2 Depressing Hands - Surely no other way to play them?

The Troll

Both situations were $1/$2 NL cash games on VC.

1st situation, on the BB. Playing 6 handed. Dealt A7s. 2 limps, SB folds, i raise to $10. Both limpers call. Flop comes 779. I bet $20. 1st limper folds and 2nd raises all-in for $195. 2nd player is tight aggressive and I have him down as a good player in my notes. As i see it, there's no other play here other than to call.

2nd situation, dealt pocket 9s on the button. I raise to $10. Folded to the BB who smooth calls. Flop comes 455. BB checks. I bet $15. He calls. Turn is a 9. He pushes for $220. I call.

Could you fold either of those even with a good read? As is ee it, there's only 1 hand in each situation that beats you, based on the prelop calls.

bohsman

I dont like your out of position raise with A7 other than that theres no real way I can see of getting away from them especially as its tribeca 1/2NL

2nd one youve done nothing wrong, if he has quads or hits overhouse on the river think long term, you cant fold

Norwich Fan Rob

i really dont like your pre flop raise out of pos with A7, thats asking for trouble, but post flop, u cant get away from this. (if the ace comes, and someones called this raise, u could be in trouble (and he will only call a bet if u are beat), if the ace doesnt come, continuation bet and hope hes missed, neither situation has u in great nick)

2nd one, again i dont like the pre flop raise, but again, theres no way u can get away from this. (with middle pp's i prefer as many in the pot as possible, as if u hit trips u can win a larger pot, and if u dont hit trips, theres usually overcards and u have to bin it anyway)



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bohsman

Norwich Fan Rob wrote:

2nd one, again i dont like the pre flop raise, but again, theres no way u can get away from this. (with middle pp's i prefer as many in the pot as possible, as if u hit trips u can win a larger pot, and if u dont hit trips, theres usually overcards and u have to bin it anyway)]

I disagree, shorthanded holdem you can raise on the button with any two cards and the continuation bet on the flop should take it down

NickyOD

Also $10 is an overraise if you're first to enter the pot.

The Troll

NickyOD wrote:

Also $10 is an overraise if you're first to enter the pot.

For me, my standard raise is 4xBB. occasionally, I add an extra BB for every caller. Situation 1 it was a stupid move in an attempt to buy the blinds, which wouldn't have been very lucrative anyway.

I didn't say that in both sitautions I had an extremely good table image and my raises and continuation bets were all receiving alot of respect.

Anyway, hand 1, i called, he turned over 99 for a house.

Hand 2, he turned over 55 for quads

Perhaps if he'd pushed on the flop in situation 2 i might have considered folding, putting him on a better overpair or A5s

I'd cashed in the 10k the night before, so i wasn't overly annoyed. I don't think i could've folded either of the hands.

RasTa

Im suprised your man pushed in for all his chips with the quads

gosplan

Can't understand the villan pushing in either situation?

Situation 1: you've represented a stronger hand then A7 but the most he can put you on is two outs to beat his full house? Maybe he was trying to make it look like a semi bluff or something?

Situation 2: At very best he can put you on one out, again why push??

TacT

I would have folded that first hand in a heartbeat. Ok you have ace kicker but if you have the guy labelled as tight/aggressive and he's reraising you all-in, you have to know he's got that boat, don't you? Tight, aggressive and/or good players don't reraise you all-in unless they know they're getting paid off and it's going to be big.

On the second hand, you have to call and hope he made the smaller boat on the flop and possibly slow played it or has trips/overpair. Damn unlucky there!

careca

TacT wrote:

I would have folded that first hand in a heartbeat. Ok you have ace kicker but if you have the guy labelled as tight/aggressive and he's reraising you all-in, you have to know he's got that boat, don't you? Tight, aggressive and/or good players don't reraise you all-in unless they know they're getting paid off and it's going to be big.

I agree with others that the preflop raise was poor with A7 but there is no way you could fold this hand 'in a heartbeat'. I don't care if your notes say this is the tightest player in history, now that you have got yourself in this trouble you have to call. There is any number of hands that you could be up against that you have beaten. If the other player had the fourth 7 he would make exactly the same player, regardless of his kicker.

The Troll

careca wrote:

I agree with others that the preflop raise was poor with A7 but there is no way you could fold this hand 'in a heartbeat'. I don't care if your notes say this is the tightest player in history, now that you have got yourself in this trouble you have to call. There is any number of hands that you could be up against that you have beaten. If the other player had the fourth 7 he would make exactly the same player, regardless of his kicker.

I don't see how it could possibly be folded ina heartbeat. I'm beating every hand other than 79, 99 and A7 on this board. Calling my raise preflop suggests he's got some kind of hand, so I immediately ruled out 79. I alos ruled out A7/K7/x7 as this wouldve been a loose call for him preflop.

I put him on an overpair in the range JJ-AA.

I don't think anyone can fold this hand.

Marq

Hand 1: Call. It's borderline, but there are far too many hands that he could be pushing that you're ahead of for you to fold.

Hand 2: Post this in the bad beat sticky - there is absolutely no question that this is a call, and that you were simply unlucky to hit your nine on the turn.

Samba

agree with others that the preflop raise was poor with A7 but there is no way you could fold this hand 'in a heartbeat'. I don't care if your notes say this is the tightest player in history, now that you have got yourself in this trouble you have to call. There is any number of hands that you could be up against that you have beaten. If the other player had the fourth 7 he would make exactly the same player, regardless of his kicker.

The ability to read a player and make correct monster folds is one aspect of poker that seperates good players from mediocre players imo.

I would not fold this in a heartbeat but it would certainly cross my mind I would have to ponder on this one for as long as possible before taking any action.

It's like saying every time you raise with AA you should just ram jam your stack in there regardless of the flop, what if you are good enough to read each individual situation and have a good idea when your AA is good or bad?

You will experience less variance and you will be saving alot of dead money.

I'll take Andy Blacks monster QQ fold at the WSOP final table as a perfect example.

How many players would have stuck their stack in on that 10 high flop?

Im not saying this is an easy fold, it is a very difficult one but if you can hone your skills to recognise these danger situations it can be very beneficial to your game.

Against weak opposition i will call every time as you most likely have them out kicked but against a respected and good player, you must at the very least consider folding as an option, do not simply dismisss folding here.