iStream is killing my Routers!!!!!

CorporalCarrot

Folks

I’m having a problem that in 25 odd years of computer experience, qualifies as the most bizarre and illogical I think I’ve ever encountered. Tweaking my autoexec.bat and config.sys to get my first, non-soundblaster compatible soundard to work on a 286……..installing Linux From Scratch or Gentoo Stage 1 installs had nothing on this. Because all of the problems I have ever encountered had logical solutions where this one makes no sense at all; you see, Eircom iStream is SLOWLY KILLING ALL MY ROUTERS.

Ok so I’m an early broadband adopter (have it for over two years). When I first got it and the Eircon-supplied cayman netopia, I quickly found it inadequate for my needs (I have 3 desktops at home; 1 Win xp, 1 Gentoo Linux and 1 experimental plus a Laptop. I needed a router, preferably with a Wireless Access Point built in.

Enter the Netgear DG724MUK, just such a device. Set up was a breeze, I had the router up and running in minutes with the autodetect, MAC address + WEP restricted wireless going and everything. The router ran a little hot but I had read that that was common with that particular model so didn’t think much of it. And the router ran flawlessly, 24/7/365, serving my network and the laptop wirelessly with no problems.

Until around 6 months ago when all of a sudden I started to experience intermittent loss of sync. But it was weird because I spent a lot of time on the phone with an eircom tech trying to figure it out and while I was seeing loss of sync, he was showing me still connected.

I dug out the old Cayman modem and sure enough, it worked flawlessly. So I’ve eliminated the line and the cabling from the equation  it must be the router and over the following few weeks the problem deteriorated rapidly until eventually I had no sync at all. But I wasn’t really pissed with netgear at this stage because any manufacturer can have one dodgy product.

So I went out to PC World and checked a few of the latest routers out. They had fallen in price dramatically since I bought the first one, and since the Netgear 834 was also DSL2+ compatible (and I was trying to switch to Smart) I decided to take the plunge.

Anyway same setup experience (flawless & simple), much smaller and cooler running router (excellent) and all is happy again. Except this one didn’t last much more than 6 weeks before I started getting connection drops again and gradually it was also unusable. At this point as you can imagine I was cursing Netgear and vowing to rubbish their products at every available opportunity.

Except my next router/wap, a D-Link DSL604+ has experienced the exact same thing (i.e. flawless initial setup and line detection, no problems for an extended period of time but then a gradual deterioration until eventually it was unusable, all the while the original cayman modem working no bother).

So you see my dilemma. There appears to be nothing wrong with the line or any cabling. The original cayman modem is still working fine. I have delved into every conceivable sub menu of the Caymans setup and tried to replicate it in those other routers but it hasn’t done anything (and I knew in my heart of hearts it wouldn’t because that wouldn’t explain why all these products worked initially for an extended period of time, before gradually failing).

I know it sounds weird but the only analogy I can think of is that the bloody routers are catching a disease from the line which leads to their slow decline and death. The Cayman modem seems to have an antidote or immunity however which leaves it unscathed.

Has anyone ever come across anything like this or could suggest my next course of action??

C

Sponge Bob

Electrical instability could explain everything..as could lightning. Your line should be 48v + or - 2v at all times. If it dropped to 40v or spiked to 55v the routers would have to compensate somehow which could wear out components.

Lighning would wear them out even quicker

CorporalCarrot

Bob

That did occur to me but I dismissed it as ridiculous because as I said, in 20+ years of dealing with computers I have never come across a power or voltage related problem and we havent had any lightning strikes .

Having said that, all my stuff is run off some cheapish extension leads. Could it really be this? Why wouldnt the Cayman modem be affected? its purely the dsl sync aspect of the routers that seems to be affected.

Should I get some surge protected ones?

C

CorporalCarrot

Actually, I just dug out behind the desk and they are all surge protected.

kaizersoze

You could get a cheaper wireless access point/router, connect it to the Cayman and let the Cayman perform the modem functions.
I've no idea what might be causing your existing problems but that could be work around for you.
The fact that it's happened to 3 different devices suggests that it's an on site problem rather than a hardware problem.

Sponge Bob

I'll be fair. I suspect its not Eircoms fault at all but you really need to prove that , maybe with a cheap min max multimeter, logging over a long period of time at the socket where eircom enter the house (no further in) .

Routers nowadays have to come in at ultra low pricepoints like USD99 and UKP49 so the components in them are sh1te...to coin a technical term for it .

They may very well be designed to last 13 months , one longer than the warranty period.

Were Eircom proven as the suspect that would change but I do feel you must prove it .

tomk

Throughout your unfortunate story, you say that the Netopia works flawlessly all the time, but you haven't actually used it for the same kind of extended periods as the others, if I'm reading you right - a brief period when you were first connected, quickly superceded by Netgear the First, and after that only resurrected to rule out line/cabling problems as each router deteriorated. I mention that because I would be inclined to second kaizersoze's suggestion about using the Netopia in bridge mode, but only if it lasts the pace.

Re the actual cause, doesn't logic suggest that it is actually your line, regardless of what Eircom say? 20+ years without a voltage-related problem is all well and good, except that 18 of those had nothing to do with DSL, and 56k and earlier modem standards would have been a lot more lenient about fluctuations such as those suggested by Sponge Bob.

I'd say do the measurements and then see where you are.

Actually, here's another thought - could you bring the dead/dying routers to some other DSL-enabled location (friend's house, whatever) and see if they work there?

ADSLUSER

I also believe it is an Eircom issue. I too was an early adopter and only 6 months ago did I experience my first drop outs. I too thought it was my wireless/lan router (3Com) but I later discovered the same issue exibited with the original Eircom Netopia Ethernet modem and also my Apple Airport Express. I called Eircom up to report a fault but nothing registered on their side, they too said I was still connected. I checked some of my router settings and at times, the logs indicated that I was still connected but the connection was so slow, everything would just time out. After a day, everything went back to normal but 3 months later, the same thing happened. Again, contacted and reported the issue to Eircom. However, again, after 1 day, the issues disappeared. Eircom said they could send an engineer out to check the lines but if nothing was discovered, they would charge me a standard callout fee of 80 Eur or something in the lines of that so I declined. My line is now working perfectly for the past month with no hiccups but I'm convinced it's Eircom either doing routine maintenance or upgrades which they are not informing customers about. Well that's my conspiracy theory.

CorporalCarrot

Guys

Just a point of clarification........perhaps the title of the thread was a bit unfortunate........I have no preconceived notions of what is causing the problem and had not automatically assumed it was Eircom.

On the Cayman front, I have actually used it for an extended period of time......its currently up and running for around 6 weeks now, and has had extended periods of a couple of months or more at various times. Every time I've had to fall back on it, it has worked perfectly.

On measuring the line quality, where would I get a cheap Multimeter and what exactly would I be checking for?

On the idea of using the cayman as a bridge, how exactly would I do this?? I presume that means;

dsl Line -> cayman -> router/wap -> networked pc's.

I have never bridged two modems like this before and my initial question I guess would be that the output from the cayman is via ethernet or usb, but the various routers I have bought only accept rj45 input or whatever. Or can I plug the ethernet cable from the cayman into one of the ethernet ports of the routers and go figure from there?

C

Red Alert

i'd be more inclined to leave the nettopia alone on the line then so. you can get much better routers (or build your own from Openbsd and mini-itx)

dar83

Why don't you try and get the Cayman 3347W from Eircom, I used to only have their Zyxel USB Modem and I ordered the Cayman 3347W from a promotion on their website (upgrade promotion for existing customers) for only €49. It'll connect all three of your PC's and have your wireless LAN running perfectly.
Also if you think Netopia's are immune to this problem, then it should take care of that as well.

I know we were one of the first to get Eircom Broadband in back when they first introduced it to residential customers, we were on the initial waiting list so we got it pretty soon after it was setup. Anyway, I've never had a problem with the Eircom supplied hardware, so maybe try sticking with that (even though better is available).

CorporalCarrot

Is it possible though to use the cayman with one of the other routers?? The bridge as someone suggested earlier?

C

dar83

It is, but with the Cayman 3347W you wouldn't need to, thats why I suggested it.

It has 4 ethernet ports and wireless lan built in, so you wouldn't need to use a seperate router bridged to get your desired results. Unless you just want to bridge another router for some other reason?!

Tenshot

Until around 6 months ago when all of a sudden I started to experience intermittent loss of sync

For what it's worth: Eircom upgraded the DSLAMs (or DSLAM firmware?) in their exchanges back in April. Following that, a friend's DSL line started losing connection several times a day. It retrains automatically and is not too obtrusive -- I have his router configured to email him (and me) each time it happens so we see quite a lot of messages about it.

I suspect his problem is that he has Eircom Phonewatch installed upstream from the DSL splitter box, when it should really be downstream. This didn't cause problems previously but the exchange DSLAMs now appear to be a bit more sensitive. When I have a chance, I'm going to go out and move the DSL splitter upstream from the Phonewatch box and I expect that this will correct it.

Any chance your problem correlates with the upgrade timeframe?

Paddyo

I had a customer with Istream and was having intermittent disconnection problems. Tried lots of thing.

One day he had to remove Norton firewall for some reason or other and from that day no more problems as before.

Are you using Norton?

Paddyo

CorporalCarrot

Tenshot

No I was having problems before that.

Paddy

No, no norton....and its not at that level that the problem occurs. Its at the dsl sync level, physically where the line meets the router.

Anyone Else

Has anyone managed to use the netopia modem as a bridge?

C

CorporalCarrot

Actually folks, been fiddling about with it and have managed to get it working. Took a fair bit of messing about though......I must say I find the way settings are laid out in the cayman modem is not that user friendly. Took me a while to find the dhcp server and disable it....was clashing with the other router.

Anyway seems like happy days so far, this message is being posted through the bridged connection.

C