How about a "Poker: Off-Topic" sub-forum?

Lafortezza

It's a quiet day in work and various random stuff has been floating through my mind (more than usual).

Fatboydim's thread about Stormfront got me thinking about how the poker forum has to be fairly strict about non-poker threads due to the large amount of traffic it gets. The badbeat/rant sticky has been a big success in corraling low content posts into a handy "read it or don't" single thread.

There's quite a few intelligent people that post on the poker forum and a good community has grown since the forum was created. People know each other from live games/home games/playing in the Fitz or Merrion or wherever. It's not something you see in many fora on boards.ie tbh.

Off-topic threads on the poker forum at the moment would be moved to their relevant forum elsewhere on boards, be it politics/football/other gambling/whatever.
I personally think it'd be good to have somewhere that the poker community on boards could talk about other stuff beyond the realms of the poker table.
It'd be less diluted than threads on other forums around the site.

Think of it as a community board to shoot the shít as it were.
Obviously the last word would rest with DeVore and the admins, and maybe it's a totally terrible idea. Maybe I'm missing something and that it'd a complete waste of time.

Ste05

I like this idea, although I get the feeling it might make the clique reputation this forum has even worse..... But I voted for a Yes....

jacQues

lafortezza wrote:

maybe it's a totally terrible idea. Maybe I'm missing something and that it'd a complete waste of time.

Yes and no.

Off-topic means two things:

1. It should not be posted 'here' in the first place.
2. There is probably a good place for it elsewhere, where people are actually interested in the thread.

For 2, see the other board meantioned. What is off-topic here, is on-topic there. What do you think the response would be if you started a "There's a $100 bet into me, should I fold/call/raise?" thread 'there'?! In other words, keep on-topic by posting the thread onto the correct board. This board (or section anyways) is for poker. Therefore, please keep all threads on that subject or be at least poker-related.

jacQues

mewso

I know we might like to stick together here but aren't we part of boards and isn't off topic stuff covered elsewhere.

Hectorjelly

jacQues wrote:

[*]There is probably a good place for it elsewhere, where people are actually interested in the thread.

I get your point here, and maybe Im being lazy - but I like all the posters here and have respect for their opinions and so would be interested in their discussions on other topics. This does not hold for the rest of the boards community. Which is why I think this is a good idea.

The antes up sub section doesnt seem to get much traffic and most of the issues could be covered here IMO, so that might be the perfect place for it.

henbane

You're suggesting creating a forum for people too stupid to use boards.

Culchie

Hectorjelly wrote:

I like all the posters here and have respect for their opinions issues.

:eek:

Lafortezza

jacQues wrote:

Yes and no.

Off-topic means two things:

1. It should not be posted 'here' in the first place.
2. There is probably a good place for it elsewhere, where people are actually interested in the thread.

For 2, see the other board meantioned. What is off-topic here, is on-topic there. What do you think the response would be if you started a "There's a $100 bet into me, should I fold/call/raise?" thread 'there'?! In other words, keep on-topic by posting the thread onto the correct board. This board (or section anyways) is for poker. Therefore, please keep all threads on that subject or be at least poker-related.

jacQues

I'm not sure I get what you're saying 100% JacQues, my basic idea was that I think there could be interesting discussions about non-poker topics amongst the poker forum people. I'm probably more interested in what alot of people on the poker forum have to say than the vast majority of other boards people about a range of stuff. I'd value their opinions more.

The poker forum would still continue its poker-only way of doing things, the off-topic sub-forum would be for anything else really.

As for the clique side of things? With any online group of punters that know each other there's always going to be in-jokes and comments that new people don't get and assume that we're all Ugly Elitists like Marq.
I think the poker forum would be a much poorer place if we were all totally anonymous and didn't have the cliquish community thing going on.

Lafortezza

henbane wrote:

You're suggesting creating a forum for people too stupid to use boards.

I'm suggesting creating a forum so that I can avoid having to go to the After Hours forum to talk about topic XYZ with hundreds of people about whose opinions I couldn't give a toss.

musician wrote:

I know we might like to stick together here but aren't we part of boards and isn't off topic stuff covered elsewhere.

Yep, this is probably why an off-topic forum shouldn't be given a second thought. I was just firing the idea out there to see what people thought.

There's alot of clever and interesting people on the poker forum, and alot of them don't post elsewhere on boards. And apart from those I've met and had pints with in person I've never had a discussion about anything but poker.

Lex

lafortezza wrote:

I'm probably more interested in what alot of people on the poker forum have to say than the vast majority of other boards people about a range of stuff. I'd value their opinions more.

Agreed. Discussions would be between like minded people with the same interets. And for the poker-only posters, it would be very easy to just not visit the sub-forum.

jimbling

i voted that it could work..... and simply that... is it much effort to set it up? just throw it in there for a few weeks and see what happens. I think some interesting topics and conversations could come out of it....

jacQues

lafortezza wrote:

I'm not sure I get what you're saying 100% JacQues

I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer.

Let me just say that I'm using this board because I am interested in poker in general and certain poker issues in detail. If this board would be a mix of poker and other non-poker stuff, I would not be here. Simply because already most threads here I enter, only to see that I'm not all that interested in reading them (and those are on-topic). If you add other 'things' as well, I would lose interest pure from the fact that its too messy and would take me too much time (relative to the threads I do want to read).

Also, I don't feel that a sub-forum would be a correct fix. People tend to "bring conversations into other conversations". Meaning that if there is a certain discussion going on there it would definitely reflect in the threads of the main poker forum.

I think other people will have simular thoughts and responses on this matter. Which means that those people may also 'leave' this board if that were to happen. Of-course you will gain new people, ones that want a mixed board. The rules and structure of the board yields the average user-imago. Or in plain English - if you allow off-topic threads the average attitude by the users will change (because you attract/repel different users). So if you do all that, it may change your opinion about how you value the users of this board, which is your reasoning for allowing off-topic threads in the first place.

lafortezza wrote:

I think the poker forum would be a much poorer place if we were all totally anonymous and didn't have the cliquish community thing going on.

Hold on. Its a choice. You can be 100% anonymous if you want. Simply get a free hotmail/yahoo/whatever e-mail address and sign up with a non-giving-away username. I have no problem with the fact that people know me, have my phone number etc. If you do, its up to you to keep your anonymousity.

jacQues

amp

henbane wrote:

You're suggesting creating a forum for people too stupid to use boards.

Quoted for truth.

What's next? A poker players forum for soccer, because you probably don't value any of their opinions either. Then a Games forum for poker players. Sure feck it, why not re-create the entirity of boards.ie within a subforum of the poker forum? That way you could experience the whole of boards without having to see those smelly non-poker players.

Imposter

But by not setting it up you are inflicting the posters here on the wider board's community :eek: I can just imagine Nicky and HJ finding a home on PI, fücktards, donkeys et all!:p

Seriously though the other forums exist for a reason so they should be used for that reason. The other alternative is a private forum but then you really would have that clique thing going.

Fatboydim

I think it's a great idea... But then I would wouldn't I. And who's to say it wouldn't have an effect on our poker playing? Say for example I find out that Hectorjelly has a thing for Angela Lansbury - Next time I play against him I could throw his train of thought by discussing the latest Murder She Wrote episode.

I think the key here is as lafortezza says - The majority of posters here are intelligent people - Therefore a good debate might be had. Also sometimes you just want to make a comment rather than have an in depth discussion with completely knowledgeable bods.

For example I like Hurling but I'd feel lost if I went to the Hurling forum to talk about it - I do come from Mayo after all.

Culchie

Imposter wrote:

But by not setting it up you are inflicting the posters here on the wider board's community :eek: I can just imagine Nicky and HJ finding a home on PI, fücktards, donkeys et all!:p

Yes, I'm finding the moderators of the politics forum quite a challenge at the moment.

I'm on a 'orange card' at the moment after two bannings.:D

NickyOD

I think an off topic sub-forum should be allowed for posters who have posted over a certain number of threads in the poker forum. The Boards Poker forum is the home forum for a lot of posters and I'm certain everyone would like to occasionally overlook the poker posts and read some light hearted humour.

I've posted on dbpoker.com since it's creation and there is a humour section which is more popular than the strategy posts.

I also need somewhere to post links like this

http://media.putfile.com/CrazyLady20

Marq

Ugly Elitist

Fatboydim

jacQues wrote:

If you add other 'things' as well, I would lose interest pure from the fact that its too messy and would take me too much time (relative to the threads I do want to read).

Isn't it simple enough to not go into that part if it doesn't interest you? For example I never read the Bad beat sticky.

Hectorjelly

Fatboydim wrote:

Say for example I find out that Hectorjelly has a thing for Angela Lansbury - Next time I play against him I could throw his train of thought by discussing the latest Murder She Wrote episode.

I do have a thing for older women

NickyOD

lafortezza wrote:

I'm not sure I get what you're saying 100% JacQues, my basic idea was that I think there could be interesting discussions about non-poker topics amongst the poker forum people. I'm probably more interested in what alot of people on the poker forum have to say than the vast majority of other boards people about a range of stuff. I'd value their opinions more.

This is exactly why there should be off topic discussions. I'm ****ing sick of people I meet every day who don't want to talk to me about anything but Poker or IT because they that's all I'm about. When I meet strangers I make a point of not telling them about either my IT or poker careers because I want to talk about something else for change. Us poker players are an intelligent bunch. We can talk about pretty much anything.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

I do have a thing for older women

Because they can't run away as fast as the younger ones?

ntlbell

NickyOD wrote:

I think an off topic sub-forum should be allowed for posters who have posted over a certain number of threads in the poker forum. The Boards Poker forum is the home forum for a lot of posters and I'm certain everyone would like to occasionally overlook the poker posts and read some light hearted humour.

I've posted on dbpoker.com since it's creation and there is a humour section which is more popular than the strategy posts.

I also need somewhere to post links like this

http://media.putfile.com/CrazyLady20

Phil Helmuth's sister after a bad beat?

Lafortezza

amp wrote:

That way you could experience the whole of boards without having to see those smelly non-poker players.

Yeah, that's a large part of it. Thanks for summing it up.

bohsman

henbane wrote:

You're suggesting creating a forum for people too stupid to use boards.

I believe the knights of somethingoranother have a similar forum?

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

Because they can't run away as fast as the younger ones?

No because they are more cost effective and people dont miss them as fast

Lafortezza

jacQues wrote:

If this board would be a mix of poker and other non-poker stuff, I would not be here. Simply because already most threads here I enter, only to see that I'm not all that interested in reading them (and those are on-topic). If you add other 'things' as well, I would lose interest pure from the fact that its too messy and would take me too much time (relative to the threads I do want to read).

I wouldn't want non-poker stuff to affect the main poker forum either. The main poker forum is pretty strictly modded of late, and the signal to noise ratio is quite good. There'd be no reason for that to change.

Which means that those people may also 'leave' this board if that were to happen.

The clamping down on off-topic and low content threads since Musician and I were added as mods has already lost the forum a few regulars. I remember several comments in various threads showing this.
If you make any changes to a forum or to how a forum operates some people will like it and some won't, as a result some people leave and/or new people join or become regulars.

lafortezza wrote:

I think the poker forum would be a much poorer place if we were all totally anonymous and didn't have the cliquish community thing going on.

Hold on. Its a choice. You can be 100% anonymous if you want. Simply get a free hotmail/yahoo/whatever e-mail address and sign up with a non-giving-away username. I have no problem with the fact that people know me, have my phone number etc. If you do, its up to you to keep your anonymousity.
jacQues

Yes, I know that people can be 100% anonymous on this forum, what I'm saying is that the poker forum would be worse than it is now if nobody knew each other at all. That's one of the big pluses for me about this place, when I'm back in Dublin I'll be going for pints with quite a few of the usual suspects from the poker board. I think the sense of community is fantastic.

Rodge

lafortezza wrote:

It's not something you see in many fora on boards.ie tbh.

Jesus, lol @ fora

I voted Yes for OTF as I believe in the long term it would be a reason for people to stay and become part of the Boards Poker scene.

Good plan Mr. The Strongness Sir

NickyOD

lafortezza wrote:

The clamping down on off-topic and low content threads since Musician and I were added as mods has already lost the forum a few regulars. I remember several comments in various threads showing this.
If you make any changes to a forum or to how a forum operates some people will like it and some won't, as a result some people leave and/or new people join or become regulars.

If we could discuss football, gadgets, toilet humour, poker AND soft porn this would be the greatest forum on the internet. As the forum's most respected mod it is your duty to make it so.

The Snapper

ntlbell wrote:

Phil Helmuth's sister after a bad beat?

Pure class .

jacQues

NickyOD wrote:

This is exactly why there should be off topic discussions. I'm ****ing sick of people I meet every day who don't want to talk to me about anything but Poker or IT because they that's all I'm about. When I meet strangers I make a point of not telling them about either my IT or poker careers because I want to talk about something else for change. Us poker players are an intelligent bunch. We can talk about pretty much anything.

I personally don't have that problem. And I'm in the IT as well. I have never had a problem talking about other things, be it in real-life or on-line. And also, that wasn't my point. My point was that there is a place for things, especially on-line.

I don't think its fair to compare real-life with this poker board. For example, on-line you 'meet' a thousand times more people then in real-life. To cut it down to overseeable numbers, its more structured. Like this board is just and only for poker. For me, I'm here for poker and not to be social or be socially active. I laugh at anyone claiming they have a social life here on this board. For me, only real-life can do that. If you do want such a thing, I would suggest using a generic "chatting" board (because those can be social indeed).

That is my opinion. And yes, I joined because its being moderated properly. Different people, different tastes. And I do respect other people's opinions and such. But I don't see this board as "social" in any way you portrait, just as an device used to gain information about poker tactics and (social) poker events.

Before anyone thinks about replying, please read all my posts in this thread first, and PM me. - thanks

jacQues

Hectorjelly

jacQues wrote:

Before anyone thinks about replying, please read all my posts in this thread first, and PM me. - thanks

jacQues

no

Hectorjelly

Clearly the deciding factor should be will this new forum attract attractive older women.

mewso

jacQue - While I'm not sure if an off topic sub-forum is a good idea I do think that it is highly unlikely to encroach on your usage of this forum. It would be seperate. i.e. you could stay away from it.
I know, have socialised and played poker with alot of folks here and some I consider friends. If you consider that laughable then so be it.

Iago

Hectorjelly wrote:

Clearly the deciding factor should be will this new forum attract attractive older women.

I like where your heads at!

DeVore

I've given this quite a bit of thought, not because of this thread, I had kinda come to the same conclusion as LaForteza. (Who's name has just struck me as being the same as the security guard in Clerks neh? But I digress).

Here's the problem. We simply dont really have space here. As Amp said, next thing you know we'll have a Poker >> Motors > Modified Super Trucks forum for the poker players who are also into super trucks.
Come to think of it, thats where Boards came from, from a quake forum that had too much chatter about work and sports in it so we created the work, afterhours and sports forums. 5 years later... see what we get?!

I have a possible solution though and I'll expand on this in a new thread when I'm sure of what I want to do.
Basically, Mike and I were talking about the Antesup forums. We like the idea because there are lots of people who are not on boards who might chat there, BUT we both love this forum and don't want to detract from it.

Initially my concern was about Omaha, I'd love to see a sub forum for it as I suck donkey testes at it and could do with an intensive read up about it.
But also there needs to be a forum for tournie reporting the same way BlondePoker do it, as that lets you talk back to us when we are on the road.
And a few other specialist forums, and perhaps a "NOTHING TO DO WITH POKER AT ALL" forum, for more general chatter and the sort of discussion we are talking about here.

This cannot happen on Boards.

The reasons for this are multiple and I might need to psychically transfer 5 years of experience in forums to you to be clear about that, but it just wont work here. Boards is a country-sized site and beyond a certain point specifics and niche sub areas will need their own attention. For example, we don't have a sub forum for every club in the premiership which would seem critical to fans of each club, as we simply cannot user-interface that breadth of forums at that depth in the site. Theres a point at which specialist topics need to start again and drill further into the detail.

But I like this forum and want it to survive any move or change. Before this summer I would have been concerned about that but as LaFort says, the traffic levels here now are sky high and in fact the forum could probably DO with a pressure release.

Now, Antesup is moving host and going to get a bit of a rejig of the design (not much, but better navigation and a new host so we don't get as much downtime). When thats done we will officially relaunch the site and the forums will be a part of that relaunch. This will happen before xmas.

Once we have that done, we as a community can decide what we want to have where. I think the idea of sub partition is good but I think we should off-load it to Antesup.com for more space.

DeV.

Dub13

NickyOD wrote:

If we could discuss football, gadgets, toilet humour, poker AND soft porn this would be the greatest forum on the internet. As the forum's most respected mod it is your duty to make it so.

I agree 100%.

PS:Nicky for your soft porn "needs" PM lafortezza for access to Slydice

henbane

musician wrote:

I know, have socialised and played poker with alot of folks here and some I consider friends. If you consider that laughable then so be it.

LAME!

Lafortezza

DeVore wrote:

I had kinda come to the same conclusion as LaForteza. (Who's name has just struck me as being the same as the security guard in Clerks neh? But I digress).

Nope, far more geeky than even that unfortunately, Championship Manager

Devore wrote:

Initially my concern was about Omaha, I'd love to see a sub forum for it as I suck donkey testes at it and could do with an intensive read up about it.

There's not too many Omaha threads really, and in some ways Omaha is a far simpler game than holdem, you either have a big hand, a big draw or nothing, and then it's down to pot odds and minor reads and stuff.

Devore wrote:

But I like this forum and want it to survive any move or change. Before this summer I would have been concerned about that but as LaFort says, the traffic levels here now are sky high and in fact the forum could probably DO with a pressure release.

I agree that the poker forum itself it chock full, and that's even with me and Muso locking/merging/binning any superfluous posts and threads. Any time I checked the forum today between 9am and 5pm there was 25+ people viewing the forum, that's probably fairly high up the list on busy forums, especially one for a niche hobby that's hidden away under Games->Real World Games->Poker.

Devore wrote:

Once we have that done, we as a community can decide what we want to have where. I think the idea of sub partition is good but I think we should off-load it to Antesup.com for more space.
DeV.

I vaguely recall you saying some months back that boards.ie has a massive catch-all and 'omg must return to that site cos its teh best' factor. The reason that p45.net and similar sites have crashed and burned. Boards is simply so incredibly big that people don't bother surfing similar multi-subject forums because Boards.ie has it all under one roof so to speak.

That's why I would wonder if 2 seperate poker forums on different sites would work. I think the antes-up site is great, the WSOP and ETP reports were very very good. But when the boards.ie poker forum is so fantastic people may shy away from similar sites. No offence to the poker.ie lads but they have the perfect URL and site name but very little traffic on their forums compared to boards.


My main point when writing this thread in the first place was that this poker forum has a really good community spirit. But all we ever do is talk about poker. Ever. It has to be that way or the place would be like After Hours.
I'd really like to have a place to discuss everything non-poker with those who check on and post in the poker forum proper.
For instance I never knew that HJ had a thing for 50+ year old women. I can't go and post in AH or PI or the S&S forum as it'd be off-topic and people there wouldn't get it, and just pm-ing him would cause others to miss the opportunity to point and laugh

Whether the "poker: off-topic" forum is created as a sub-forum of Poker, or as a hosted forum or as a forum on Antes-up isn't up to me by a long shot. But I do think it's needed. And I do think it'd be good for the community.

Doc Farrell

Great idea Luke,

we ought to have a poker forum like the hendon mobs where u can talk about whatever the hell u want with every muppet under the sun.

and i'm not being sarcastic, i genuinely think we should be able to discuss all sorts of drunken nonsense late at night when we're working at the tables.

Also i don't really have much to add to poker related 'what do u think of this hand' kind of threads anymore.

if it is moved to antes up thats fine with me.

and i too like Angela Lansbury.

cheers, d.

Lafortezza

nobody can spell my username correctly.

Dub13

Doc Farrell wrote:

and i'm not being sarcastic, i genuinely think we should be able to discuss all sorts of drunken nonsense late at night when we're working at the tables.

Doc
Don't you do that already....:p

ocallagh

Dub13 wrote:

Doc
Don't you do that already....:p

we should have a "Doc Farrell" sub-forum to remind everyone of the danger associated with drinking and typing.

DeVore

Luke, I also like the community element we have going on here and it reminds me greatly of the days of online mulitplayer games and the community and international circuit there.

I wouldnt want to impinge on that at all, I think we either move the whole forum (not a good idea but possible) or we keep the main discussion here and put some of the flavourful, off-topicness stuff on Antesup.

Its very similar to foot.ie and the soccer forum, we have a general soccer forum for enthusiasts and fans etc, but its not hardcore like foot.ie is, they have built forums for every conceiveable topic and they get the traffic.

There is an element of If You Build It They Will Come, its falicous now to say "we don't have many Omaha threads, so why build an Omaha forum" when if we had said that about Holdem before this forum was created, it wouldnt have been! We used to take the view that we needed a certain interest level before creating forums but the test with the Mustard forum gave us a clue that we could create a forum for anything as we were now big enough as a site to attract enough enthusiasts that it would flourish.

I don't think a second site with forums for more detailed and side-line discussions will effect this forum particularly much as we arent really trying to recreate this forum over there, in fact I've seen what happens to sites that try to compete with Boards and I don't really want to be one of them

This is all off the top of my head, hence I'm throwing it out for discussion. I'd say the Antesup forum here will close when we launch our own so we could have another subforum or two here I guess but I think its pushing the limit of awkwardness when the first page of the forum is taken up with stickies and sub fora

Another thing is that Antesup would most likely ask the existing mods to mod our forum with us to make it all more like one big community. Thats another thought that crossed my mind.

All grist to the mill.

DeV.

kincsem

An off-topic thread is a very good idea. Some want to discuss technalities, others just want a laugh. The Poker forum is becoming a bit spread out but the bad beat thread showed what could be done to organise things. Can I suggest grouping poker into headings and subheadings? How about ....

Playing Locations
Internet poker sites
Irish Casinos / Clubs
European Casinos
USA Casinos
Poker festivals
Home Games
Pub games
Travel & accommodation

Playing Equipment
Computer advice
Computer hardware
Computer software
Tables/Chips/Cards

Play
Hand histories
Strange play
Strategy
Local Results
Internet Results
Types of Poker
Bad Beat/Moan/Venting Thread

People
Humour/Wit
Heros & Rogues
Poker Awards

Media
DVDs
TV programs
Books

We have a good poker forum going. Brilliant analaysis and brilliant pisstakes.

Culchie

kincsem wrote:

An off-topic thread is a very good idea. Some want to discuss technalities, others just want a laugh. The Poker forum is becoming a bit spread out but the bad beat thread showed what could be done to organise things. Can I suggest grouping poker into headings and subheadings? How about ....

Playing Locations
Internet poker sites
Irish Casinos / Clubs
European Casinos
USA Casinos
Poker festivals
Home Games
Pub games
Travel & accommodation

Playing Equipment
Computer advice
Computer hardware
Computer software
Tables/Chips/Cards

Play
Hand histories
Strange play
Strategy
Local Results
Internet Results
Types of Poker
Bad Beat/Moan/Venting Thread

People
Humour/Wit
Heros & Rogues
Poker Awards

Media
DVDs
TV programs
Books

We have a good poker forum going. Brilliant analaysis and brilliant pisstakes.

Post of the month

kincsem

Culchie wrote:

Post of the month

Damn,
I've peaked too early. It's only the 17th of the month.

Scotty #

Hectorjelly wrote:

I get your point here, and maybe Im being lazy - but I like all the posters here and have respect for their opinions and so would be interested in their discussions on other topics. This does not hold for the rest of the boards community. Which is why I think this is a good idea.

I agree. Sometimes something comes up that's not really poker related but you would still like the opinion of the people you are familiar with ie. the poker forum. One of the most discussed threads ever on the poker forum was the Paddy Power billboard campaign which has nothing to do with poker.

Fatboydim

I'd never get anything done if it had all that stuff.

Have you missed anything? - Oh yeah... The porn sub forum and suppliers of wipeable keyboard covers.:D

Doc Farrell

so is it all moving to antes up?

can we rant there on stuff?

o'callagh - :mad:

Tyskie is sold out in O'Briens so i bought Baltika, Lech and Schofferhofer.

where was i....?

oh yeah, can we start ranting yet?

Lafortezza

DeVore wrote:

This is all off the top of my head, hence I'm throwing it out for discussion.

The same motivation that made me write this thread in the first place! (That and lack of sleep and too much caffeine).

Devore wrote:

I'd say the Antesup forum here will close when we launch our own so we could have another subforum or two here I guess but I think its pushing the limit of awkwardness when the first page of the forum is taken up with stickies and sub fora

Another thing is that Antesup would most likely ask the existing mods to mod our forum with us to make it all more like one big community. Thats another thought that crossed my mind.
DeV.

Any ETA on when Antes-up gets its revamp?