Hand History (contains HH)

bohsman

PokerStars Game #30792822: Tournament #15015440, Hold'em No Limit - Match Round IV, Level II (120/240) - 2005/11/16 - 23:35:27 (ET)
Table '15015440 118' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: oscarf (17040 in chips)
Seat 2: icetray87 (6960 in chips)
icetray87: posts small blind 120
oscarf: posts big blind 240
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to oscarf [3h 3s]
icetray87: calls 120
oscarf: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Js Ah]
oscarf: checks
icetray87: checks
*** TURN *** [8d Js Ah] [Ad]
oscarf: bets 480
icetray87: raises 720 to 1200
oscarf: calls 720
*** RIVER *** [8d Js Ah Ad] [4s]
oscarf: checks
icetray87: bets 2160

Im not sure about the way I played this hand up to this point, do you call fold or raise?

Hectorjelly

Well its hard to judge heads up hands in isolation, but his raise on the turn is certainly strange, has he done it before? It seems strange no matter what hand he has, its an odd spot to bluff, but then an ace would be unlikely to raise there as well. If I think hes bluffing then Id call the turn and call the river no matter what drops or how much he bets, as it stands Id fold the turn but I might change that based on previous action. Moving in on the river is appealing because he cant really call without a FH or ace, but I think his range is pretty much nothing/nuts so there isnt much value in it, but it would certainly suck to lose to k4.

Imposter

bohsman wrote:

PokerStars Game #30792822: Tournament #15015440, Hold'em No Limit - Match Round IV, Level II (120/240) - 2005/11/16 - 23:35:27 (ET)
Table '15015440 118' One on One Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: oscarf (17040 in chips)
Seat 2: icetray87 (6960 in chips)
icetray87: posts small blind 120
oscarf: posts big blind 240
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to oscarf [3h 3s]
icetray87: calls 120
oscarf: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Js Ah]
oscarf: checks
icetray87: checks
*** TURN *** [8d Js Ah] [Ad]
oscarf: bets 480
icetray87: raises 720 to 1200
oscarf: calls 720
*** RIVER *** [8d Js Ah Ad] [4s]
oscarf: checks
icetray87: bets 2160

Im not sure about the way I played this hand up to this point, do you call fold or raise?

There's too many crap hands that could be ahead of you and also quite a few biggish hands. You haven't losst much on the hand and you've still twice his stack. So i'd fold and wait for a better spot.

NickyOD

When you called the turn bet you should have expected a tough decision on the river which is why I think you should either reraise the turn or fold. Anyway now that you've called I think you have to fold the river. He could easily still have a piece of this flop or a hand like 55 to beat you. You would need to be ahead close to 45% of the time for calling the river to be right. I doubt he has an ace but he's probably not going to fold if you push anyway unless he has complete air. I've seenplenty of players play second or third pair exactly like this when a second ace hits the board because they assume no one could have one.

Lafortezza

Is JdXd possible?

Hectorjelly

I think flat calling the turn is much better than reraising because when you move in there you are essentially bluffing, unless you expect 22 to call. He will call with hands you beat and fold bluffs, making the bet akin to setting money on fire. Flat calling on the turn and then river is the best way to play if you think hes bluffing.

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

I think flat calling the turn is much better than reraising because when you move in there you are essentially bluffing, unless you expect 22 to call. He will call with hands you beat and fold bluffs, making the bet akin to setting money on fire. Flat calling on the turn and then river is the best way to play if you think hes bluffing.

Of course, but he would need to be bluffing with complete air for that to be the right play. He may think he his bluffing but he probably stil has the best hand.

Which reminds me of a funny hand in Athlone. Flop AAJ35 (I think) Fintan gavin bets half the pot on the river on a pure steal with Q7 and gets called by Q4. The 7 plays and he wins the pot. Nice bet!

Hectorjelly

NickyOD wrote:

Of course, but he would need to be bluffing with complete air for that to be the right play. He may think he his bluffing but he probably stil has the best hand.

I think that there is a good chance of that, which is why I would probably fold the turn.

Daithio

I think I'd fold the turn. There's a chance he's bluffing but if he's prone to doing this then you will definitely find a better spot to pick him off. You have a pretty substantial chip lead so there's no need to be letting him back into it so cheaply. If he's bluffing fair play to him, he won the pot.

Also I don't think I'd bet the turn in the first place, it's too easy a spot for him to come over the top of you when you bet the board pairing. Your bet here is only ever going to get called if you're behind, so there's not much value in it.

Daithio

Oh yeah, I think I might have raised pre flop too.

bohsman

He had been playing aggresively coming over the top a lot
I accidentially played it perfectly, once I called the raise on the turn (It doesnt show on HH but I called for TIME when he raised) I was calling the river. As Daithio says the reraise was the perfect spot for him to come over the top, as hes shortstacked I think he will have bet far earlier with any Ace or Jack, he still came back to beat me though

oscarf: calls 2160
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icetray87: shows [9h 3d] (a pair of Aces)
oscarf: shows [3h 3s] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
oscarf collected 7200 from pot
icetray87 said, "jesus"
icetray87 said, "wat a call"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7200 | Rake 0
Board [8d Js Ah Ad 4s]
Seat 1: oscarf (big blind) showed [3h 3s] and won (7200) with two pair, Aces and Threes
Seat 2: icetray87 (button) (small blind) showed [9h 3d] and lost with a pair of Aces

bohsman

Daithio wrote:

Oh yeah, I think I might have raised pre flop too.

And yes, I should have raised preflop

Hectorjelly

bohsman wrote:

And yes, I should have raised preflop

You played it great. I dont agree with raising preflop though, the stacks are deep and you are out of position with what is destined to be a underpair; so keep the pot small.

Daithio

Nice read Oscar. The reason I might call on the turn is precisely the reason I said, you betting the paired board is a prime place for him to bluff. The reason I wouldn't call is because some of the time you are going to be wrong, other times he may even be bluffing with a better hand, and thirdly because in those pokerstars heads up matches the structure is so slow you can normally wait for a better spot. Nice play all the same.

As regards raising pre flop I nearly always do with any sort of pair heads up regardless of position. I don't know if this is correct or not, but it's just how I play them. I mean two out of every three times you're going to be ahead on the flop, and when you're not you can get them to fold alot of the time. I admit this is harder to do out of position.

The Troll

bohsman wrote:

he still came back to beat me though

Did your computer crash or something? You must've been about 20k to 3k after that hand. What the hell happened?

NickyOD

Raising preflop there is bad. The blinds aren't big enough and 33 is not ahand you either want to just take the blinds with OR inflate the pot with.

BTW NFC!!

bohsman

The Troll wrote:

Did your computer crash or something? You must've been about 20k to 3k after that hand. What the hell happened?

He doubled up with T3 against my AT then got it all in with an openender and hit, after that the blinds got big and it turned into a crapshoot, my 36s ran into QQ.

I very rarely play hands out of position especially heads up but feel I should have raised to keep the pressure on him