Shannon Stopover to be fully phased out

Flukey

RTE News wrote:

The Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen, has signed an agreement with the US Secretary of Transport, Norman Mineta, which will see the phasing out of the Shannon stopover by April 2008.

The stopover will go under an open skies agreement between the EU and the US due to be finalised next week.

The transition period will begin in November of next year; during that time the number of flights having to stop in Shannon will be reduced to one in four on any scheduled route.


Also three new US destinations will be made available to Aer Lingus. The stopover will be lifted from all cargo flights from the outset of the transition period.

The minister made the announcement in New York where he is meeting officials from the city's mass transit authority.

About time too. Finally Shannon Airport can learn to stand on its own feet and we may be able to see flights going into other airports, as well as the new routes that Ireland will gain. Everyone's a winner.

Flukey

It's hardly been announced andwe are already getting the bull about the way the whole west of Ireland is going to lose out. The way they portray it you'd think that a restaurant in Clifden or a hotel in Killarney is benefitting from someone sitting on the tarmac in Shannon. If anything, this could benefit the west as there will now be the possibility of flights to go into the other airports in the region such as Cork and Knock. If people want to visit the south and west they still will, but someone sitting on a plane in Shannon airport doesn't benefit the west.

ishmael whale

This change in status is long heralded and long overdue. Its great to see it finally going, but disheartening to see the Irish Government wasting its political capital in Washington by lobbying for a transition period.

The only reason we are finally seeing the end of the stopover is because of international developments outside of our control.

Hagar

My oh my, where will Gi Joe get his duty free ammo...:mad:

silverside

about time too.

will this have any influence on the amount of flights into dublin - by AA/aer lingus / anybody else - what do y'all think?

parsi

Flukey wrote:

About time too. Finally Shannon Airport can learn to stand on its own feet and we may be able to see flights going into other airports, as well as the new routes that Ireland will gain. Everyone's a winner.

those of us in the wesht beneiftted from the tourists who only wanted to go to Shannon.

btw Knock can handle a trans-atlantic jumbo but Cork cant

egan007

parsi wrote:

those of us in the wesht beneiftted from the tourists who only wanted to go to Shannon.

btw Knock can handle a trans-atlantic jumbo but Cork cant

Those of us in the wesht should get of our asses and do something about the state of it rather than looking to Dublin for support.
Q. Why not form a partnership between the western CoCo's get a good management team and develop industial hubs and infrastructure.

A. Because the people don't want industrial hubs and infrasctucture they want it the way it is but they also want jobs for everyone and good roads.

Similar to wanting cake and being able to eat it......

-i am from the whest

Sarsfield

parsi wrote:

those of us in the wesht beneiftted from the tourists who only wanted to go to Shannon.

btw Knock can handle a trans-atlantic jumbo but Cork cant

Cork can handle trans-Atlantic flights. Not 747s maybe, but 757s definitely and A330s too as far as I know.

parsi

egan007 wrote:

Those of us in the wesht should get of our asses and do something about the state of it rather than looking to Dublin for support.
Q. Why not form a partnership between the western CoCo's get a good management team and develop industial hubs and infrastructure.

A. Because the people don't want industrial hubs and infrasctucture they want it the way it is but they also want jobs for everyone and good roads.

Similar to wanting cake and being able to eat it......

-i am from the whest

No you're not - it's spelt wesht !

dowlingm

Coincidentally, Canadian Transport Minister Jean Lapierre was in Mineta's office signing an open skies deal today also. Let's hope he and Cullen did some business too, since there are ZERO direct flights between Canada and Ireland between October and April.

Air Transat was given rights to fly scheduled service to Ireland in 2004 along with several other countries - it took up the other rights but delayed Irish services because of the stopover.

Sarsfield

Allegedly EI took ACN/PCN (runway/apron strength) readings of ORK some time ago. However, the dire state of Cork navigation aids (Cat 2, and only when they aren't out of service) will mean frequent diversionary visits to Shannon and Dublin for Cork bound passengers.

Maskhadov

i think it was holding Shannon back. Any farmer in Australia will tell you that the grants they got from the government were holding them back, its like you only produce for that amount.

Similarly I think Shannon will go on and get new routes into America and get far more passengers and tourists in. Who knows they could even get some slots on the continent and act as a mini hub.

dowlingm

parsi

don't think Cork are going to be worried about Knock jumbos when 747s don't serve Dublin (from US) at the moment...

Our man in Havana

All the EI flights to LAX never used Shannon? I could be wrong?

Flukey

parsi wrote:

those of us in the wesht beneiftted from the tourists who only wanted to go to Shannon.

btw Knock can handle a trans-atlantic jumbo but Cork cant

Flights can still go to Shannon, and as I said those that want to visit the west still can, so nothing will change. Those sitting in the plane waiting for it to go on never benefitted the west. As for Cork, well it is up to it to upgrade its facilities and get some of this business.

SeanW

ishmael whale wrote:

This change in status is long heralded and long overdue. Its great to see it finally going, but disheartening to see the Irish Government wasting its political capital in Washington by lobbying for a transition period.

The only reason we are finally seeing the end of the stopover is because of international developments outside of our control.

At least - like the blasted groceries order - it IS going.

PoolDude

They solely talk about EI taking up the 3 new routes next November. Two questions:

1. Does this not also open up additional routes for other carriers, e.g. US airlines?

2. What routes are they likely to opt for, a central & western location would be good. San Fran, Houston & Seattle?

MorningStar

Flukey wrote:

About time too. Finally Shannon Airport can learn to stand on its own feet and we may be able to see flights going into other airports, as well as the new routes that Ireland will gain. Everyone's a winner.

I don't see that happening considering the debt from Shannon and Cork were kindly given to the Dublin Airport Authority.

Bluetonic

PoolDude wrote:

2. What routes are they likely to opt for, a central & western location would be good. San Fran, Houston & Seattle?

13 November 2005 By Laura Noonan
Aer Lingus is considering launching new routes to San Francisco, Miami and Dallas from November 2006, as a result of an open skies deal signed by Ireland and the US last Friday.

United Airlines is also keen to enter the Irish market, and Continental Airlines is considering launching routes from Ireland to eight US destinations, The Sunday Business Post has learned.

Friday's deal eases Ireland into an Open Skies aviation agreement with the US, which will eventually see the end of all trans-Atlantic route restrictions.

The main element to the deal is the phasing out of the Shannon stopover - which requires many trans-Atlantic flights going through Ireland to touchdown at Shannon - by April 2008. The deal also offers Aer Lingus its choice of three new US routes from November 2006.

Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion welcomed the deal as a “major benefit'‘ for his airline. But a source close to the company said it would prove a “double-edged sword. On one hand they will have more opportunities,” said the source, “but on the other hand they will face much more competition.”

The deal has also concentrated the airline's mind on future flotation. In order to run the new routes, Aer Lingus will need to secure at least one new long-haul aircraft, as its six-strong long-haul fleet is fully utilised.

Mannion has said the airline can source a number of new planes without raising additional finance through privatisation. But in the longer term, to take advantage of a full Open Skies agreement, the airline will need to raise a significant amount of capital to buy more planes.

Dublin Airport also stands to benefit from the deal, because it can now offer direct flights to the US. A spokesman for the airport said the decision presented “both challenges and opportunities'‘ for the airport. While the deal will bring the airport more customers, it is already struggling with congestion problems.

The Irish deal will form part of an EU/US Open Skies agreement, which is expected to be signed next week.

“The commission has always said it understands the sensitivity of the Shannon stopover in view of an open sky deal between the EU and the US,” said Stefaan de Rynck, the transport spokesman for the European Commission.

“We can certainly examine the need for transition periods for a very specific situation, such as Shannon, in the context of a bilateral EU-US agreement.”

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqid=9672-qqqx=1.asp

BuffyBot

United, Delta, AA and Continental will all be eyeing up the potential for new routes as they're desperate to find new long haul destinations from the US at the moment.

PoolDude

Seattle would be great, there's enough people going to Boeing and Microsoft alone!
Plus it gives easy access to Oregon and Vancouver.

Victor

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=7068&lang=ENG&loc=1850

Cullen Secures Deal With U.S. On Shannon
11 November 2005

"Immediate Access to three new destinations in US for Aer Lingus during transition period"

Transport Minister, Martin Cullen, T.D., announced today (Friday, 11th November 2005) that he has secured a special agreement with the US on Shannon in the context of EU-US negotiations on Open Skies. Ireland is the only EU country to secure transitional arrangements in the proposed EU-US agreement.

Intensive discussions over the past 12 months culminated in a series of meetings in Washington this week. Minister Cullen met with the US Secretary for Transportation Norman Mineta, with a view to securing an appropriate transitional arrangement for Ireland, in particular to facilitate Shannon airport in adjusting to an EU-US Open Skies regime.

During his meeting with US Secretary Mineta, Minister Cullen insisted that a transitional arrangement must be folded into an EU-US Open Skies Agreement, which will be the subject of intensive negotiations during the final round of talks during the week of 14 18 November in Washington.

Minister Cullen said: "I made it clear that Ireland supported an EU-US agreement, but that this support was contingent on achieving an appropriate transitional arrangement for Shannon airport. I emphasised the importance of a good transition for Shannon, and placed this in the context of wider Ireland-US relations. I impressed on Secretary Mineta the need to conclude on this issue before the EU-US aviation talks next week."

Secretary Mineta expressed the US's strong desire to secure an EU-US agreement, and its disappointment at the long delay in bringing the negotiations to the current stage. The US's clear preference was for no further transitional period for Shannon.

However, after intensive negotiations, the following agreement was reached:

No change in the Shannon stop arrangements for a further 12 months until November, 2006.

Transitional period commencing Winter season (November) 2006, and finishing beginning of the Summer season (April) 2008.

During the transition period, the ratio of Dublin/Shannon flights will move from 1:1 to 3:1, so that for every one flight to or from Shannon, a carrier can provide three flights to or from Dublin. This ratio can be averaged out over the period of the transition.

Irish airlines will have access to three additional destinations in the US from November 2006, over and above the four destinations currently being served.

These additional 3 points will be nominated by the Irish authorities, and we have flexibility to change those cities during the transitional period.

It was also agreed that there would be no restriction on codesharing into Ireland via points in the EU (this will facilitate Aer Lingus and American Airlines codesharing from Heathrow into Dublin).

Cargo only services will not be subject to any Shannon stop requirement from November 2006.


Full open skies between Ireland and the US from April 2008 in the context of an EU-US Agreement.

Minister Cullen sought and obtained assurances from Aer Lingus that, in the context of a level playing field between the airline and its competitors, it will maintain the current level of transatlantic traffic (circa 400,000 passengers a year) with regular year round scheduled services between Shannon and Boston and New York.

Minister Cullen proposes to prepare an economic and tourism development plan in consultation with his colleagues Ministers for Arts, Sport and Tourism and Enterprise Trade and Employment,
to ensure that Shannon Airport sustains and grows transatlantic air services.

Already the plans announced as part of Transport 21 will greatly enhance the infrastructure of the Shannon region and broaden the catchment area of the airport through the completion of the Dublin to Limerick motorway, the building of the Atlantic Road Corridor and the re-opening of the Western Rail corridor. The feasibility study of the Shannon rail link is currently examining linking Shannon Airport to both Limerick and Galway cities by rail.

Minister Cullen concluded "This was a good deal, hard-won, which gives Shannon a good opportunity to prepare for the arrival of Open Skies. It also provides Aer Lingus with an opportunity to fly to 3 new destinations in the US from 2006. This will enable the company to develop its transatlantic route structure in the run up to Open Skies, open new markets for Irish tourism, offer greater choice to consumers and help grow jobs in Ireland".

The final round of EU-US negotiations begins on Monday 14 November, 2005 in Washington.

ENDS

dowlingm

oddly enough, the US Dept of Transportation website (dot.gov) makes no mention of Cullen whatsoever. It DOES mention a US-Canada agreement signed the same day.

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1119/air.html

US & EU agreement over 'open skies'
19 November 2005 15:25

Negotiators from the US and the European Union say they have reached agreement to allow their airlines to fly unrestricted routes across the Atlantic.

It is a breakthrough in almost a decade of efforts to produce what is called an 'open skies' deal which could lead to cheaper air travel.

The deal still requires the approval of the US and the 25 EU member states.

Currently, flights between the US and EU are restricted by a number of deals that have been negotiated by individual governments.

During preliminary negotiations last week, Ireland and the United States reached agreement on the phasing out of the Shannon stopover by April 2008.