Anyone else not go broke here?

NickyOD

.5/1 6 handed on Prima.

I have $126 at the table. The Villain in this hand has just sat down with $100.

I limp on the button with 89 suited. SB completes and the BB raises to $4. I call. SB folds.

Flop with 7 T A rainbown. BB checks and I take a free card.

Turn is a jack.

He bets $4 I raise to $16, he min reraises to $32 and I go all in. He calls with KQ.

Thoughts?

Tipperarymike

could have done different, no expert on cash games though except at giving money away in them.:D You have no read on the villian so it was hard to avoid esp given the rainbow flop and as you both took the free card it would have been hard to think he was chasing a higher straight than you were. As with all these things the only change you could have made was see the $32 bet as it didnt look like he was going to be put off by another raise, but then thats easy to type with 20/20 hindsight

NickyOD

Tipperarymike wrote:

could have done different, no expert on cash games though except at giving money away in them.:D You have no read on the villian so it was hard to avoid esp given the rainbow flop and as you both took the free card it would have been hard to think he was chasing a higher straight than you were. As with all these things the only change you could have made was see the $32 bet as it didnt look like he was going to be put off by another raise, but then thats easy to type with 20/20 hindsight

I was obviously worried about KQ but I actually put him on Aces or Jacks which is why I wanted to get his chips in early, becuase a lot of river cards kill my action.

Hectorjelly

When he min raises you on the turn he has KQ probably 95% of the time.

Tipperarymike

for it to sound critical there Nicky, I was thinking along your lines there with an inclination to the jacks more than the aces. It was just a bitch that what made you really made him

NickyOD

Hectorjelly wrote:

When he min raises you on the turn he has KQ probably 95% of the time.

You're right. The preflop raise threw out of the BB me though.

RoundTower

Hectorjelly wrote:

When he min raises you on the turn he has KQ probably 95% of the time.

Is this true? I go broke here anyway, even with $200.

I don't think $32 is a min raise on the internet, it would be $28.

Hectorjelly

RoundTower wrote:

Is this true? I go broke here anyway, even with $200.

I don't think $32 is a min raise on the internet, it would be $28.

On vc anyway if someone bets $30 then a min raise will be $60. At this level in my experience a min raise on the turn is nearly always the nuts. There is a small chance he has AAA JJJ but its unlikely.

Marq

the turn-minraise sets of alarm bells in my head. I'm unlikely to fold the turn, but If he puts in a big bet on the river I would fold.

I think you should have bet the flop. This isn't results-oriented thinking, it makes the hand a whole lot easier to play.

The Troll

Marq wrote:

the turn-minraise sets of alarm bells in my head. I'm unlikely to fold the turn, but If he puts in a big bet on the river I would fold.

I think you should have bet the flop. This isn't results-oriented thinking, it makes the hand a whole lot easier to play.

I agree. I don't think he'd have called a bet on the flop unless he had an A or a J. Woud've been a maniac if he'd called with nothing other than a gutshot draw.

After seeing the turn, i think it's a near impossible fold. I understand what marq says here about the milking min reraise, but equally i find that good players jam here to maximise their gain, knowing that the opp has a big hand as well.

In answer to your question, id say yes I go broke most of the time here.

Shortstack

I only go broke if he calls my flop bet which you should have made. betting a draw from position gives you two chances to win and usually if you hit your draw after betting it then it is well disguised and you are more likely to get paid in full.

However checking like you did, I probably go broke too calling myself a fish instead of the above when I call him a fish

padser

The way i see it you cant fold to the $32 raise. if you flat call call there will be about $70 in pot. He will almost def bet his final $65 odd into that giving you 2-1 pot odds to call. So I dont see how you could avoid going bust. :cool:

Marq

If you're 90% sure that you are behind then 2-1 odds are pretty poor. If you bet the flop you'll have a much better measure of whether you are behind.

AmarilloFats

RoundTower wrote:

Is this true? I go broke here anyway, even with $200.

I go broke here too..Maybe I consider folding with deeper stacks and against good villain.
I think you'll be shown Top pair 2 pair and sets here often enough..I know I am.

NickyOD

I'm not so sure betting this flop is so autmoatic. Given the action with his raise out of the BB and checking the ace on the flop, its far too easy for me to get check raised here with AK/AQ/AA/ maybe TT. I'm going to get very little out of him if he has QQ/KK or he might not even fold them. I have to call if he check raises me and he can just take the pot away from me on the turn. If I take a free card I might see 2 cards a lot cheaper. Most players at this level cant fold sets or even TPTK so I can still get paid well if I catch up. Of course all that is irrelevent now since he had nothing like what I thought he had. :rolleyes:

RoundTower

Hectorjelly wrote:

On vc anyway if someone bets $30 then a min raise will be $60. At this level in my experience a min raise on the turn is nearly always the nuts. There is a small chance he has AAA JJJ but its unlikely.

If someone bets 4 and is raised to 16, they can raise to 28 on VC.

Tackle

I don't see how you could get away from this hand in a raised heads up pot. He could've done the same with AA or JJ, or even AT/TT(if he was bad enough). I think long term it's -EV to fold here.

padser

RoundTower wrote:

If someone bets 4 and is raised to 16, they can raise to 28 on VC.

I think 32? 16 has to be doubled.

Hectorjelly

padser wrote:

I think 32? 16 has to be doubled.

This is me raising the minimum repeatadly

Board cards [2d 2c 5s]
Mell63 checked.
Hectorjelly checked.
Nick_L bet 48
Mell63 called 48
Hectorjelly called 48 and raised 48
Nick_L called 48 and raised 48
Mell63 folded.
Hectorjelly called 48 and raised 48
Nick_L called 48
Dealing turn.

Hectorjelly

Tackle wrote:

I don't see how you could get away from this hand in a raised heads up pot. He could've done the same with AA or JJ, or even AT/TT(if he was bad enough). I think long term it's -EV to fold here.

I dont think this is true. If you accept that he either has AAA JJJ or KQ then you can work it out. First of all against KQ you are drawing dead so any money you put in the pot you arent getting back. If he has a set he will still win 23% of the time. Its also much more likely for him to have KQ as there are 16 combinations of KQ, but only 6 of AAA/JJJ. And the way he played the hand, especially the min raise on the turn I find is nearly always the nuts, not just a great hand.

Tackle

Hmmm, I suppose when you compare 16 possibilities to 6 it does make it look like KQ.