Choosing Wooden Windows

GG66

I building a new house and need to decide on what timber to use and get some quotes. Have to admit i havent looked at any options yet.

I'd prefer a derker wood or dark stained.

I like the look of iroko timber but I'm concious that its a tropical hardwood so it may not be the most environmentally friendly option. Someon mentioned Red Deal as a native hardwood and teh stain it darker.

Anyone got any suggestions about choosing timber windows, recommend any supplier to get started with?

Thanks in advance,

kadman

Hi GG66,

Teak would be an excellent choice for windows. It is an extremely durable wood due to the high content of its own natural oils, which give it its durable qualities.

Mahogany would also be an option, though not as durable as teak.

If being environmentally friendly is an issue for you, then make sure your supplier gets his timber stocks, from well managed sustainable forests, that encourage a re-planting philosophy.

Red deal would be at the low end of my choices due to its poor durability. It would have to be vac / vac treated with preservatives to improve its durability, before final varnishing / finishing.

The best quality red deal in the country is probably Rational windows. This is scandinavian in origin, and is regarded as the best.

Incidentally red deal is a softwood, merchant quality is more than likely European. Native deal is of extremely low quality, and is more suitable for general building construction than joinery.

Hope this helps,

kadman

GG66

Thanks for the excellent feedback. From what I gather Iroko is from west africa and is often used as a teak substitute due to similarities. Have you any exeperience of iroko?

Also I realise Teak won't be cheap so if I'm looking to save money may go for something cheaper. Someone suggested native pine but from what I hear most Irish timber isn't of great quality. What do you think?

kadman

GG66 wrote:

Thanks for the excellent feedback. From what I gather Iroko is from west africa and is often used as a teak substitute due to similarities. Have you any exeperience of iroko?

Also I realise Teak won't be cheap so if I'm looking to save money may go for something cheaper. Someone suggested native pine but from what I hear most Irish timber isn't of great quality. What do you think?

It would be false economy to use a poor grade material now, as you would probably need to replace it in years to come. Teak or Iroko is a lifelong job , due to its durability.

It is an excellent substitute for Teak (Tectona Grandis ) , and is extremely strong comparing well with Oak. Has excellent finishing abilities, takes nails and screws well. After machining it is a distinct yellow, but darkens to a golden brown. It is a fairly dense timber at 41 lb per cubic foot. It is used for high class joinery, window frames, stair treads, cills, laboratory benches , and draining boards, due to its high resistance to decay.

It would definitely be my no 1 choice for external joinery. Indeed it is probably the number one choice in joineries nation wide, for all external doors windows ect.

kadman:)

dogg_r_69

kadman wrote:

Teak or Iroko is a lifelong job , due to its durability.

Seconded. As far as I'm concerned it's the only choice

Wertz

Have to agree with teak/iroko.
It's all I ever see on new housing that use external joinery (mainly doors but sometimes windows too).
The great thing about teak is that in the event that you're lazy about keeping it protected, it will not weather as readily as say, oak or a similar indigenous hardwood. I've seen teak doors that saw nothing but rain and sun for 5+ yrs coming up like new with some patience; not many other woods will last like this without absorbing water and starting to rot. Steer clear of irish pine...some of it is barely fit for interior joinery these days...

GG66

I just visited a house yesterday where the windows and doors were Great Western Cedar. They were chosen because they don't need much maintenance.

Anyone any thoughts on this?

Also, my builder just informed me that I would have to pay 2000eu more than what he quoted me for my windows (original quote 15000) if I wanted them pre treated. He said he had quoted originally for untreated windows. Sounds to me like he under budgeted and is trying to pass it on to me.

Is it normal for builders to quote for uintreated windows? I wouldn't have thought so as its not a finished job.

kadman

GG66 wrote:

I just visited a house yesterday where the windows and doors were Great Western Cedar. They were chosen because they don't need much maintenance.

Anyone any thoughts on this?

Also, my builder just informed me that I would have to pay 2000eu more than what he quoted me for my windows (original quote 15000) if I wanted them pre treated. He said he had quoted originally for untreated windows. Sounds to me like he under budgeted and is trying to pass it on to me.

Is it normal for builders to quote for uintreated windows? I wouldn't have thought so as its not a finished job.

Any builder that was willing to sell you untreated pine products, would not be the most professional builders , in my opinion.

Untreated pine windows and doors, would show signs of blue sap stain in a matter of months. No matter how much varnish / finish was applied. 17 k for windows sounds a lot, but of course it depends on the spec and size.

maybe you could post the spec,
kadman

Wertz

You mean like stained before fitting? That' can be done either in the workshop post manafacturing or on-site prior to fitting...the builder isn't really ripping you off as far as I can see; most joinery's will only produce the product and if you didn't specify you wanted them stained then they'll arrive raw...this is in case the owner wishes to paint/varnish/whatever...I'd say 2 grand is a good ballpark figure for the required staining (3 coats + preparation) for a medium sized house.
Two of the coats can be applied on the ground before the frames are installed, but the last one should be applied after the frame is in and glazed...make sure that that is what your builder means by pre-treated otherwise you may just end up with a quick lashing of stain and having to pay the likes of me to come and finish them...

In some cases (usually dooors made from iroko) one coat of stain will be applied to protect the door from "burns" caused by concrete or plaster on a site, but windows are 99% of the time as raw as the day the tree was felled.

GG66

Not sure really how to quote you a spec as such but I'll try this. the house is about 200 SQm, the quote is for for teak. There are about 3 windows about 3ft wide, 4 windows 2ft wide, 2 windows 5ft wide, triangular window shape in apex of roof gable, there's quite a lot of glass including a conservatory style area with floor to celiling glass but slate roof and velux windows (additional to the 15k). Quote also includes doors.

It may be a high quote but he's fine about me getting a cheaper quote and taking any savings off his overall quote if I want. Someone else mentioned it may be high also. Any tips on good suppliers for teak windows? I'm in N/West.

The builder has said that the wondows are treated in the joinery and have a plastic film on them when they arrive for protection. He says all he needs to do is remove the plastic film once all building is finished and that's it.. does that sound right?

Oh yeah, thoughts on great western cedar?

kadman

Doors as well, well the quote may be ok at that. My reference to " treatment of pine " , was relative to the need for vacuum treated preservative, as opposed to pre finishing. They are not the same thing.

As Wertz correctly pointed out , it all depends on what the builder quoted you for. It seems that the description of joinery arriving wrapped in clingfilm, to protect the factory pre finishing sounds correct. But remember, are you receiving items " finished and wrapped in plastic " or PRE finished. Pre finished means they are not entirely protected. They may have a stain, one coat of finish, or both.

And you may after all be calling our friend Wertz, to finish.

kadman

Oh Western Red Cedar...extremely durable, probably more expensive than Teak.

Wertz

GG66 wrote:

Not sure really how to quote you a spec as such but I'll try this. the house is about 200 SQm, the quote is for for teak. There are about 3 windows about 3ft wide, 4 windows 2ft wide, 2 windows 5ft wide, triangular window shape in apex of roof gable, there's quite a lot of glass including a conservatory style area with floor to celiling glass but slate roof and velux windows (additional to the 15k). Quote also includes doors.

It may be a high quote but he's fine about me getting a cheaper quote and taking any savings off his overall quote if I want. Someone else mentioned it may be high also. Any tips on good suppliers for teak windows? I'm in N/West.

The builder has said that the wondows are treated in the joinery and have a plastic film on them when they arrive for protection. He says all he needs to do is remove the plastic film once all building is finished and that's it.. does that sound right?

Oh yeah, thoughts on great western cedar?

Sounds kinda right to me, but then as I'm one of the eejits that treats them, I never really see prefinished stuff (I'm on-site rather than workshop based)....but that method is exactly how they do PVC, so I assume that pre-finished timber would be shrink-wrapped as well.

Ask the builder or the joinery exactly what the treatment entails...teak can look pretty good after 2 coats but 3 (or more) is better; means you won't have to worry about maintenance for a fair while, and that you're getting value for your 2K. The type of window plays a pretty big role in how much they'd cost to treat; lots of leafs or sashes for instance mean a lot of more intricate brushwork and hence time. Also some joineries may dip the wood to stain them...not up to speed on how this works or it's durability; hard to beat brush and sandpaper, I reckon.

Only cedar I've come across is floors...smells lovely

As for to recommend a joinery, not in your particular area, as I'm based in the north east....there are a lot of small joinery workshops out there and prices probably don't vary by that much; where the difference comes in is the profit margin of the builder IMO

GG66

Thanks to you both for teh advice, feel I'm up to speed now, will speak with my builder on Monday.

Might also look into a quote for great western cedar, my friend simply treated it with linseed oil (I think) and he reckons this will be sufficent for a long time, looks well too if a little rustic