digital divide - Ireland at the bottom

eircomtribunal

Disturbing, but not unexpected figures from Eurostat:
Percent of students who had used the Internet at least once in the three months prior to the survey, done in late 2004:

EU25* average (excludes countries where no figures were gathered) 85%

Belgium --

Czech Republic: 32%

Denmark: 96%

Germany: 94%

Estonia: 92%

Greece: 55%

Spain: 90%

France: --

Ireland: 57%

Italy: 74%

Cyprus: 81%

Latvia: 79%

Lithuania: 87%

Luxembourg: 94

Hungary: 87%

Malta: --

Netherlands: 90%

Austria: 93%

Poland: 81%

Portugal: 91%

Slovenia: 86%

Slovakia: 83%

Finland: 97%

Sweden: 96%

United Kingdom: 94%

Bulgaria: 58%

Romania: 51%

Turkey: 53%

Iceland: 100%

Norway: 99%

P.

Sponge Bob

eircomtribunal wrote:

EU25* average (excludes countries where no figures were gathered) 85%
Greece: 55%
Ireland: 57%
Bulgaria: 58%
Romania: 51%
Turkey: 53%

We are performing badly compared to our peer group in the Digital world.

I was so proud of our:p staying ahead of Greece for as long as we did but it seems that our advantage is narrowing against our eastern rivals. Bulgaria is now ahead, even the Turks and Romanians are catching up.

We should not try to compare ourselves any more to first worlders like Estonia 92% and Portugal 91% , its all about staying ahead of Greece and will be as long as line rental with entry level BB packages are the most expensive in the EU and are somehow expected to work over the worst lines .

Solair

I would question the accuracy of that survey. I simply don't believe that only 57% of Irish students used the internet in 2004. It doesn't make sense and is not at all reflective of what I would observe in several 3rd level institutions.

It just doesn't add up at all.

The only way that would make sense is if it includes primary school.

Beware of the fact that Irish market researchers have been known to produce some of the most flawed and unrepresentative data known to man. Sample sizes are often ridiculously small and research is often carried out very unprofessionally (often by students for cash).
This has come up as an issue for companies trying to get accurate data for marketing purposes here.

The quality of data that comes out of the UK is vastly superiour and more accurate. Basically, market research as a concept here isn't very well developed.

A level of usage THAT much lower than the UK in Ireland in the student population just doesn't make any sense. I'd like to see how the data was sourced and what the methodology was.

paulm17781

Back when I was in college (2 years ago ) It was generally diffilcult to get a pc. Those of us with labs would go there but the arts students etc. had to queue. If it is 57% of third level then it is because the other 43% couldn't get a pc.

Solair

There is something seriously wrong with the internet market in Ireland though. There are relatively few services aimed at the Irish market. This is partly because we're mistakenly assumed to be part of the UK market (until you try to pay with your Laser card or they discover you don't have a UK post code and won't process your transaction or whack insanely steep delivery charges onto orders)

Also the fact that we still have relatively poor access to payment cards, although this situtation is improving. The government levy on credit cards, the lack of an internationally workable debit card scheme (laser being ireland-only) and the insanely strict policies that the banks have traditionally applied to getting access to a debit or credit card haven't helped either.

The advent of 3V virtual visa cards, AIB and a couple of other banks doing Laser-Maestro cobranded cards etc should mean that many people who don't hold a credit card will be able, for the first time, to get access to online retailers.

On the Maestro thing... many UK sites have simply replaced the term Switch with Maestro while actually still refusing anything that's not a UK issued masetro (i.e. switch) card. This would seem to go against the whole concept of what Maestro is! i.e. an international debit card system.

paulm17781

Switch is now Meastro, laser is also meant to be. I would contact the sellers who do not except Laser (Maestro) and point out that changing a label does not mean they accept the card. I would imagine that the card number will become more standardised in the future though.

cgarvey

paulm17781 wrote:

Switch is now Meastro, laser is also meant to be. I would contact the sellers who do not except Laser (Maestro) and point out that changing a label does not mean they accept the card. I would imagine that the card number will become more standardised in the future though.

Where does it say Laser is affiliated with Maestro? Granted most Laser/ATM combo cards are affiliated with Cirrus or Maestro, I've not heard/seen anything to suggest Laser is affiliated with Maestro.

paulm17781

cgarvey wrote:

Where does it say Laser is affiliated with Maestro? Granted most Laser/ATM combo cards are affiliated with Cirrus or Maestro, I've not heard/seen anything to suggest Laser is affiliated with Maestro.

I used to work for Creidt Card in a Large Irish bank. Laser being phased out, Maestro being phased in.

eircomtribunal

Solair wrote:

I would question the accuracy of that survey. I simply don't believe that only 57% of Irish students used the internet in 2004. It doesn't make sense and is not at all reflective of what I would observe in several 3rd level institutions.

Here's the link to the full study

The student comparison in the eurostat press release is taken from "table 2".

A quote from the methodological notes:
Survey period: in general, the second quarter of 2004 (SK: January 2005).
Sample size: 141 219 households and 204 029 individuals in all respondent countries were surveyed.
Scope (individuals): individuals in the 16 to 74 age group;

I can not vouch for the validity of the study; older eurostat surveys were often horribly wrong for Ireland (giving absolutely unrealistically high Internet penetration figures for example, which have been proven to be wrong). I am told that they have improved and adopted new procedures.

But whatever the accuracy: It is in any case another indicator to show how far back we have fallen and could be used in pressing the DCMNR for serious policies.
P.

clearz

Solair wrote:

I would question the accuracy of that survey. I simply don't believe that only 57% of Irish students used the internet in 2004. It doesn't make sense and is not at all reflective of what I would observe in several 3rd level institutions.

It just doesn't add up at all.

The only way that would make sense is if it includes primary school.

Beware of the fact that Irish market researchers have been known to produce some of the most flawed and unrepresentative data known to man. Sample sizes are often ridiculously small and research is often carried out very unprofessionally (often by students for cash).
This has come up as an issue for companies trying to get accurate data for marketing purposes here.

The quality of data that comes out of the UK is vastly superiour and more accurate. Basically, market research as a concept here isn't very well developed.

A level of usage THAT much lower than the UK in Ireland in the student population just doesn't make any sense. I'd like to see how the data was sourced and what the methodology was.

I agree totally with Solair. I was a full time student in 2004 and to say that only 57% of us used the Internet is just wrong. In my college the number would be closer to the 99-100% mark for Internet usage once in 3 months and I presume this would be the same in other 3rd level Institutes. It just dosent make sence.

AndrewMc

clearz wrote:

I agree totally with Solair. I was a full time student in 2004 and to say that only 57% of us used the Internet is just wrong. In my college the number would be closer to the 99-100% mark for Internet usage once in 3 months and I presume this would be the same in other 3rd level Institutes. It just dosent make sence.

The report describes students as "aged 16 or more in school or university". Is it possible that those in school (rather than university) account for the large amount with no Internet usage?

clearz

AndrewMc wrote:

The report describes students as "aged 16 or more in school or university". Is it possible that those in school (rather than university) account for the large amount with no Internet usage?

Yes it would most definitely be the second level students that lowers that figure but I still believe it to be way off. As for third level its impossible to avoid the net. Even if you diddnt use the Internet for research which everybody does you are required to type up all documentation on computers. And all college computers are connected to the net so ppl will go for a quick surf when all that typing gets boring. And lectures contact students using email. And how do you check your emails. Thats right the Internet.

If that figure is correct they really must have picked schools in disadvanaged areas.

eircomtribunal

clearz wrote:

If that figure is correct they really must have picked schools in disadvanaged areas.

Look up the methodology of the report. Contact the makers... From what I gather it's a clean report – no comparison to some cheap on-the-fly surveys.

Have a look at table 2 in the full report I've linked to above:
It is not only Irish "students" (not "third level students") that fare badly,
For example individuals aged 16 -24: Ireland is at 44%, EC average is 75%; only Greece, Romania and Bulgaria and Turkey are lower.

P.