Drowning amongst the fish

fattony99

Any advice on how to navigate through a field of 40/50 with maybe only 6 "knowledgable players" playing, and the rest complete fish?

The event is run monthly by a local soccer club for fundraising - £20 rebuy with a very punishing blind structure. Last couple of times i've busted out just after the break due to high blinds and bad beats.

Is pot luck just inevitable in a game like this? Should you keep playing solid or is it a case of when in Rome?

Dub13

The best way to play these events is only play premium hands,you cannot shake these kind of players of a hand if they decide to play a hand they will even if you raise 3/4/5 times the BB.So IMO play tight and when you hit the board play fast no point in letting them catch up.The only thing you can do is try and go in ahead.Then its up to lady luck...and she is known to be a bitch sometimes.

Problem is how to play these events when you are getting crap cards all night.You will also have to loosen up near the end if you are still there.

fattony99

You're spot on about the raises. Different sizes of raise and how your opponents read them are one of the main tools in no limit, but with these guys if they have face cards or a pair of twos they're calling all the way to the river. Frustrating in the extreme when the cards don't come your way.

Dub13

fattony99 wrote:

You're spot on about the raises. Different sizes of raise and how your opponents read them are one of the main tools in no limit, but with these guys if they have face cards or a pair of twos they're calling all the way to the river. Frustrating in the extreme when the cards don't come your way.

But it can work to your advantage like when you hit a monster...and still cant shake them off.One thing about pub players is there are very few re raises,so bet the right amount don't be waiting for a re raise as it will more then likely not happen.

fattony99

Thats something I hadn't considered actually, check-raising also I guess won't always go as planned as most of the players are passive calling stations - if it's been checked round to them it's almost as if they think it's bad manners to bet, yet the same player will call any bet you throw at him.

Dub13

Now you have it....when you do hit a big hand it can be embarrassingly easy to milk chips from them.The poor things,and that Q J looked so pretty pre flop.

Dub13

Keep us updated on how you get on.

a-k-47

90% of the time you'll never drown in live games with the fish, online mayb not live

ntlbell

a-k-47 wrote:

90% of the time you'll never drown in live games with the fish, online mayb not live

because fish don't hit flops live? wtf?

Dub13

a-k-47 wrote:

90% of the time you'll never drown in live games with the fish, online mayb not live

I would not say 90% of the time....but in the long run you will be in profit.

Ste05

a-k-47 wrote:

90% of the time you'll never drown in live games with the fish, online mayb not live

I find it's actually the exact opposite, :rolleyes: because live you're getting in alot less hands per blind level and so you can't always just sit there waiting for decent hands, and if the structure is bad, as the blinds go up quicker, you'll have to play more marginal hands than you would on-line, or else you'll be short stacked very quickly, by simply playing TAG.

To confound this problem I have, these fish aren't able to recognise certain plays that might work against more sophisticated players, so you can't really use them, meaning that you need to hit flops or make bigger bluffs, to try and take the pot down now, (obviously once you have outs if you're called :rolleyes: ) i.e. having to risk more of your stack if you don't hit a flop, many times in these tournaments I've found that you might only have enough chips for only 2 or 3 plays so if you're first two don't hit/work, you're in serious trouble, it's almost impossible to shake off these bloody fish calling machines.

I'm not sure this is making sense and I've noticed that this kind of tournament is a serious leak in my game, and why it's one of the main reasons I don't like to play live tournaments much, (my BR doesn't allow for the better structured tournaments - where I find myself in a Catch 22, having to risk a larger portion of my BR to gain meaningful experience, or play in these crap shoots, neither is too appealing) it means that basically unless I hit a hand and get some chips early that I can play with I need to get lucky, with a nice Pre-Flop hand, or hit a cheap flop. Having said all that I hope that this thread might prove to be very helpful, so lets keep it going lads......

Funkyzeit

Dub13 wrote:

.So IMO play tight .

Couldn't agree more - too many times in the past playing I've gone into hands I normally wouldn't have because I assume because the standard is ****e I'll win my fair share....bad mistake - £ words - Patience Patience Patience.... on IPT last night won the $182 on $25 no limit tables against such opposition.

a-k-47

i rely alot on tells in live games, and bad players are just to easy to read, i bet 1k on the flop, turn erm check...every time!..byebye

a-k-47

there is one thing that kinda gets to me , is that alot call with ace high, like its a magic fcuking card..

Dub13

a-k-47 wrote:

i rely alot on tells in live games,

But the problem here is allot of the time the people you are getting "tells" on in this scenario don't know what a good hand is/or were they are on a particular hand.So its very hard to play against.

a-k-47

mayb ive just been lucky in the live games ive played, or im just deadly lol

Fatboydim

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that the opposite of tight is required. Controversial I know but I shall explain why. Having played in a couple of these events I kept getting busted early... Mainly because I was playing tight and waiting for the big hands. An example hand was...
Me AA - Villain 67os I raise 4x BB I get a couple of callers. Flop K96 rainbow. I bet pot - Villain stays. turn 2 - I bet pot again. Villain stays. Now it's a massive pot. 6 on river. I smell a rat so check. 666 takes pot. Had I gone all in pre flop probably no action. Had I gone all in post flop - player would still call with bottom pair.

So I changed my game plan... Early on play all suited cards... all connectors... etc etc... Unless raised. If you hit - take them to the cleaners they will call. If you don't - fold. If there is an unlikely hand that can beat you such as 2 9 ... Then someone probably has it. The key as Ste05 says is that you can't make moves on people because they can't recognise the danger.

Ultimately though my advice would be don't play in these games.

Dub13

Fatboydim wrote:

Ultimately though my advice would be don't play in these games.

After playing in many many of these type of events I have come to the same conclusion.Its just to painful,and I play much better playing against people who know what they are doing.

Ste05

Dub13 wrote:

After playing in many many of these type of events I have come to the same conclusion.Its just to painful,and I play much better playing against people who know what they are doing.

Amen - my thoughts exactly, I'm sure we'll both get blasted, but this is my feeling exactly,

EDIT: Just to clarify, if there's 7 or 8 donkeys at the table, like at these tournaments, then Good night, the best thing you could hope for would be for about 5 players who know roughly what they're doing and the rest donkeys...... (You can always dream......)

fattony99

Fatboydim wrote:

Ultimately though my advice would be don't play in these games.

Amen.

Well, I stuck to the original plan of waiting for good hands, so I waited, and waited and waited a bit more and finally got some. Raised big, called by at least 2 others each time, sucked out on the river.
(QQ) beaten by(Q2), board Q28,7,2
(AA) beaten by (K3), board 5910,3,3
(AJs) beaten by (J4), board Jxx,3,4

to name a few, substantial raises pre flop each time, followed by big bets on each street, they just wouldn't go away.

Finally went out with (1010) all in after 648 flop vs (A2) guess the river.

So, if I do go back again, the style will be controlled maniacal methinks.

OilBeefHooked2

fattony99 wrote:

Amen.

Well, I stuck to the original plan of waiting for good hands, so I waited, and waited and waited a bit more and finally got some. Raised big, called by at least 2 others each time, sucked out on the river.
(QQ) beaten by(Q2), board Q28,7,2

.

I assume u had QQ here...?
If YES you didnt lose cause u have queens full of 2's and he only has 2's full of queens. !:eek:

fattony99

My mistake he had runner runner quads, the 7 should be a 2.

handsfree

the best way to play thes IMO is to play ur big hands strongly at the start and shake the players up. Then later on u can bluff with strong continuation bets . the beauty of this is that some players will call 2 bets drawing and fold on the river. If infact they have a hand they'll reraise possibly all in giving you the chance to fold