[Article] Enfield/Kinnegad bypass tolls to be highest in country

Tom Dunne

From www.unison.ie/meath_cronicle:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial]E2.40 car journey likely to become E2.50 by the new year

John Donohoe
MOTORISTS using the new M4 motorway, due to open next month, will be paying the highest tolls in the country.
The toll fee for an ordinary car travelling on the motorway, which will bypass Enfield, Kilcock and Kinnegad, and which is due to open early in December, will be E2.40, prompting Enfield councillor William Carey to predict that people won’t use it.
And the toll fee looks set to rise even further early in 2006 when the National Roads Authority (NRA) carries out a review of toll charges across the country. This is due to a provision which allows toll prices to be increased in line with the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and is due to take effect in January.
While the NRA insists that the prices to be introduced on the opening of the motorway in December are 2005 charges, it has not denied that tolls will rise again under the review.
The planned tolls for the M4 are: motorcycles, E1.30; cars, E2.40; goods vehicles, buses and coaches, E3.70; and larger goods vehicles, E4.90 and E6.00.
For somebody commuting to work in Dublin, this would see a cost of E25 a week on top of already exorbitant fuel prices, parking charges in Dublin, and, if travelling to north Dublin, the M50 West Link toll fee, Colr Carey pointed out. [/FONT]

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[/FONT]As a resident of Enfield, I can't believe it. I moan about paying 1.80 on the M50 - there is no way people are going to pay 2.40 every day just to bypass Enfield and Kinnegad.

So much for my dream of getting home on a Friday in less than an hour.

Bluetonic

tom dunne wrote:

there is no way people are going to pay 2.40 every day just to bypass Enfield and Kinnegad.

I'm sure they will.

Archeron

Bluetonic wrote:

I'm sure they will.

I'm fairly sure they wont. Look at the amount of HGVs that still clog up Drogheda. I personally go a very very very weird way to go home just to avoid paying €1.80 on the Westlink. Well, it was €1.80 but seeing as i drive a peugeot car/van, they now want €3.10 Pay an extra €1395 a year for the privelege of getting to work and home ever so slightly quicker? I DONT THINK SO!! these roads should be free, but i suppose thats a different conversation......

Imposter

They need a vignette system like they have here in Austria for motorways in Ireland. Here, a yearly Vignette costs just about 70€, a 2 month one about 20€ and a 2 week one about 10€. Maybe make the prices a little higher for Ireland but don't allow people drive on any motorway without one.

There are a few motorways that are tolled additionally to this here but they are generally long tunnels or motorways built on stilts (I'm sure there's a name for that!) but neither of them should be an issue for ireland. Any bridges that are needed are pretty short.

Ringfence that money for future motorway building and everyone's happy. Of course it would also have to be policed but that's not that difficult.

D'Peoples Voice

tom dunne wrote:

From www.unison.ie/meath_cronicle:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial]

[/FONT]As a resident of Enfield, I can't believe it. I moan about paying 1.80 on the M50 - there is no way people are going to pay 2.40 every day just to bypass Enfield and Kinnegad.

So much for my dream of getting home on a Friday in less than an hour.

Is it comparable to the M50 on a € per Km basis?
I think it's lazy journalism to just say the toll is €2.40 so it's the most expensive road toll.
It could be like saying that a toyota corolla is more expensive than a Daewoo Matiz, so don't buy a toyota corolla! Any journalist worth his salt, would calculate the € per km, THEN say which is the more expensive. that should be the benchmark comparison across the EU. How does this ratio compare to our European neighbours?

Seth Brundle

tom dunne wrote:

there is no way people are going to pay 2.40 every day just to bypass Enfield and Kinnegad.

Won't they be paying €4.80 every day? Or if the increase goes ahead then €5 per day!

I reckon they should bump the price up to €3, so that like the M50 it will cover the cost of future widening of the motorway!

Salmon

Imposter wrote:

Ringfence that money for future motorway building and everyone's happy. Of course it would also have to be policed but that's not that difficult.

Like the suggestion, but I think you are forgetting that this is ireland, and ringfencing a fund for future motorway projects is totally unpoliceable in this country! :rolleyes:

Tom Dunne

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

Is it comparable to the M50 on a € per Km basis?
I think it's lazy journalism to just say the toll is €2.40 so it's the most expensive road toll.

It's approx. 49Km from Kinnegad to Lucan (if you include the current M4 from Kilcock to Lucan).

I don't agree that it should be compared on a per Km basis. What if I want to go from Enfield to Maynooth? I would still have to pay the €2.40, even though I only went one third of the distance.

Seth Brundle

Will the toll represent payment for using the M4 or will it be a charge for using a specific section as with the M50 and M1?

Zaph0d

Will it be much easier to bypass this motorway than to bypass the westlink bridge? Do you just stay on the old N4?

It's funny because the last Enfield bypass didn't work either.

Tom Dunne

Zaph0d wrote:

Will it be much easier to bypass this motorway than to bypass the westlink bridge? Do you just stay on the old N4?

Yes, just slip off at Kilcock (as you have to now) and stay on the old N4.

Zaph0d wrote:

It's funny because the last Enfield bypass didn't work either.

So true.

Zaph0d

I guess the toll operator has the right to decrease the toll if he thinks that will increase revenue.

Idbatterim

D'Peoples Voice is absolutely right. Yeah E2.40 sounds like alot, but on a cost per km basis it definetly the cheapest in the country. Its a 39 km motorway! but yeah im not sure if everyone will use it, because its all well and good saying its the cheapest per km in the country and we may be be getting good value, but it is E2.40 one way add that up over a period, it aint cheap! And the point about lazy journalism is absolutely true, wow its the most expensive toll in the country and its 4 times longer than any other stretch and probably a bit less than double the price! if they want rip off per km basis why dont hey look at the east and westlink bridges?! whatever the contractors behind the m4 stretch paid, you can be damn sure it wasnt fifteen million euro for the entire project, and then fleece us for decaades!

Seth Brundle

Going back to my question above about whether the toll was for using the entire road or a stretch of it - IIRC the toll on the M50 is taken for using the private stretch (the bridge and the roadway up to the n3 junction) and a similar scheme operates on the M1
factor that into your per-Km calculations

Flukey

Anything over €0.00 is too high a toll to pay, given all the other things that drivers have to pay. I don't drive myself, so I've no axe to grind and I can look at this from a neutral perspective.

silverside

when you think of what you are paying to run a car anyway if you are driving kinnegad-dublin every day, 20 euro a week is not that much in the big scheme of things especially given all the time you are saving.
think of what you are saving in rent and beer money by not living in dublin.

Tom Dunne

That's a very simplistic view of things, Silverside.

We pay up to 4.50 Euro for pints here out in the sticks, food tends to be more expensive due to the lack of large supermarkets. And all these "little" costs add up, including tolls and petrol.

murphaph

The only answer is densification of Dublin to european norms and for people to give up the notion of the 3 bed semi in suburbia (that's coming from the not so proud owner of a 3 bed semi in suburbia).

D'Peoples Voice

murphaph wrote:

The only answer is densification of Dublin to european norms and for people to give up the notion of the 3 bed semi in suburbia (that's coming from the not so proud owner of a 3 bed semi in suburbia).

Mate, I don't think any sane person could disagree with that. (of course the stupid argument I've had thrown at me when I say simialr to yourself, is "look at Ballymun, Finglas ,Ballyfermot, north innner city, they are all built up areas, and look what happened there!" I just give up rather than start explaining that there are a million other factors at play in those cases. Built up areas do not always have to become ghettos!! Look at Clonmel!)

Idbatterim wrote:

If they want rip off per km basis why dont hey look at the east and westlink bridges?

Spot on, the taxpayer is subsidising the cost of all the roads around the East Link.This is what I have an issue with.There should be a maximum level set on € per km(regardsless if one's a bridge or as opposed to open road)
At least for the new m4(Kinegad), the N8(Fermoy-when opened), the M1(Dundalk), I feel I'm getting something that is vaguely worth the cost, in terms of petrol saved.
As the title of this thread is "Enfield/Kinnegad bypass tolls to be highest in country", I don't wish though to start talking about other toll roads though.

In absolute terms, that is, ignoring other toll roads, EUR 2.40 is a lot, you could go to the cinema on your own for the cost of only 3 journeys approx on the toll road, or indeed go with your partner for the cost of only 6 journeys approx on the toll road.

Sponge Bob

Idbatterim wrote:

D'Peoples Voice is absolutely right. Yeah E2.40 sounds like alot, but on a cost per km basis it definetly the cheapest in the country. Its a 39 km motorway! but yeah im not sure if everyone will use it, because its all well and good saying its the cheapest per km in the country and we may be be getting good value, but it is E2.40 one way add that up over a period, it aint cheap!

There will be another toll past Ballinasloe in 2008 .

murphaph

To be honest, two tolls between Dublin & Galway isn't too bad. There'll be 2 between Dublin and Cork too and at least 1, maybe 2 between Dublin and Limerick. It'll be 2 to Waterford I'll bet too. No tolls on the N11 interestingly, so don't be surprised if it gets used in place of the M9 to east county Waterford.

Long distance commuting is bad news in general. Sh!tty quality of life sat in a car for a tenth of your waking life, missing out valuable family time etc.

Nice apartments in our cities with high quality public parks within easy reach, that's the key-allow us to live and work in the same city and leave the motorways for the 'weekend away' or whatever, not the daily commute.

The problem today is that even apartments in or near the city are not affordable for many. Hopefully supply will increase. I'd love to see all those terraced houses with gardens in Drumcondra/Ranelagh etc. wiped from the face of the earth and replaced with medium-high density 4/5 storey apartment blocks and new schools and parks. The city is well capable of densifying 10 fold.

Here's hoping anyway.

dubhthach

murphaph wrote:

To be honest, two tolls between Dublin & Galway isn't too bad. There'll be 2 between Dublin and Cork too and at least 1, maybe 2 between Dublin and Limerick. It'll be 2 to Waterford I'll bet too. No tolls on the N11 interestingly, so don't be surprised if it gets used in place of the M9 to east county Waterford.

They are also talking about putting a toll on the outer galway bypass. If that's the case anyone going from west of the corrib (half of galway city) to dublin by motorway will have to pay 3 tolls.

The toll from galway to ballinasloe with be at Cappletaggle. As the slip road connecting the "Galway to ballinasloe motorway" with the loughrea bypass is before this you will be able to stay on dual carriageway then cut down to Loughrea onto old N6 and get back onto the dual carriageway at Aughrim.

murphaph

dubhthach wrote:

The toll from galway to ballinasloe with be at Cappletaggle. As the slip road connecting the "Galway to ballinasloe motorway" with the loughrea bypass is before this you will be able to stay on dual carriageway then cut down to Loughrea onto old N6 and get back onto the dual carriageway at Aughrim.

Hmmm, I'd be surprised if there weren't toll booths planned for the on and off slips like the M1.

Victor

http://www.nra.ie/News/NewsAnnouncements/htmltext,1913,en.html

Bluetonic

The toll will be free if motorist can not get from a point 30m before the barrier to a point 5 meters after the barrier in 25 seconds or less.

There are 9 lanes in each direction and unlike the westlink there will be two electronic lanes in each direction with the barrier remaining up at all times unless it detects a car without the electronic pass.

mackerski

Bluetonic wrote:

The toll will be free if motorist can not get from a point 30m before the barrier to a point 5 meters after the barrier in 25 seconds or less.

I foresee a new fashion in spending ages fumbling for the right change in the hope that a queue will build behind you, forcing the operators to open the gates.

Dermot

penexpers

I don't understand why people have a such a grudge against paying tolls over here when it's the norm on the continent.

Hotblack Desiato

On the continent it's the norm to have good quality free alternative routes.

In France they make the urban bypasses free and toll the inter-urban motorways - contrast that with the 'logic' of the M50 toll.

Basically the Irish motorist is hammered every which way. The only way to end road tolling is to have a total boycott of toll roads. Won't happen, and they know it.

Hotblack Desiato

mackerski wrote:

I foresee a new fashion in spending ages fumbling for the right change in the hope that a queue will build behind you

If you're a motorcyclist, you've no choice but to hold everyone up behind you as you take off gloves and fumble for change with cold fingers... all tolls for motorcycles should be abolished (as on most UK toll roads) as they create no congestion and cause minimal wear to the road surface. Costs more to collect than it's worth, but try telling that to the eejits in NTR.

Maskhadov

The proposed N6 Galway to East Ballinasloe scheme is a high quality dual carriageway extending from Doughiska in
the East of Galway city to Tulrush east of Ballinasloe. It consists of 55.80 kilometres of dual carriageway, a 7 kilometre link
road from Carrowkeel to Loughrea and approximately 23 kilometres of side roads. There are 4 grade separated junctions,
36 bridges and a Toll Plaza located at Cappataggle.

I got that from the .pdf file. It says that the Galway - Dublin dual carriageway/motorway is expected to be completed in 2009. Is that the expected date ? What about the N6 Galway to East
Ballinasloe bit, when is it expected to be completed ?

mysterious

the current traffic ranges from minimum of 21,000 to 25,000 vehicles a day over the existing road , you mean to say when the Motorway opens it will be 18,000 , doubt that, you might get a few hundred that will skip the tolls, But at the end of the day fom Mc neads bridge to Lucan will be one of the best roads in the country to date. I'd say traffic and that road will hit close 27,000 after its second year opened...

Maskhadov

Thats already 1/2 the capacity of a motorway within two years :eek:

dubhthach

Maskhadov wrote:

I got that from the .pdf file. It says that the Galway - Dublin dual carriageway/motorway is expected to be completed in 2009. Is that the expected date ? What about the N6 Galway to East
Ballinasloe bit, when is it expected to be completed ?

From what i've heard 2010 is the expected date. They've finished the basic archaelogy on the Galway-Ballinasloe section (the NRA archaelogists are in the office downstairs from me).