendations without having seen any of the lathes you mentioned (except the Record). I'd say the best thing is to make an appointment with Martin Gleeson and go and see the lathes he has, and have a play with them. In any case, if you get well and truly bitten by the bug, as you very likely will be, you'll be wanting to trade up to something beefier in a few years time anyway.

As I said when I met you, there comes a point in these kinds of things where you just have to bite the bullet and go for it. You can only get so far by reading brochures and asking other peoples' advice, however well meaning

Good luck!

kadman

Hi Cormie,

Now that you have focused yourself on your requirements, dont forget the most crucial aspects of woodturning. Proper techniques.

If you have the opportunity of some form of training from an experienced turner , all the better.If not , at the very least source some good woodturning books, or articles, and learn your techniques from this.

One to one tuition at the start will ensure that you are on the right road, but it is possible to learn at ones own pace from books, but will take a good deal longer.

And remember, there are many experienced turners here, only too willing to help you.

OBTW excellent effort on the Poker carving, keep it up.

kadman:)

Good luck

cormie

Thanks again for the help Alun. That's very kind of you to offer the insert thingy mabob. I'm not even too sure what exactly it is so I don't know if I even need it or not. I was talking to my instructor and he was saying that the tools they throw in with the record one in goughs/mcquillans are probably not worth much at all and I would be better off just to get it without the tools thrown in, which I doubt they would do as it was on sale for €399 previously and now they have dropped it to €350 and thrown in the set of 5 tools. So if I'm going to be getting them, I may as well get good ones and not bother, so basically, the record lathe would be costing me the €350 anyway, and the one from Gleeson would be costing me only €35 more for a much better lathe which has a motor that is over twice as powerful, 3/4 compared to 1/3 HP. I'm waiting to see how many other guys in my class would want to buy the same one at the same time and see if we can get some money off it. I think I'm just going to go for the one up in Gleesons anyway:) He said he has the supernova one too, I'm not sure if he has the super nova 2 or just the other one but I'll find out. As for the fact the other one has a 75mm jaw, well I can probably start off using a smaller one in college and then I'll be fine using the 75mm one on my own, hopefully.

Kadman, thanks for your comment, I've got a lend of a video with a book from Alun and I also got a VCD off the guys doing the demo in goughs the other day, both look very good at a glance, I haven't had time to watch them properly yet. Another big advantage I have is the course I'm doing, I'll be able to get great guidance from that! So hopefully I'll be getting the lathe within the next week or so!

kadman

Hi Cormie,

You seem to be well focused, and organised. So we will look forward to seeing some of you projects here.

So all you need now is practice, practice, practice..................

kadman

doozerie

cormie, I can't offer any advice regarding wood turning tools but I have bought machinery from Martin Gleeson in the past and found him good to deal with. His prices are comparable to those of Axminster (www.axminster.co.uk), when you convert the sterling prices back to euro, but for heavier items (like bandsaws and lathes) Axminster's delivery charges get very high very quickly and at that stage Martin Gleeson's prices work out cheaper. He says himself that he is the main supplier for Axminster in this country, so it is no surprise that his prices are so similar to theirs. One thing though - remember to get a receipt from him when buying the tools, as he seems very forgetful when it comes to posting those out afterwards (not wanting to cast any doubt on his business practices here, as he was good to deal with when I went back to him on an issue with a piece of machinery even though I hadn't received a receipt, but it is good piece of mind to have the receipt).

As regards dust, the first thing is to split the problem into two distinct issues - collecting dust at the dust collection point on the machine, and capturing dust which is in the air (which is basically dust that the collector couldn't trap).

The likes of the Record dust collector from McQuillans is useful for attaching directly to machinery dust extraction outlets, but no dust collector will ever be able to successfully catch all of the finer dust (and many dust collectors will just spit out any finer dust anyway as the filters are not capable to trapping the very fine stuff - the fact that the finest dust is the stuff that poses more danger to your lungs just compounds matters). Also, the likes of sanders oftern just spit the dust everywhere anyway, even with a dust collector attached.

To deal with dust in the air, an air filter, such as this one by Jet might be appropriate. Martin Gleeson sells that particular one for about 320euro or so, so they are not cheap. There are other brands available for smaller areas and cheaper prices. Whether you go for one of these or not depends on your needs e.g. do you mind clearing dust out of your workshop manually?, is the dust likely to spread to other areas where you don't want it?, is the dust likely to make finishing a nightmare? Whether you use one or not though, even an air filter won't completely protect your lungs as you are going to be exposed to some of the dust before it reaches the filter - so use a mask. With a good air filter, you might be able to opt for a lighter-duty mask, but without any air filter you'll probably want a very good mask (some of the better disposable ones might do).

If you are looking for opinions or experiences with specific machinery, you might be able to find some useful info via the search facility here.

cormie

Hi,
thanks for that doozerie. I don't think I really have that kind of money to be spending on an air filter. I think I'm just going to have to go with a good mask for now. Anyway, I can work with the shed door open if it gets really bad:D It's only going to be in my shed too so it wont be too much of a problem if it gets a bit messy.

That's good to know about Gleeson too, I'll be sure to get a receipt off him anyway! Just waiting on a guy in my class to decide whether he wants to get one at the same time as me or not so we can hopefully get a few bob knocked off the price:)

Thanks again everyone!

Better go get some practice in anyway;)

doozerie

cormie, I can't offer any advice regarding wood turning tools but I have bought machinery from Martin Gleeson in the past and found him good to deal with. His prices are comparable to those of Axminster (www.axminster.co.uk), when you convert the sterling prices back to euro, but for heavier items (like bandsaws and lathes) Axminster's delivery charges get very high very quickly and at that stage Martin Gleeson's prices work out cheaper. He says himself that he is the main supplier for Axminster in this country, so it is no surprise that his prices are so similar to theirs. One thing though - remember to get a receipt from him when buying the tools, as he seems very forgetful when it comes to posting those out afterwards (not wanting to cast any doubt on his business practices here, as he was good to deal with when I went back to him on an issue with a piece of machinery even though I hadn't received a receipt, but it is good piece of mind to have the receipt).

As regards dust, the first thing is to view the problem as two distinct issues - collecting dust at the dust collection point on the machine, and capturing dust which is in the air (which is basically dust that the collector couldn't trap).

The likes of the Record dust collector from McQuillans is useful for attaching directly to machinery dust extraction outlets, but no dust collector will ever be able to successfully catch all of the finer dust (and many dust collectors will just spit out any finer dust anyway as the filters are not capable to trapping the very fine stuff - the fact that the finest dust is the stuff that poses more danger to your lungs just compounds matters). Also, the likes of sanders often just spit the dust everywhere anyway, even with a dust collector attached.

To deal with dust in the air, an air filter, such as this one by Jet might be appropriate. Martin Gleeson sells that particular one for about 320euro or so, so they are not cheap. There are other brands available for smaller areas and cheaper prices. Whether you go for one of these or not depends on your needs e.g. do you mind clearing dust out of your workshop manually?, is the dust likely to spread to other areas where you don't want it?, is the dust likely to make finishing a nightmare? Whether you use one or not though, even an air filter won't completely protect your lungs as you are going to be exposed to some of the dust before it reaches the filter - so use a mask. With a good air filter, you might be able to opt for a lighter-duty mask, but without any air filter you'll probably want a very good mask (some of the better disposable ones might do).

If you are looking for opinions or experiences with specific machinery, you might be able to find some useful info via the search facility here.

cormie

My reply to that is above it Doozerie, think something strange must have happened, thanks again for the help:)