Marshall AVT 150. What to do??

fergferg79

Evening!

I dont really know much about amps, so I was wondering if someone could help me out!

Im considering buying a Marshall AVT 150 for 800 euros, is this a reasonable price??

After all, its only a coupla blips till christmas. Am I better off waiting till after christmas to buy something on sale??

Cheers

Eoin Madsen

No, they're not even worth half that. And that's assuming that you like them. Personally, I think they're one of the most terrible amps that has been conceived since the start of the universe.

What kind of music are you into? I'm sure you can get a few (varied) suggestions from us that will suit you much better than an AVT.

Karl Hungus

Yeah, that's not a good price for an AVT. Definetly tells us more about your stlye and such, and we'll see what we can recommend.

Ravelleman

Eoin Madsen wrote:

No, they're not even worth half that. And that's assuming that you like them. Personally, I think they're one of the most terrible amps that has been conceived since the start of the universe.

I agree, though the MG series are worse. I sold mine last week. Muhahahaha! :v:

Eoin Madsen wrote:

What kind of music are you into? I'm sure you can get a few (varied) suggestions from us that will suit you much better than an AVT.

ENGL Thunder.

Paladin

Im not as anti-AVT as Eoin (nobody could be , but I actually like the AVT150 and AVT275 (my amp) but agree the MG are awful) however I am realistic about them and I know they are over priced. Doesnt make them bad, but it means you shouldnt buy them new. Ever.
In fact marshall should almost never be bought new unless gold flows from your nose.

I bought the AVT275 for €500 a few years ago. It was worth that. The AVT150 is worth a little less.

Karl Hungus

Ravelleman wrote:

ENGL Thunder.

Now that's a suggestion I can get behind. See here, it's that bit cheaper, and honestly, you'll be sorted with that baby.

Ravelleman

Karl Hungus wrote:

Now that's a suggestion I can get behind. See here, it's that bit cheaper, and honestly, you'll be sorted with that baby.

Oh man, I love my ENGL Thunder. The cleans are incredible. It's not the "gainiest" amp out there but it is a great platform for pedals, which can remedy that for you. I'm using a tubesreamer-like pedal with it on the clean chanel and it's positively delightful. (That being said, I am experiencing some mysterious buzzing with mine, though I did buy it second hand. It might need a retube or I might need to replace my leads. I hope this doesn't invalidate my arguement for buying one...)

fergferg79

I thought Marshalls were supposed to be the best??

The stuff I play is: High on gain, bit of reverb, lots of treble with some bass.

Any suggestions for a 150w amp around 600 - 800 euros

Thanks

Mr. CooL ICE

fergferg79 wrote:

I thought Marshalls were supposed to be the best??

Far from it, they have gotten increasingly shoddy over the years IMO. I dunno how many people I know thought the same as you and spent €500 on a worthless piece of crap. For your sound, possibly the best amp brand is Mesa Boogie (what metallica and countless others use), but they are very pricey, and ENGL are basically a much less expensive version of Mesa

feylya

But why 150W? That's limiting yourself far too much. A nice 50W tube amp would suit. Randall could be nice.

Eoin Madsen

fergferg79 wrote:

I thought Marshalls were supposed to be the best??

The stuff I play is: High on gain, bit of reverb, lots of treble with some bass.

Any suggestions for a 150w amp around 600 - 800 euros

The bands you see with Marshall's in their videos are paid to do it. Seriously, its common practice. Marshall are presently surviving on the reputation of their 60s, 70s, and 80s amps. Nothing since the start of the 90s has been particularly highly regarded.

Bear in mind that a 30-watt valve amp like an AC30 can quite easily shout down a 150-watt solidstate amp. A 150-watt valve amp could be loud enough to start a war before the powervalves even begin to saturate.

Beecher

Ravelleman wrote:

It might need a retube

Regardless of whether it needs it or not you should look into this anyways, ive used my ENGL preamp with the original tubes (I've heard engl use cheap rebranded sovteks) and a set of JJ tubes. The preamp is warmer with less noise and higher gain with the JJ's! WOOT :v:

FergFerg70 wrote:

Any suggestions for a 150w amp around 600 - 800 euros

Well not 150w but these amps should more than suffice.

Peavey Valve King Head (that link is kinda expensive, but your prob looking at around 550'ish, maybe 600, for the head off a good online retailer, and you could pick up a nice 2x12 framus cab for 299 blips)

Peavey Valve King 1 x 12 Combo

Engl Thunder, Rementioning this cause its savage!

Otherwise thrawl ebay for a cheap MesaBoogie.

feylya

Ya know, I was looking at that Peavey for a while but then I decided.

Beecher

feylya wrote:

Ya know, I was looking at that Peavey for a while but then I decided.

Those Valve Kings are meant to be awesome! I think theres some links to soundclips on another forum, might throw them up for the OP. Any sign of your package yet? :v:

sei046

dont wanna make a "your ma" joke.............

feylya

Beecher wrote:

Those Valve Kings are meant to be awesome! I think theres some links to soundclips on another forum, might throw them up for the OP. Any sign of your package yet? :v:

You'd have to ask the missus :v:

Also, no.

Paladin

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Bear in mind that a 30-watt valve amp like an AC30 can quite easily shout down a 150-watt solidstate amp. A 150-watt valve amp could be loud enough to start a war before the powervalves even begin to saturate.

Aah, the old valve watts are louder than solid-state watts myth.
It has some grounding, but like many myths is scientifically explainable.

The answer, the 30Watt AC30 puts out about 45Watts. Simple.
The old ratings for amplifiers were not as accurate as modern ratings and they gave themselves plenty of headroom.

Thats just one of many myths about valve amplifiers that I heard about before I got edu-macated about amps. Would love to write out a facts and myths piece that could become sticky so people could get some basic understanding of things like amplifiers, matching impedences, functions of FX loops and those kind of things.

Id have to watch I didnt go into a rant about myths though

Jimmy_Jazz

I have to admit that I bought a Marshall AVT50 mainly due to Marshall's reputation and huge list of endorsees (i.e. Slash ). The amp ain't bad, but it's far from great. The clean channel in particular is very bland. I can't afford to get a new amp yet so I'm stuck with this for a while. Next time though, I'll be seriously considering Hughes & Kettner.

sei046

MOTHERFECKING HUGHES MY FRIEND! the only way to go. The avt is possibly the worst amp i have heard in a long time in that range

Eoin Madsen

Paladin wrote:

Aah, the old valve watts are louder than solid-state watts myth.
It has some grounding, but like many myths is scientifically explainable.

The answer, the 30Watt AC30 puts out about 45Watts. Simple.
The old ratings for amplifiers were not as accurate as modern ratings and they gave themselves plenty of headroom.

If it was that simple then why (for example) is an AC30 louder than a VS100? Yes, it is scientifically explanable, but no, that is not the entire explanation.

I don't think anyone is actually that interested in knowing the boring technical reasons, so why bring it up?

sei046

i not sure if thats fair either now, i think a lot of people are into the technical side of it but its true that i dont think that is the entire reason

Rustar

Paladin wrote:

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Battle of the Titans? :v:

sei046

rustar...you kind of make me mad.....why on gods earth do your links at the bottom not work?!??!?! i really want to see them!

It wasn't me!

Well, valve amps put out more volume for their wattage than solid-state. It's basically the simplified argument, and it's essentially true. I love teh Thunder 50. If you're looking for an amp in that bracket, at least try it. It's yummy, and does a nice crunch when called upon to do so.

feylya

The videotest files do...

sei046

seriously? they wont for me

Rustar

sei046 wrote:

rustar...you kind of make me mad.....why on gods earth do your links at the bottom not work?!??!?! i really want to see them!

Really? I've never had a problem, and I check them every once in a while....wonder if it's because they're US-based and maybe there's some kind of block on you?

Edit: you checking from work? Maybe your Router Man has you all locked out or something....

Edit: the first 6 are just pics of me and my band at a festival about 8 years ago....the mp3 link is on Putfile.com

sei046

nope defo wont work! duno what it is. it sounds class!

Rustar

try http://www.putfile.com/ancientempire for the soundbite, there's a few pics of me instruments there too.

sei046

u have some nice guitars bud. i can give ya some nicer software if u like though!

Karl Hungus

fergferg79 wrote:

I thought Marshalls were supposed to be the best??

HELL NO!!! To be fairly blunt. As someone mentioned already, they're riding out their reputation, so if you buy a Marshall, you're buying a name. There are far, far better amps around today, such as Mesa Boogie, ENGL, Laney, Hughes&Kettner, and many, many more, all of which I'd get hands down over a Marshall. I've used an AVT150 before, and you can get some decent sounds out of it alright, but I wouldn't buy one, and it is most certainly not worth the asking price.

fergferg79 wrote:

The stuff I play is: High on gain, bit of reverb, lots of treble with some bass.

Any suggestions for a 150w amp around 600 - 800 euros

Thanks

First of all "High on gain" isn't really a style. We're not asking for your EQ settings here, we're asking what kind of music you're playing, or what players do you like. Throw us a bone here.

What do you think you need 150w for exactly? Wattage means sweet **** all, I'll tell you that right now. Get a decent tube amp and you will be sorted, even if you're going to be playing fairly large venues, it'll be mic'd up. The ENGL Thunder 50 really is all you will need, unless you're going to play the Point any time soon, which somehow I doubt.

sei046

if your playin the point it doesnt matter. Slash uses a 50w combo. once its miced your fine

Rustar

Karl Hungus wrote:

What do you think you need 150w for exactly?

I know a whole bunch of bassists around the world who wouldn't be toooo awful upset if all guitarists cut down to 15w or so.....:D

sei046 wrote:

u have some nice guitars bud. i can give ya some nicer software if u like though!

Thanks! I'm using Guitar Tracks Pro 3, not too much into the MIDI stuff, so it's good for my needs. I'm definitely a live-oriented kinda guy.

Paladin

Nothing wrong with a little knowledge Eoin, thats why I bring it up. We are both aware of the amount of idiots that fell for Marshalls Valvestate sh1te, and all that hybrid crap. Trying to tout that just because an amp has a valve somewhere in the circuitry it must be great. Thats another valve myth, along with the watts one.

Basic electronic fact is that valves are not used in any other area of electronics because they are outperformed by transistors in every area.

Valve amps sell on the reputation that they sound better than solid-state. Blind tests have found again and again that people, joe soaps and guitar virtuosos alike fail to tell the difference in direct power amplifier comparison (I did my degree project on this so thats why im interested in the area).

Where listeners most certainly CAN tell the difference is between entire amp/preamp/speaker combo's. This is where the whole thing screws people up. Valve amps are way more expensive and tend to have better equipment surrounding the valves. The performance difference between valves and transistors is not the major contributer to the different sound, its all the other expensive crap surrounding them.

Reference: Valve and Transistor Amplifiers, by John Linsley Hood
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0750633565/103-5385799-8822219?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Anyone who wants to know whythey are being ripped off with valve amps should buy this. The (late) author designed both kind of amps and was the foremost name in amplifier design for a long time. He talks about how the (inaccurate) reputation of valve amps came about historically.

Dont misinterpret what Im saying now...
Valve amps like the AC30 sound great. Its just not because they have valves
(The AC30's sound is mostly because of its vintage speakers which distort the sound quite a lot, but in a pleasant way strangely enough).

The only plausible difference in an improvement in pleasant audibility is the transformer actually, but thats a story for another day...

Doctor J

^^^ Good post ^^^

Paladin wrote:

Would love to write out a facts and myths piece that could become sticky so people could get some basic understanding of things like amplifiers, matching impedences, functions of FX loops and those kind of things.

Do it man, I'd like to read it. People tend to go on hype, rather than trust their ears, when it comes to amps...


... which is generally why I don't usually get involved in these threads


Edit -> I've two guitar amps, a Fender Roc Pro (hybrid - mainly transistor) and an Ampeg VH140C (transistor), which both sound just fine to me, despite neither having a substantial price tag or the hallowed tube architecture legend would have you believe is required for the tone. They sound good to my ears, that's what I go on.

Ancient1

Basic electronic fact is that valves are not used in any other area of electronics because they are outperformed by transistors in every area.

If you're talking about rectifiers, yes. Tube rectifiers have internal resistance whereas solid-state rectifiers do not. Tube rectifiers are not as efficient because they can't always provide consistent voltage.

Giblet

ENGL Thunder 50. It's loud, and your solos will scream through the mix. It won't be dirty like a Marshall, you will hear EVERYTHING.

My ENGL is actually having some problems now. Every so often, a very loud, bassy hum will come from it and I have to turn it off to get rid of it.......

Please just be a tube problem.

Beecher

Doctor J wrote:

Do it man, I'd like to read it. People tend to go on hype, rather than trust their ears, when it comes to amps...

Seconded! I think ive got my head around impedences now but i'd love to learn more, and definitely would like to know more about the effects loops i.e which effects run better through it and why. :v:

fergferg79

Thanks for all the advice!

Thanks especially to everyone who mentioned the ENGL thunder 50(except karl hungus. If I ever play The Point, I'll be sure to track you down, and piss in your face). Ill definitley look into buying a ENGL.

Cheers

feylya

I can't wait to put a tube amp side by side with a Peavey Bandit II and compare them. It'll be very very interesting cos I really like the Bandit II's sound so hopefully the tube amp will be at least equal.

Rustar

Doctor J wrote:

..which both sound just fine to me, despite neither having a substantial price tag or the hallowed tube architecture legend would have you believe is required for the tone. They sound good to my ears, that's what I go on.

Hear Hear, Doc....if your guitar and amp combo makes you feel like SRV screaming thru a Fender Bassman with a Big Muff and a Morley wha.....then it IS good!

Eoin Madsen

feylya wrote:

I can't wait to put a tube amp side by side with a Peavey Bandit II and compare them. It'll be very very interesting cos I really like the Bandit II's sound so hopefully the tube amp will be at least equal.

Every valve amp is different, and they have their fair share of cheap muck floating around as well.

Whatever about using mathematical abstractions to argue moot points, I'd agree with Paladin in that there is no grand "valves vs solidstate" argument. Every amp is different and most solidstate amps that particularly suck do so because they're cheap, not because they're solidstate.

Paladin

Eoin Madsen wrote:

I'd agree with Paladin

We generally do Eoin

It wasn't me!

Indeed. Many companies make good solidstate amps, but there are plenty of greta valve amps out there too, and in the end it's down to personal preference which amp you go for. My preference is for valves generally, but I've played some damn nice solidstate stuff too.

Karl Hungus

Hey, the Microcube is solid state. No arguements from me!

feylya

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Every valve amp is different, and they have their fair share of cheap muck floating around as well.

Whatever about using mathematical abstractions to argue moot points, I'd agree with Paladin in that there is no grand "valves vs solidstate" argument. Every amp is different and most solidstate amps that particularly suck do so because they're cheap, not because they're solidstate.

That's true although every single review I've seen of this amp says it's like an amp twice the price.

Eoin Madsen

feylya wrote:

That's true although every single review I've seen of this amp says it's like an amp twice the price.

That's cool, and perfectly believeable given the insanely inflated prices of most amps, valve or otherwise.

Rustar

Karl Hungus wrote:

Hey, the Microcube is solid state. No arguements from me!

Microcube........MMmmmmmmmmm......<slurp>

selephonic

feylya wrote:

I can't wait to put a tube amp side by side with a Peavey Bandit II and compare them. It'll be very very interesting cos I really like the Bandit II's sound so hopefully the tube amp will be at least equal.

I often have a Bandit going beside a marshall superlead or a sovtek mig 60, and can tell you the bandit is muck in comparison. It just sounds like a bad transistor amp and doesn't cut through the mix at all.

On the issue of hybrids, I have a Vox valvetronix which sounds pretty sweet, and has more versatility than any amp I've played. cuts tghrough nicely too