Being Fat

Kazibums

The Dutchess of Windsor once said "You can never be too rich or too thin."
Have we progressed as society or is this still the view?

I am a female, 5' 5" and Size 14. Really, this shouldnt be considered overweight necessarily, but it is. Size 14 is not longer the largest 'normal' size, but is now the smallest 'larger' sizes.

Years ago, being slim would mean being size 10-12 but now its more like size 6-8 and size 10-12 is just being 'normal'.

Have we as a society lost the plot altogether? Is there the perfect size? Why have we rejected the fuller motherly figure for the hereoin chick? Why is size even an issue?

Also, would appreciate to know the guys views on this?
Which would you prefer in a woman, being slim or carrying a few pounds? How much weight would your girlfriend have to put on before it would be an issue for you?
Where would you rate size in matter of importance in potential life partener?
how would you feel if your parner never recovered her figure post child-birth.?
Also, how much extra lbs would a woman have to be (or what size) before you
considere her overweight?

Also woman - does the same work in reverse.... if a man carried extra weight, would this affect you? Would you rate it as an issue?

I know from my own experience, when I have lost weight it past, this was commented on and praised and advice sought. I got more congratulations over weight loss than I did for graduating college!!! But when I regained the weight, there was nothing said.... an embarresed silence and albiet pity hung over.

Personally, having had my appearance & size commented on for as long as I can remember, I feel the Dutchess view is still a valid reflection even if we dont like it.

Apologies, if this is the wrong forum - but wasnt sure where to post my rant

Zombrex

Kazibums wrote:

Why is size even an issue?

Well there is a difference between fashion over-weight and health over-weight. As long as you are a healthy weight (based on the height-body mass index), take proper excerise and eat relatively well, it shouldn't matter to you if society things you are over weight or not. Unfortunately as a society more and more of us are becoming over weight in a medical sense. I am, and I really must do something about it because being a low birth weight child I am at risk from heart diease (ironic no:D ).

Kazibums wrote:

Also, would appreciate to know the guys views on this?

Skinny diet birds with no ass or breasts? No thinks, I don't like shagging someone that looks like a pre-pubesent boy.

The prefect look, attractiveness wise, in my opinion is someone who has healthy curves, ie someone who eats real food but also works out and keeps themselves in shape.

Kazibums wrote:

Also, how much extra lbs would a woman have to be (or what size) before you considere her overweight?

It depends on how tall they are (again, see the height-body mass indicator)

audge

Years ago, being slim would mean being size 10-12 but now its more like size 6-8 and size 10-12 is just being 'normal'.

Not so, a size 14 today is the equivalant of a size 18 20 years ago. Women are getting fatter (as are men) and clothing manufacturers are becoming more "generous" when sizing clothing so as not to depress and offend their customers.
What does "normal" mean to you? In the UK 47% of the female population is over a size 16 (hence the 1647 clothing range), this would lead me to beleave, based on averages that a size 16 is "normal".

I am 5"6 and a size 12/14 and am under no illusion that I am overweight. I base not on appearances, but on medical fact and reccomendation.

Kazibums wrote:

Why is size even an issue?

Size is an issue because a 5"6 size 12/14 women is techincally overweight and therefore unhealthy. People see "fat" as being unhealthy, however, being too thin can also be seen as unhealthy and therefore unattractive.
Fat is also subconsously associated with Laziness, which is unattractive, whereas someone who is too thin can be deemed fragile, and physically weak, again, this can be seen as unattractive.

Kazibums wrote:

Also woman - does the same work in reverse.... if a man carried extra weight, would this affect you? Would you rate it as an issue?

My answer to this question is YES! It is an issue, in terms of appearance, I would prefer a man to be a heathy weight and size for his height.
If you are asking this question in terms of relationship possibility based on size, then I would have to say that obviously in that case personality would be a huge influential factor. Size alone would not determine the outcome, but it would play a part.

Wibbs

Kazibums wrote:

Have we as a society lost the plot altogether? Is there the perfect size? Why have we rejected the fuller motherly figure for the hereoin chick?

Well most would prefer the motherly type to the heroin addict look. There is a happy medium between the two, you know.

Which would you prefer in a woman, being slim or carrying a few pounds?

Slim. Then again I'm slim myself so maybe like with like is operating here.

How much weight would your girlfriend have to put on before it would be an issue for you?

As a rough guide, I'd ask questions after she went up 2 dress sizes. I'd simply ask why is she gaining the weight. I mean I haven't changed weight since I reached adulthood. There would be a background reason for it.

Where would you rate size in matter of importance in potential life partener?

If I'm being honest, after personality and face, pretty high, I'm afraid.

how would you feel if your parner never recovered her figure post child-birth.?

Some women don't lose the weight. Some do. There seems to be a genetic factor at work. That said a lot don't out of laziness or being "settled down"(pigeons, insert cat). Again, if I'm being honest, I wouldn't be that happy about it.

Also, how much extra lbs would a woman have to be (or what size) before you
considere her overweight?

That really depends on the woman. For me, I just know it when I see it.

PS all of the above should apply to fat blokes too(birth notwithstanding). People a generation ago weren't as fat. Basically, we're eating too much and exercising too little nowadays.

D

This topic just keeps popping up lately, and each thread folows the exact same pattern. We'll go through the whole, "as long as your happy with yourself" "to each their own" "well i Like bigger women" scenarios. But at the end of it, the overall theme to the discussion, is beauty in the eye of the beholder, and you are attractive if your body is in the the right proportions, not size. Size does not matter, once again it is the 70% rule, if your waist is 70% the size of your hips, then you have the genetic, fertile body and men will be attracted.

savoyard

audge wrote:

I am 5"6 and a size 12/14 and am under no illusion that I am overweight. I base not on appearances, but on medical fact and reccomendation...
Size is an issue because a 5"6 size 12/14 women is techincally overweight and therefore unhealthy.

This is not generally considered medically overweight. The current trend is to use BMI and a woman of 5ft 6 needs to hit 11stone before she moves out of the healthy weight range into overweight. 11 stone is not generally a 12/14.

Obviously different people have different shapes for their height but to say that a woman who is 5ft 6 and a size 12/14 is medically overweight sound strange. It may be bigger than she wants to be and overweight by fashionable standards, but not by medical standards.

Has your doctor told you you are medically overweight Audge? Check the BMI calculator.. Also, things like being on the pill can inflate you. I lost almost a dress size when I came off it:) but my weight has remained pretty similar.

audge

savoyard wrote:

Has your doctor told you you are medically overweight Audge? Check the BMI calculator.. Also, things like being on the pill can inflate you. I lost almost a dress size when I came off it:) but my weight has remained pretty similar.

5"6 AND ABOUT 11 STONE
I have a BMI of 25, and my ideal BMI is 22, 10 stone would be a nicel healthy wieght for me.
Appearance wise, I seem to carry the weight in all the right places, hence being size 12/14, so I guess I am very lucky, but it doesn't alter the fact that for health reasons I could stand to loose a few pounds.

bonkey

Kazibums wrote:

Also, would appreciate to know the guys views on this?

OK.

Which would you prefer in a woman, being slim or carrying a few pounds?

In a woman, an object of physical attraction, or a partner?

How much weight would your girlfriend have to put on before it would be an issue for you?

Enough that it becme a health risk. Same for her losing weight.

Where would you rate size in matter of importance in potential life partener?

Size? Or weight-relative-to-ideal?

Both, incidentally, I consider utterly irrelevant in terms of a life partner, with the possible exception of when it becomes a health issue.

how would you feel if your parner never recovered her figure post child-birth.?

Hopefully like a father.

Also, how much extra lbs would a woman have to be (or what size) before you considere her overweight?

Thats a medical question and I'm not a doctor.

I feel the Dutchess view is still a valid reflection even if we dont like it.

A valid reflection of some people and how they think life should be lived, yes.

jc

sobriquet

Kazibums wrote:

Also woman - does the same work in reverse.... if a man carried extra weight, would this affect you? Would you rate it as an issue?

From my experience (I'm male), it is an issue for women. I'm about 5'10", and dropped around 2.5 stones over recent years, mostly in about two goes. I'm a stocky and fairly well built bloke anyway, so the weight was fairly pronounced.

I was honestly surprised (not sure why in hindsight) at the different reaction I get from women after losing weight. It's hard to enumerate what it was exactly, but basically women would look twice when they wouldn't before, or show a greater interest generally where before I'd have been blanked. In some cases this involved the same person! I can't say I wasn't a little bitter about it for a while either, but there's no point in that really, life goes on.

Kazibums

D wrote:

beauty in the eye of the beholder, and you are attractive if your body is in the the right proportions, not size. Size does not matter,

This is true. But I don’t mean to discuss how an overweight person feels bout their size, but how we view overweight people. Already it has been brought up that they are seen to be lazy or cant be bothered doing anything bout it as they are settled down (that one caused my boil to actually boil over, but however). But what maddened me most, was that I've passed similiar judgements. Where to we get these opinions from?

Not only how society views overweight people but how the goal posts are narrowing … what would have been perceived as normal years ago,
(http://buweb.binghamton.edu/pgay/fat/bather.jpg ) is now fat by todays standards-
http://www.gm.tv/media/images/kidd_m.jpg

What was seen as a mothering figure before, is now seen generally as just fat?

ApeXaviour

Kazibums wrote:

Not only how society views overweight people but how the goal posts are narrowing … what would have been perceived as normal years ago,
(http://buweb.binghamton.edu/pgay/fat/bather.jpg ) is now fat by todays standards-
http://www.gm.tv/media/images/kidd_m.jpg

What was seen as a mothering figure before, is now seen generally as just fat?

I disagree. The type in the former picture was considered attractive a few centuries ago but for different reasons than you percieve. A woman that size was certainly not the norm among the average 16C to 18C european. Often only a woman of wealth (and hence a hefty dowry) would look like that, hence the "attractiveness".
The latter picture is a product over-emphasis by the fashion and media, a "caricature" if you will of perceived attractiveness in light of the increasing weight gain of western society.

Neither are the ideal.

Also your comment about the former picture depicting a "mothering figure", I also disagree on that. Socialogical and biological studies have shown (I don't have time right now to provide references) that body shape rather than body size is more of the deciding factor when it comes down to attractiveness. Why? Well it's evolution isn't it.. fertility is attractive. Women with figures (defining figures as being of a 7:10 ratio waist to hips) tend to be more fertile than the stocky type with a bit of a belly, or women with the "heroin look" as you call it. As such I wouldn't call either of the pictures you've shown a motherly figure, rather something in the middle.

Wibbs

I agree with ApeXaviour on this one. The hip waist ratio is a biggie. What I personally find unattractive is the straight up and down shape that seems more common, where the waist is the same size as the hips. It's not even a weight issue per se. There are quite a few skinny women who have this trait as well. I don't know what causes it, but it makes even the skinny women look more like they have the body shape of men. A belly isn't so bad, but when it's the same size or bigger than the waist, you got a problem. Apple shaped, I think they call it.

It does seem more prevalent here when compared to places like Italy, spain etc. The dress sizes seem a lot smaller in those places too.

AARRRGH

Fat means lack of self control.

Little exercise and too much eating.

I find it highly unattractive. Obese people disgust me.

The excuses and depression about being fat make it even worse.

...

Irish women in general are quite fat. French women in general are slim. Why?

audge

Mmmm, I suppose it is mainly down to a difference in culture.
Laziness is a BIG factor, and it can stem from the parents.
How many people here can say their parents cooked them a healthy meal every night whilst they where growing up? Hands up who prepares healthy meals for themselves every night...
My mother wasn't too bad, but many dublin families survive on a diet of fast foods.

In france, they source enjoyment from cooking, where as we see it as a burden.

As a nation, we are quite greedy, I am not sure of the stats but a massive percentage of our incomes is spent on food and booze, I cant imagine this helps matters.

I am by no means an expert on this topic, it would just seem as though the french encourage a healthy lifestyle where as we see it as hardwork.

simu

Kazibums wrote:

Also woman - does the same work in reverse.... if a man carried extra weight, would this affect you? Would you rate it as an issue?

Nah, it's not an issue of he carries it well. I go for overall look, not individual specs.

As for women, most women are larger than models but they manage to attract men so they can't be all that badly off! It's only in the warped world of fashion that it's a burning issue.

AARRRGH

audge wrote:

In france, they source enjoyment from cooking, where as we see it as a burden.

You'll also find they exercise a lot, feel very guilty if they eat McDonalds, and have a healthy lifestyle in general!

I agree with your points though.

ferdi

Kazibums wrote:

would appreciate to know the guys views on this?
Which would you prefer in a woman, being slim or carrying a few pounds? How much weight would your girlfriend have to put on before it would be an issue for you?

as long as she is was health and happy, i'd be happy
and also i like to be able to differenciate between hips and waist

audge

dublindude wrote:

You'll also find they exercise a lot, feel very guilty if they eat McDonalds, and have a healthy lifestyle in general!

I agree with your points though.

In an episode of super nanny, slightly off track here, one of the kids refused to eat, and was basically wasting away.
So the parents were asked to put together healthy, tasty meals for the children
(They made up a menu and the child was able to select what he wanted to eat)

Anyhow, it was really working and the child progressed from eating nothing but crisps to eating fruit, veg, white and red meat.. the works.

Oh how delighted the parents where.... untill they got pis$ed off making healthy meals and went back to the frozen and fast kind.

Honestly, they knew the benefits of making a meal from scratch and yet they went back to their old ways, despite the fact that the child refused to eat again, out of sheer laziness.

That is disgusting!

dudara

TBH, I do find obesity somewhat disgusting. I can't particularly say why, but I suppose that I would consider it to be a lack of intelligence and awareness (of diet, exercise and health). I also find smoking incredibly unattractive, again for the same reasons.

m1ke

There is also a compulsive/addiction/medical element to obesity. It's not all down to lack of control. Being disgusted by obesity is like being disgusted by cancer.

To the op: I would consider someone overweight at bmi of 25+. From my own pov, a few pounds here or there on a woman wouldn't put me off too much.

chump

There is also a compulsive/addiction/medical element to obesity. It's not all down to lack of control. Being disgusted by obesity is like being disgusted by cancer.

Can't agree with that m1ke...
How is being disgusted by obesity anything like being disgusted by cancer?

It's a completely unfair comparison.

A fairer comparison, with relation to your compulsive/addiction/medical theory, would be someone being disgusted by a smoker, or a drug addict, or a porn addict, or a kleptomaniac or a ...

From personal observation, most obese people I would have come across eat too much ... food They often have low self esteem (cause and affect? or vice versa?) and are stuck in a cycle.
Fair enough medical intervention would and could help, but that's not the point.

On a personal level to the OP: I don't think many men have a problem with a girl carrying a few excess pounds, I think that 70% thing mentioned is a good point, I like a figure, I like curves, I like a healthy looking women, I am not as attracted to an overweight woman. Of course there's more to attraction, and there's different levels of overweight ... but this whole society demands nonsense doesn't rub with me, and I don't think mans idea of an attractive woman has changed that much in the last few decades.

As for the whole rake-thin model thing, we all know they're too thin, we all say it, it's agreed on, why do they do it? I don't know.

AARRRGH

m1ke wrote:

Being disgusted by obesity is like being disgusted by cancer.

FFS. Cancer is not the persons fault (in most cases.)

Obesity is ALWAYS the persons fault. Yes, maybe 0.1% of the time there is a medical reason, but even then, THEY STILL ARE EATING TOO MUCH.

You cannot get fat without eating too much.

I have ZERO sympathy for fat people.

Cancer and eating too much have absolutely nothing in common. The comparison is ridiculous.

BuffyBot

Obesity is ALWAYS the persons fault. Yes, maybe 0.1% of the time there is a medical reason

Apart from the first, definitve statement contradicted by the second, have you any proof that a) it is "ALWAYS" the persons fault and that "0.1% of the time" it is medical?

Wibbs

While in some cases it is a medical/metabolic problem outside of the individuals control, mostly it's not. Frankly that's a cop out for people. If it was a medical problem then it's one that people didn't seem to have only a generation ago, when there were far far fewer fat people. Basically people are eating more, moving less nowadays, hence extra fat.

nesf

While I agree that a lot of our problems regarding overweight and obese people come from a lack of exercise and a lack of self control, I find the "facts" presented here to be amusing. There are other factors at play than just food and exercise when it comes to people being overweight. Some people are overweight regardless of how much they eat or how much exercise they get. We all know people like this (note: I said overweight not obese). It was present a generation ago, even two. Just take a look at some families of "big men" that worked hard and you will see overweight men. They also tend to have large frames etc. It's not an excuse or anything, I'm more trying to highlight that overweight people are not just a modern phenomena.


Attraction wise? Yes it does make a difference with women. My weight fluctuates (over 4 and a bit stone difference this year) a lot because of medication I'm put on and women do react differently to you at different weight levels. Mostly I think to "how much weight is showing on the face" is a bigger factor than body. If a guy's cheeks are chubby women definitely react differently to when they are not. But, as for women, being a bit overweight doesn't stop you pulling and doesn't stop you from being attractive. Being obese is a different story, but just carrying some extra weight is not an enormous deal. Yes some people will care but other's won't.

As for like attracts like, I disagree. That isn't always the case. Some thin guys are not attracted to thin women and vice versa. Being thin is not an automatic ticket to sucess. Neither is looking healthy. People's attraction to each other is far more complicated than that. Yes body type and weight will play an important role in this but it's side by side with other factors like personality, lifestyle etc.

Catsmokinpot

i like big butts and i cannot lie!:v: :v: :v:

neah seriously skinny women dont appeal to me that much i dont like fat chicks but its nice to have something to hold on to...

it doesnt really matter how big you are or small it matters wether you make me laugh or not, and aslong as you carry yourself well and have confidence in yourself it really doesnt matter to me

Sleepy

Seriously overweight people can be disgusting to look at tbh.

By and large (no pun intended) I don't have any sympathy for the snivelling simpletons you see on television trying to convince us that their obesity problem is glandular as they suck down a family bucket of KFC and a litre of diet coke. Sure, some people are naturally of a bigger build, no-one doing any exercise and eating correctly (or even any way normally) is beyond a size 16 or a 36" waist for men.

Most guys, myself included prefer a woman to be curvy rather than really skinny. The fashion business use very, very thin women because they're like clothes hangers and can wear almost anything without looking too terrible. What people forget is that fashion models are chosen because the clothes look great on them more than because they're incredibly attractive women. Just look at how few of these women appear in the likes of FHM etc. The women you see in these magazines ARE there because they're incredibly attractive and most of these girls would be a size 10 - 12 rather than a 6 - 8. Remember, Marilyn Monroe was a size 14

AARRRGH

BuffyBot wrote:

Apart from the first, definitve statement contradicted by the second, have you any proof that a) it is "ALWAYS" the persons fault and that "0.1% of the time" it is medical?

Nice selective editing.

Yes, maybe you have some medical issue but it has to be combined with excessive eating. You cannot get fat without eating too much, or at least, living a highly sedentary (sp?) lifestyle.

AARRRGH

Sleepy wrote:

Marilyn Monroe was a size 14

Not quite! She was a 12 max.

The problem is, being a 14 is fine if you are tall. But if you're a little runt, you just look like a mutant.

I think too many girls ignore the height factor when they talk about dress size.

Wibbs

nesf wrote:

While I agree that a lot of our problems regarding overweight and obese people come from a lack of exercise and a lack of self control, I find the "facts" presented here to be amusing.

Amusing or not and while I do agree with you regarding bigger people in the past, the fact is that there were far fewer overweight and even less obese people in the past. The US is a prime example. Look at any movie of a street/beach scene from the 50s and compare it to today. No comparison. Harrods of London have records of clothes sizes going back to the 19th century and they show an increase, especially marked in the last 30yrs. Women in particular have gotten taller with bigger breasts and waists.

nesf

dublindude wrote:

Yes, maybe you have some medical issue but it has to be combined with excessive eating. You cannot get fat without eating too much, or at least, living a highly sedentary (sp?) lifestyle.

Yes you can actually mate. Easiest example: certain medications can drastically alter a person's metabolism and cause heavy weight gain in people who otherwise have normal lifestyles.

I agree that for most of the obese/overweight people that it's a case of eating and lack of exercise but it simply isn't the case that it's that way for every one of them.