Christianity and Islam

smidgy

Is there unity or conflict between Christianity and Islam? I see Islam as a threat to Christianity partly because it undermines the position of Jesus. The Catholic catechism seems to allow for the coexistence of other religions (if I am quoting correctly).....

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

I know God works in mysterious ways but I cant understand how God would send Jesus as the son of God to the world and then send a prophet (Mohammed) contradicting Jesus' divinity. Surely one religion is the truth and the other is based on falsities. The best lies are those that are closest to the truth. Does Christianity not teach us that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that Christ is the only door to salvation.

What are your opinions on this.

Flukey

There is no conflict in that. Both religions, along with Judaism can trace back to Abraham. Jesus gets a lot of mentions in the Koran. Broadly the three religions, and indeed some others, have similar philosphies. Christianity can be put down to 2 elements: love God and love your neighbour. Most religions would follow that. As Christians we have to look upon other religions in those terms. True followers of the other religions will see no threat from any others, as we are all following a similar way of living. Of course there are differences, and some will focus on them and use them as a source of division. Once they do that, they are straying from their law of loving their neighbour. If we all follow our various religions, we can live in peace and there is no threat between us. So love God and love your neighbour and do not focus on the differences.

Asiaprod

Flukey wrote:

There is no conflict in that.

While I do appreciate your take on it Flukey, and agree with the sentiments you have expressed, I cannot help but feel that it is not a realistic answer to the original question "Is there unity or conflict between Christianity and Islam" It would be the ideal if we lived in a perfect world, but we do not.

IMHO there is conflict between Christianity and Islam (we are talking Religion in this post and not People), rather a lot of it to be frank. The common denominators that I am aware of is Islam believes in One God (but no trinity), the Day of Judgment and the Resurrection (life after death). All else appears to be in various degrees of conflict with what Christians believe in. Islam appears to be less tolerant than Christianity on a number of issues including other religions, homosexuality, and the role of women, the Bible and the NT.

Smidgy wrote:

The Catholic catechism seems to allow for the coexistence of other religions (if I am quoting correctly)

Well of course it does, the other option would be all out war, which has happened down through the ages (think of the history of the crusades) and is currently well underway with crazed Islamic fundamentalist groups like the Taliban and Al Queda. I believe that coexistence is also quoted (mandated) in both the Bible and NT.

Smidgy wrote:

I cant understand how God would send Jesus as the son of God to the world and then send a prophet (Mohammed) contradicting Jesus' divinity. Surely one religion is the truth and the other is based on falsities.

I think your are a little confused because by the fact that both religons look to the same God. A Christian believes in Jesus`s divinity, an Islamic does not. A Christian would answer yes, my religion is the truth and the other incorporates a number of falsities, a follower of Islam, would also say my religion is the truth and the other incorporates a number of falsities; i.e. There only one God, Jesus was not the son of God but was a prophet and Mohammed was the greatest and last Prophet to bring the final words of God to humanity So we reach a stalemate on that one. There are differences, there are conflicts and thats life. You have your beliefs, they have their`s. According to the Christian plan of salvation all who lead a just life will be saved, In contrast, Islam has a lot more to say on the issue of unbelievers,
The only approach, is as Flukey said, "LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR", and get on with your own life, but that does not appear today to be eaisily achieved.

Excelsior

smidgy wrote:

Is there unity or conflict between Christianity and Islam?

Both? Neither? Christianity is Christianity. It has lots of respect for most other faiths (scientology would be pushing it) but it doesn't claim to be Islam's best friend. You can't be both a Muslim and a Christian but Christians can be best friends with Muslims.

smidgy wrote:

I see Islam as a threat to Christianity partly because it undermines the position of Jesus.

Everything except Christianity undermines Jesus. Is Star Trek a threat to Christianity? It doesn't exalt Jesus as the Christ. I am kidding but my point is that Islam (or anything else at all) can't be a threat to Christianity. If Christianity is true, then it should fear nothing.

smidgy wrote:

I know God works in mysterious ways but I cant understand how God would send Jesus as the son of God to the world and then send a prophet (Mohammed) contradicting Jesus' divinity. Surely one religion is the truth and the other is based on falsities. The best lies are those that are closest to the truth. Does Christianity not teach us that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that Christ is the only door to salvation.

I think you are on very firm ground there Smidgy. Islam and Christianity do not amount to the same thing. In fact, they pull in opposite directions.

Flukey wrote:

Jesus gets a lot of mentions in the Koran.

Someone called Jesus gets a lot of mentions but he is not the Jesus of Christianity. Surely you are not arguing that the New Testament and the Koran can be reconciled?

Flukey wrote:

Christianity can be put down to 2 elements: love God and love your neighbour

The law of the one God Yahweh can be reduced to those 2 elements but that is not a reduction of Christianity. Christianity argues that God is 3 distinct persons making a whole consisting of God the Father, the Holy Spirit and the incarnation of God in the form of Jesus who is the Christ. Through Grace, liberation is available to all humans regardless of race, gender or status. That is Christianity in summary. I don't think you can argue that your definition fits history, text or practice.

Christianity and Islam can't be reconciled. Islam claims God is distant and one. Christianity claims that God is present and 3. Islam claims that we reach a sensory heaven through good works. Christianity claims that we reach an afterlife on a redeemed Earth with redeemed bodies through Grace.

It is a strange arrogance to claim that Islam (or any other belief system) can be reconfigured to align with Christianity. That does not mean that belief systems need to be at war. It is a strange foolishness on top of that strange arrogance to think that disagreement leads to war or even just acrimony. The freedom to disagree is one of the foundations for any dialogue and tolerance can't make sense without disagreement. Loving your neighbour definitely doesn't mean aggreeing with him or her. If anything, it means caring for them even when you find their beliefs and practices reprehensible.

So Smidgy, I disagree with Flukey in the sense that Islam and Christianity are not diametrically oppossed. They are. But that doesn't mean that Islam and Christianity need to be a threat to each other or in conflict with each other.

A really interesting ongoing conversation is whether Allah is Yahweh. What do folk think?

llatsni

Allah is Arabic for 'god', Arabic has only one word for god. So Arabic speaking Christians call Yahweh Allah.
But that doenst make Yahweh, the Christian Father God; one and the same as the Muslim Allah. Its merely a word.

I'm not really educated in this stuff to REALLY spell out the details as to why I believe that Allah is not Yahweh, but I've always wondered - if Allah is not Yahweh, what about the Jewish God. Do Jews worship the Christian Father God? If so is it akin to a sect ONLY worshipping the Holy Spirit and denying the existance of Father God or Jesus???

Anyhoo,
Paul

wolfsbane

Smidgy said:
Is there unity or conflict between Christianity and Islam? I see Islam as a threat to Christianity partly because it undermines the position of Jesus.

I understand you to refer to the religions, not to the supporters of these religions; to conflict of theology rather than physical warfare. So I agree with you and Excelsior - Islam is in direct opposition to Christianity, primarily in regard to its view of Christ and of the way of salvation. But as Excelsior says, its war against the faith is ultimately futile.

The Catholic catechism seems to allow for the coexistence of other religions (if I am quoting correctly).....

That's my reading of it too. In fact, when the Catechism was first published I got a copy and checked up several doctrines. If I remember correctly, not only does it teach the salvation of all who acknowledge the Creator, it also says that all who would have believed in Him had their circumstances allowed them a clear hearing of the gospel. So that covers heathens of all sorts, and maybe even the atheists on this list.:eek::eek::eek:

Anyway, the RCC knows it has to give some cover to its posterior on this - it can't just tear up its 'infallible' historical position on salvation. So the basis of these folks salvation is then said to come from the merits kept in store by the RCC, which is dispensed by God on the erstwhile Muslims, Jews, heathens and atheists. Very clever, eh?

But it is not Christianity. It is not what Christ said to the religious leaders who adhered to what we would today call Judaism:
John 8:21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”
22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

wolfsbane

What exactly are you objecting to, Asiaprod?

My relating the contents of The Catholic Catechism? The humerous use of the eek function? My disagreeing with Roman Catholic doctrine? I think all three categories have been used in regard to many views on this forum.

Perhaps you will enlighten this pratt?

wolfsbane

Thank you trying to defend your objections.

Both posterior and the fact that that others have objected to the use of RRC or RC

Posterior? Surely you're not a prude - at least not from what I see in your posts! You really object to this figure of speech for a defensive manouvre, or are you just trying to silence opposition?

As pointed out by others, RC and RCC are normal abbreviations, perfectly acceptable to all but those who might want an unquestioned special status for the Roman Catholic Church. I thought those days were over for the Irish Republic. I could raise better objections to the use of Catholic to describe the Roman Catholic Church, in that all Christian churches claim to be Catholic. But I don't, for it is easy short-hand, especially for Catholics - see what I mean?

2. and maybe even the atheists on this list. (based on your attitude in the creation thread, I don't see this as a simple eek function)

You presume a lot about my attitude. Just because I criticise evolutionists, doesn't mean I hate them. In fact, I sympathise with their dilemna, once having been there myself. I want nothing less for them than I want for myself.

The use of the eek function was to fake horror - on behalf of the atheists - at the prospect of being 'saved' without their knowledge. Sorry you missed that.

3. your insane urge to push the Bible down the throats of everyone in every post is considered by me to be nothing short of ignorant and intolerence of what others believe.

I have presented my case and given Biblical references to support it. You classify that as forcing it down people's throats. You have presented your case and given whatever supporting evidence you thought fit. I did not regard that as forcing it down my throat.

What you seem to be saying is that unless one considers all other views possibly true, one is a bigot. I on the other hand respect people who argue from what they believe to be true, knowing that they therefore must regard my treasured beliefs erroneous. Your absolute, invincible agnosticism is just downright illogical.

You have never set out to help or clarify, you only push you're ideas and belittle those who do not agree with you.

That is a serious charge. Give your evidence. Because I expose your arguments as rubbish does not mean I regard you as such.

Finally, my post to which you object was attempting to agree with Smidgy's conclusion, and to give further explanation of what I understand is the RCC's position. I would have thought that both helped and clarified.

wolfsbane

Asiaprod said:
Do you honestly expect me to waste time answering this rubbish??

I didn't ask you to interrupt with your abusive comments in the first place. Seeing you did, I expected you would be able to defend your allegations. It's OK with me if you don't. I'm not offended by your contempt - it is a common response to the gospel.

If Smidgy had felt I had dealt dishonestly with his question or had treated him demeaningly, I would be open to reason with him. Your response seems to just an attempt to silence those who expose your arguments. That is especially evident when one reads your own posts on the RCC and others with whom you disagree, and then hear your protests against JC and myself.

Let's just get on with the issues, not personalities.

smidgy

Asiaprod and wolfsbane. I am a little lost as to where you are taking this discussion. I appreciate both your contributions to this board.

Although I believe that Jesus is the only path to salvation,I also believe salvation cannot be a Christian only club. That is clearly a total contradiction but I think there is room for this kind of contradiction in religion. For example in the same way that Jesus was wholly man and wholly God on earth.

I have always though that Allah and Yahweh were meant to be one and the same - is it not just a name that we put on the creator?

Excelsior

I really like the way you deal with the tension between Jesus being the only way and the man-made institution of Christianity not being the monopoly gateway to him Smidgy.

I would be open to the idea that they are the same thing but in my study of the Koran (not nearly extensive by any means) the image of Allah is not reconcilable with that of Yahweh. Yahweh is passionately involved in the life of his Creation. He loves, he feels. It isn't merely misleading human language struggling to describe something we will never grasp. Yahweh cares.

Allah however is impassive. He is detached and removed and the idea of him getting entangled in the affairs of man would be blasphemous. The two pictures are different. They don't seem to me to be different angles on the one character but competing pictures. Then you consider the point you have already raised about the apparent irrelevance of a prophet after Jesus in the form of Mohammed and the most central issue of all- the Christhood of Jesus and it seems to me that Allah cannot be Yahweh. (Except for the sense that Ilatsni has pointed out).

I have pmed both Asiaprod and Wolfsbane about their antics. Keep it on topics guys.

wolfsbane

Excelsior said:
The two pictures are different. They don't seem to me to be different angles on the one character but competing pictures.

I agree. Yes, there are similarities; but the differences are basic (fundemental, if I dare use that word). I believe an apt Scripture is:
John 4:19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

There were similarities between the Samaritan's God and the God of Israel - but the former was a corrupt version of the latter and therefore not God at all. The God the Jews worshipped was the real God. Yet most of them were lost, for they worshipped the real God improperly. They sought to establish their own righteousness, rather than submit to the righteousness of God. Works (merit) was their way to God; faith in God, reliance on Christ's merit, is what God required. So too with Islam and Christianity - Muslims are worshipping a false god; but many who call themselves Christians are really lost, for they are not worshipping 'in spirit and truth'.

Excelsior

Would a sign that I am lost (for not worshipping in spirit and truth) be that I am put off by the way you quote scripture constantly, even when discussing things with folk who don't hold it as authoritative?

As a general rule Wolfsbane, I link to the passage I cite. I find it tends to annoy non Christians less.

I might take issue with your characterisation of 2nd Temple Judaism and the sectarian conflict centred on the Samaritans but I would have a great deal of sympathy with the idea that the Islamic conception of God is fundamentally oppossed to that of Yahweh. However, it is important to not let the age we live in dictate our terms of engagement and I think we can discuss this difference without slipping into war metaphors.

If for no other reason, it will leave us Christians ripe for cynical punning.

wolfsbane

Excelsior said:
Would a sign that I am lost (for not worshipping in spirit and truth) be that I am put off by the way you quote scripture constantly, even when discussing things with folk who don't hold it as authoritative?

I've no reason to think you are lost, even if we don't see eye to eye on some things.

I know they don't hold Scripture as authoritive, but if they are asking for a Christian perspective (among others) surely it is appropriate to show what Christianity actually teaches?

As a general rule Wolfsbane, I link to the passage I cite. I find it tends to annoy non Christians less.

That would be because they can ignore the passage (they won't bother looking it up). When it is there before them, it is difficult to just pass by, even if it may upset their ideas. But some non-Christians are seeking truth and won't be annoyed in any case.

I think we can discuss this difference without slipping into war metaphors.

Sorry, Bro., I must have missed something here. What war metaphor was used?

Asiaprod

Sorry about that Smidgy, things got personal and a bit off track there for a while. I have put my magic bow and arrows back in the closet:)

wolfsbane

Smidgy said:
I also believe salvation cannot be a Christian only club

Hmmm, why so?

I have always though that Allah and Yahweh were meant to be one and the same - is it not just a name that we put on the creator?

The names have been used interchangeably by some - with great opposition from the Muslims - but the Gods to whom they refer are very different.

robindch

> The names have been used interchangeably by some [...]
> but the Gods to whom they refer are very different.

Reminds me of the line about the Odyssey not being written by Homer at all, but by another guy of the same name...

smidgy

I also believe salvation cannot be a Christian only club

I dont really have a good answer as to why I believe this. I acknowledge your questioning this and god knows you could be right. God has his plan and it is very difficult for us to see what it is in the larger scheme of things. One could look at the christians in the same way the Jews were the chosen people and all the other peoples at that time were left to their false gods. Why did God come to the Jews alone?
However,
There is purpose behind God creating and bringing each one of us to this planet. When God brings a newborn child into a musilm house he knows that child will not worship Jesus. So therefore he knows at the outset that that child cannot be saved. If so then that child has no chance to redeem himself and his existence on earth is futile. To be kept from salvation because of something that was not your fault just does not seem just.

Excelsior

I think you are explaining yourself very well Smidgy. Initially what I understood from your comment was that Christianity is often laden with manmade cultural values and emphases that are either not priorities of Jesus or not Jesus' at all. In that sense, one can imagine ways for people to authentically follow Christ without being part of Christian sub-culture.

llatsni

Christianity (or any of its denominations) is not Salvation. Christianity is not the road to Salvation. Jesus, and only Jesus Christ is where one can find salvation. I am a firm believer that one can find Jesus anywhere and anytime. You could be a Muslim working in the Taliban council in Afghanistan and find salvation in Jesus Christ - do you instantly become a christianised bible-bashing-bornagain-believer; no, but, true relationship with Jesus is transforming, and experience and testimony has shown me that knowing and experiencing Jesus leads one away from a futile and "bible-contradicting" lifestyle.

wolfsbane

Smidgy said:
There is purpose behind God creating and bringing each one of us to this planet. When God brings a newborn child into a musilm house he knows that child will not worship Jesus. So therefore he knows at the outset that that child cannot be saved. If so then that child has no chance to redeem himself and his existence on earth is futile. To be kept from salvation because of something that was not your fault just does not seem just.

The issue is resolved when we understand that our sinfulness is our fault, as well as being our inherited condition. We just naturally reject God and His way; we happily go our own way. So it is not a matter of innocent - or even of morally neutral - folk being condemned to hell. By nature we are all 'children of wrath', that is, deserving of God's punishment. No one has to teach us to be selfish, we just grow up to be so, in various degrees.

As to God's purpose in bringing into existence those who will never repent and believe, that is His business. He is the potter, we the clay. That He has mercy on any of us is the real puzzle. The apostle puts it better than I can:
Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

wolfsbane

llatsni said:
Christianity (or any of its denominations) is not Salvation. Christianity is not the road to Salvation. Jesus, and only Jesus Christ is where one can find salvation.

I totally agree. One cannot be saved by joining a local church. We must personally come to God in repentance and faith.

I am a firm believer that one can find Jesus anywhere and anytime.

Yes, NOW is the day of salvation - one may come whenever and where ever they hear the gospel invitation.

You could be a Muslim working in the Taliban council in Afghanistan and find salvation in Jesus Christ - do you instantly become a christianised bible-bashing-bornagain-believer; no, but, true relationship with Jesus is transforming, and experience and testimony has shown me that knowing and experiencing Jesus leads one away from a futile and "bible-contradicting" lifestyle.

I think I see what you are saying: that once one comes to saving faith in Christ, there may be a process to fully living as He intended. He commanded us to live in fellowship with our fellow believers in Christ; He commanded us to study His word; to pray; to remember Him in the breaking of bread and drinking of wine at His table; to evangelize the lost; to exhort and encourage one another; to meet together to do all these. For the new convert, especially in an anti-Christian enviroment, all these may not be obvious, but the Holy Spirit within him will lead him to them bit by bit.

Is that what you meant?

Asiaprod

wolfsbane wrote:

Is that what you meant?

Is that what you meant?

I have a feeling that there were not so may commands with llatsni ideals.
I think the point was more to get to know Christ and what he stood for. In other words, it is more a personal transformation.
I hardly think a converted Muslim in a Taliban council would be in any position to evangelize to the lost.
That IMHO that would be an express ticket to the next world. And please don`t tell me he would be a martyred and all that goes with it. He would be stupid to open his mouth in this situation. No religion that I know of requires its members to commit suicide, in fact, they all exhort the sanctity and importance of life at all costs. You honestly kill any good you are trying to do buy pushing all these divine commands and regulations.
Temper you ardor a little bit and you will open yourself up to much more interesting dialogues.:)

wolfsbane

Asiaprod said:

I hardly think a converted Muslim in a Taliban council would be in any position to evangelize to the lost.
That IMHO that would be an express ticket to the next world. And please don`t tell me he would be a martyred and all that goes with it. He would be stupid to open his mouth in this situation. No religion that I know of requires its members to commit suicide, in fact, they all exhort the sanctity and importance of life at all costs. You honestly kill any good you are trying to do buy pushing all these divine commands and regulations.

Your comments are indeed wise, in so far as this world's wisdom goes. But it is not Christianity. While we must have discretion, secret discipleship is not an option for a Christian. We must bear witness to the grace of God toward us. Christ said, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels." Luke 9:23-26.

We must carry out His great commission - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”, Matthew 28:19,20.

Many converts from Islam have paid dearly for their love of Christ. Same goes for Christian converts from many other religions and ideaologies, and not just in the 'unenlightened' past. Today Christians suffer imprisonment and death in China, Egypt, Iran, India, Mexico, East Timor - anywhere where the Christians refuse to say 'Caesar is Lord' or its modern equivalent.

Temper you ardor a little bit and you will open yourself up to much more interesting dialogues.

Interesting perhaps, but without profit to either of us. If I can in some little way emulate Paul in his discussions with the Aeropagus, I will be content. That august body questioned him on his teaching and he did not present some philosophical speculation, but told them plainly and forthrightly the truth he had received:
Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

wasper

When the Romans took over Christianity, they re-designed it to comply with Roman philosophy.
They created a 3 headed god Called the father, the son & the holy spirit. The Romans had many gods & the idea of worshiping one god was appalling & unthinkable.
Judiasm, Chrisitianity & Islam are like 3 steps to god. There are many similarities between Judiasm & Islam. But the middle step is completely out of shape with the rest.
The so called Chrisitanity that you believe in, is based on fads & popular beliefs of the day. Just like a politician will say what the crowd wants to hear.
So Chrisitanity has become very fluid & is not the same when Christ walked on earth.
the romans did a great job twisting & obliterating the message from Christ beyond recognition.

wolfsbane

wasper said:

So Chrisitanity has become very fluid & is not the same when Christ walked on earth.
the romans did a great job twisting & obliterating the message from Christ beyond recognition.

And you know this because...? What textual evidence do you have? The earliest manuscripts of the New Testament and quotations of the NT of those times show the NT we have today. It is mere fancy/wishful thinking by those opposed to Christianity to deny this.

The corruption of the church by Roman paganism never managed to rewrite the Bible. It was too widespread, amongst too many different people perhaps. The divisions that arose in the church were over interpretations of the text, not the text itself. I can think of only one heretic who messed with the text - Marcion, who removed most of the NT not written by Paul. He did so because it did not match the sort of God he imagined. Just like the liberal theologians of today.

smidgy

The so called Chrisitanity that you believe in, is based on fads & popular beliefs of the day.....So Chrisitanity has become very fluid & is not the same when Christ walked on earth.

What is your source? Surely the only source is the bible. Am I missing some other essential reading?