Plane/Trainer Heli/Adv Heli

stevenmu

I looked into RC helis a few years ago, they were too expensive at the time (was in college) but I have some cash to spare at the moment so I've been looking at them again the last few days. I'm sure I'll be picking your brains lots in the next few weeks, but for now I have some fairly simple (I think) questions.

I've seen it recommended, both on this forum and other sites, that prospective heli pilots learn to fly a plane first. While this makes sense in some ways, I'd have a bit of experience of experience with flying heli sims (altough not RC based ones) and I'm pretty fond of exterior fly-by views so I think I have a good grasp of the type of coordination needed to fly an RC heli. Then again I'm probably not the first person to think that, and I'm sure many people before me have been left with a smoking hole in the ground 6 inches from their first take-off :v: . So is starting off with a heli completely crazy or is it manageable (I'd of course be trying to get involved with a club and get some instruction too) ?

If it is ok to skip straight to helis, there seem to be different levels, some easier to fly and learn with but less capable, others more capable but harder to fly and learn with. From reading the FAQ mentioned in the stickies, it seems like it would be possible to buy a more advanced heli, but to set it up with the characteristics needed by a beginner. This seems like a good way to save money, compared to buying a dedicated training heli, and then having to upgrade. What do others think ?

Lastly, in terms of radios 6/7 channels seems to be a good bit cheaper than 8/9/10, a good radio is oviously worth the investment, but how many channels are really needed and of use ?

Thanks for any replies

coolwings

stevenmu wrote:

I looked into RC helis a few years ago, they were too expensive at the time (was in college) ....

A lot has changed. You'll get change out of €250 with the small helis now.

stevenmu wrote:

I've seen it recommended, both on this forum and other sites, that prospective heli pilots learn to fly a plane first.....

Not essential if you are starting with the 300 size of leccie helis, like Twister. But if you have glow engine (=heavy + expensive parts) helis in mind, the "learn-to-fly" breakage bill for your heli, is about equal to the value of a full airplane outfit. Later you have to pay the "learn-to-hover" breakage bill which is totally separate.
So it costs the same whichever way you go. Just it is possible to end the learning process with two models, or one, depending on the route you choose.

stevenmu wrote:

... there seem to be different levels, some easier to fly and learn with but less capable, others more capable but harder to fly and learn with. From reading the FAQ mentioned in the stickies, it seems like it would be possible to buy a more advanced heli, but to set it up with the characteristics needed by a beginner.

The small electrics are easy to fly and suitable to learn on. You can fly indoors when it's dark or rainy outside, thus getting your practise time in.
The 30 size glowfuel helis are pricey and twitchy, and cannot really stand up to the winds we get here in Ireland. But the 50-60 sizes, dearer, is also suitable. They can take wind, and are stronger than the smaller glow helis.
If you decide on a 50... try to get a 50 that is built on the 60 chassis, like Starlet 50 (built on a Uni Star 60 chassis). Then you wont have to buy twice if you go up to 60 size later. I say that because many 50s are made on a lengthened 30 chassis, and are "lightweight", thinner & weaker parts, etc.

stevenmu wrote:

...terms of radios 6/7 channels seems to be a good bit cheaper than 8/9/10, a good radio is oviously worth the investment, but how many channels are really needed and of use ?

A 5ch transmitter flies the heli, 7 ch gives you control adjustment in the air/without resorting to screwdrivers before taking off agian. However 8ch can do what 7 can, but with a retractable undercarraige also. I suggest 6 or better 7 at first.

As far as makes is concerned you can expect everybody to say "their make" is the best. It is what happens when people spend so much on it, and haven't flown others. A bit like your fond memories about your first car, even if it was a dog !
My suggestion, if the brochure has more space given to the upgrades or add-ons, than is given to the heli, don't buy it. The add-ons can double the price you based your decision on no problem.
What you need at this stage is to think of the phrase "simple, light, and robust" because you are going to hit the ground with it like with a pick-axe, and it has to survive those episodes and be repairable.
Coolwings
(who has played with Kalt-primitive, Hirobo-too many bell cranks, Raptor-no eccpm, Twister-basic/neat, Starlet-ok but bit big for me, Uni Star-as for Starlet, Nexus-needs too many extra bits - and who currently has a brushless Logo 10)

stevenmu

Thanks, I had kind of discounted leccies with the weather here. Thinking about it again now it could be good compromise to start with a cheap one, then maybe go for a more expensive one before trying a glowfuel. I'm reading up on on dragonflys and Trex's at the moment and they seem like decent little things with some good deals on ebay.

coolwings

You can rely on your breaking a component every 15 minutes of use, until you have maybe 2 hours of flying time in.
You can't know which parts they will be in advance, that depends on your own personal flying difficulites. Not the same for everyone.
So make sure you can get spare parts for the one you buy near to where you live.

If you get one not supported near your home, your heli will be an ornament during all the time it takes to obtain the bits necessary "because of the last bumpy landing". You could say that increasing the complexity (of getting parts & backup trans continent) for an already very complicated machine is a retrograde step, when as a learner you need to be simplifying it as much as possible.

For one example, the lithium poly battery, touted as the best most advanced flies the longest is downright fragile, like as in eggshell fragile. Suits advanced fliers only. And in a beginner's hands usually lasts only up to 6 months. But the web sellers push that variation quite hard, knowing it lasts long enough for them to walk away from the sale with your cash.

The advantage of electric in helis is twofold .... cheap parts .... able to fly indoors when weather is wrong outside due to nighttime .... dark winter evenings ... windy weather ... rain....
Not to say glow engine ones don't have good qualities too, but they are inferior in these aspects.

trudnai

I think the best for a beginner is to spend lots of hours with a simulator, I mean an RC simulator. Flying an RC is somewhat more difficult than a real one as you are standing on the ground and the model is going to move in each direction. As it turns it could trick the pilot which direction is which. I found it quite difficult to get use to hover the heli when it is in sideway. If you could hover the heli and make a very-very slow rotating of 360 degree both directions probably means you could do it with a real model as well so time to practise with a real one. Hovering is the more important as that is the only way to take off and landing. When it start to get some speed the whole feels like if you were flying a 'traditional' plane using both the rudder and the aileron for turning. Practising with an RC simulator could save huge amount of money for you and if you have computer already it is not very expensive to buy one.

syl77

If your buying an indoor/leci version, make sure you have enough space to fly it indoors when learning. An average size room may not be sufficient.
Also, when buying a radio, try find one with out the clicks on the trottle as you may find yourself searching for the right hover height in between the clicks.
Sims are good for getting your head around the control sticks when the heli is in flight.....however, they dont perpare you for things like balancing the blades, setting the trims and expos, all of which are important and that you learn as you go.

Fobia

trudnai wrote:

Practising with an RC simulator could save huge amount of money for you and if you have computer already it is not very expensive to buy one.

The companies that make these simulators have yet to even test my idea of a little counter in the corner of the screen, counting up how much you have to pay for repairs each time you crash. Perhaps a novelty bill at the end of each month..

Revolutionary, no?

coolwings

Fobia wrote:

The companies that make these simulators have yet to even test my idea of a little counter in the corner of the screen, counting up how much you have to pay for repairs each time you crash. Perhaps a novelty bill at the end of each month..

Revolutionary, no?

Excellent idea Fobia
I think electrodes plugged into the sim flyer and high voltage might be necessary to simulate the pain of a biggie !

Fobia

coolwings wrote:

Excellent idea Fobia
I think electrodes plugged into the sim flyer and high voltage might be necessary to simulate the pain of a biggie !

Yes, and bin bags should be included in the box.

We could go somewhere with this coolwings!

stevenmu

Yeah, I can see that a good sim is a must. Just for the fun of it I downloaded FMS and I've been having some fun using a throttle and stick I have lying around. It's not quite the same as using a real controler but I have it setup to do throttle and rudder with my left hand and pitch/roll with my right so it's about as close as I can get untill I get my hands on a real controller.

I think I've found a downside to sims though, while I have had many, many crashes, I've been able to fairly easily get the hang of hovering, nose in hovers, loops, rolls, and even quick inverted hovers. If a real life model behaves just like it does in the sim, then I'm fairly confident I could take off, hover for a while, maybe do a little circle or two, and land safely, but I've a feeling this may be a false sense of security.

syl77

lidl are selling a joypad very similar to the ones used by PS2 (the one with sticks) for about 8 or 9 euro, I heard they work with FMS, only downside is no trim and you need to keep you thumb on the trottle. But hey for under a 10er it aint bad for those thinking of getting into it and have no radio.

stevenmu

It should work with it if windows picks it up as a regular game controller, if it detects both sticks FMS should let you map their axis giving you a 4 channel controller, might have a look for one meself.

coolwings

To compare with the cost of joysticks and other alternatives .....You would be surprised how little it costs to get a RC transmitter, if you are buying it on its own (without receiver, servos ,etc)

We sold a replacement aircraft radio for approx € 40 last week to a guy who had dropped his old one, (just the new handset without nicad / charger / servos / receiver).

2 or 3 channel handsets are very low cost if separated from the other bits.

You would have your trim levers in that case.

trudnai

syl77, could you tell me which Lidl you've seen that controller, becouse I just could not find it in Blanchardstown Shopping Center? Is that in Dublin at all?

syl77

Hey trudnai, A mate of mine bought it in the Lidl in Galway. Try Aldi, they might have something similar.
Coolwings is right thou, you can pick up a seconad hand Tx for as little as 30/40 euros, or even cheaper on ebay.