Leinster Club Hurling Final James Stephens v UCD

kilkennycat2004

The great Tipp man was on KCLR Monday night.
Seems to have been a bit like Milwall the way they were looked upon in the 2004 dublin c'ship. "nobody likes us & we dont care we are Milwall etc...
Says they only have 3 players that appeared in 2004 all ireland senior hurling c'ship.
Should be a good contest in Portlaoise Sunday.
Anyway come on the Village.

DUB

Come on the village is right!

kilkennycat2004

Stephens silenced the college but it was a real close encounter in the end. Looked almost home at half-time with a 1-10 to 0-03 lead but in fairness the fitness of UCD showed in the second-half.
The game itself was fairly scrappy with almost as many rugby scrums as lansdowne the previous day.
Another fine display from the new KK great white hope Eoin Larkin, roll on 2005 for him in the black & amber. Elsewhere Stephens were tired but they have been out 9 of the last 10 sunday's.
According to the match programme UCD had 20 subs & indeed used 41 players to win dublin c'ship.
The curtain raiser was a junior match between the dublin & laois county champions. Hardly any of the supporters or indeed players of the dublin side waited for the senior game. Says it all re dublin hurling & what they think of UCD winning same.

DUB

Who won the junior match as a matter of interest? There is plenty of anti-UCD feeling alright it gets a bit much at times, they were beaten during the summer a couple of times, but 41 players seems a bit crazy?

Well done to the Village! Who do they meet next and when exactly?

cruiserweight

Interesting from rte.ie

No offer of replay from James Stephens

Tuesday, November 30 2004 9:56
New Leinster hurling champions, James Stephens, will not be offering a replay of the Leinster final to UCD.

The Kilkenny side won the match by a point, but TG4's video evidence clearly illustrated that one of the James Stephens' points was wide.

The ball struck the post, above the head of an umpire, and went wide, and despite UCD protests, a point was awarded.

Despite the fact that the game would have ended in a draw if the point hadn't been awarded, James Stephens secretary, Mick Moore, ruled out the possibility of a replay.

"The officials were appointed, the match was played and the result should stand," he said.

He had seen the TV replay, but pointed out that James Stephens had suffered similar disappointments down through the years - especially in the county final replay of 1996, when a similar event occurred and they lost the match by one point.

DUB

babs was on the radio looking for a replay last night, aparently he says they had a point waved wide as well. he would say that of course!

EKRIUQ

As much as I listen to Babs ( I am from Tipperary ) he talking through his arse if he thinks Stephens are going to give a replay, I didn't see the game but lisented to it on the Radio and I think the rescult should stand. U.C.D. as an amalgamated team should'nt be in it in the first place.

cournioni

Sign of a sore loser in fairness. The decision was made to give the point so he should just accept that, he's taking away the credit from James Stephens performance. Which shouldn't be done in public at all in the good spirit of the game.

It was a bad call by the umpires though.

Waylander

Well if it was not a point he has a fair point. Intercounty championship matches have been replayed for similar before. They only lost by a point so he should not have been a loser in the first place.

DUB

I havent seen it but aparently babs has a case! there are three points up for debate! the Village arent having any of it anyway to thats that! I'd be a little miffed if i had cash on it. [come on portlaoise!]

BonmahonHammers

if they re real sportsmen they ll give UCD a replay

kilkennycat2004

DUB wrote:

Who won the junior match as a matter of interest? There is plenty of anti-UCD feeling alright it gets a bit much at times, they were beaten during the summer a couple of times, but 41 players seems a bit crazy?
Well done to the Village! Who do they meet next and when exactly?

The laois club beat the dub team by about 6 points Dub.
Stephens play O'Donovan Rossa on february 13th in the semi final. Toomevara v Athenry in the other one.

DUB

yea watched toom beat cnoc sion, great comeback. should be some game against athenry. plenty of time for a replay then, you think they'll go for it? I'm no fan of UCD being in the CLUB championship but it sounds like they have a case.

Danno

They should replay as a gesture of sportsmanship, but UCD should not be allowed enter after this year as they are an amalgamated team.

AthAnRi

I agree, I don't think it's right to allow colleges play in the Club championships. One of UCD's players is from Portumna and played for Portumna in the Galway Co Final, What would happen if Portumna made it to the All Ireland final and so did UCD? Who would he choose? Would he recieve an All Ireland winners and runners up medals?

DUB

I think the guy who scored the winner the other day for the village played for them earlier in the championship! :eek:

Waylander

The ref's report did not mention anything about contentious points, and James Stephens have said they will not offer a replay. I would have hoped for better from them but its not to be. Looks like the semi finals lineup is finalised. Whatever your feelings on UCD\C\G entering the championship, I do not like this kind of thing happening, I am disappointed that James Stephens were not big enough sportsmen to give UCD the second chance that they merited.

Danno

They are Kilkenny after all

AthAnRi

Can't see a replay being handed out to UCD. Replays like that only happen when the winning team agree to a rematch. It's not going to happen this time because not only do James Stephens wanna win, I think the majority of club hurlers in the Country don't wanna see a college win a club competition.

The Athenry and Toomevara match will be interesting. Good few county players past and present on both teams. Hoping for an Athenry win and a nice trip to Croker in Paddys Day. The last time Athenry got there we had to play the final on Easter Monday thanks to the Foot and Mouth crap. Will be a tough one to call. Fully expect James Stephens to be in the final.

Waylander

Unfortunately I agree, probably unlikely to have a replay. I think this is wrong because I do not think this decision should be made any different for UCD then it should if it were any other club, it is after all setting a precedent that will most likely be followed in the future at some stage. I think the UCD\G\C arguement is a seperate arguement and should not really have an impact on this one. Of course politics is not that easily seperated from the game so it won't happen that way.

stevemac

I'm curious about why District teams can't take part in provincial compeitions and Colleges can.

With the district team there taking players from a number of clubs in a certain area, and the colleges are getting whatever players they can/want from anywhere.



Someone said something about 41 players before, is that how many players they have used? or did i miss something?

DUB

thats the thing, maybe they should not be allowed progress beyond the county final? that way 'boden could had a game against portlaoise, which could have been a good match.

yea they used 41 players in winning Dublin and geting to the provincial final aparently.

kilkennycat2004

From S Indo 05/12/2004
POINT IN QUESTION
Sunday December 5th 2004
SHOULD James Stephens of Kilkenny have agreed to grant UCD a refixture because a point in the 20th minute was clearly wide?
Seems the ridiculous arguments played out all over the place last week, that would have opened many cans of worms, are not supported by 4 prominent Munster GAA heads.
GER LOUGHNANE
Former Clare manager

"I think this debate is a complete bottle of smoke from UCD. James Stephens were dead right not to agree to a replay. You play to the score in every game. We are talking about an incident in the 20th minute of the game and there was a lot more hurling to be done afterwards.

When you consider the speed and height the ball is moving at, there are always going to be occasional misjudgments but you accept that as part of the game.

"I don't think video evidence can be admissible once the game is over. The result has to stand."

EAMONN CORCORAN
Tipperary senior player

"For a player, it's a tough one to call. If you win a game it would be asking a lot to go back and play it again because of an umpiring mistake. UCD are gutted but these things are part and parcel of the game.

"If it was the last point of the game they might have a case but they had plenty of time to recover from the error. Mistakes happen in every sport.

"I know that if I was a James Stephens player there is no way I would contemplate a replay."

WILLIE BARRETT
Former inter-county referee

"As referees our job is to adjudicate on the day and what happens afterwards in the boardroom is another matter altogether.

"The point in question was a wide ball but the timing is everything. The score came early in the game and do you discount all the other action in the game because of that incident? Maybe if it had been the last puck of the game you could make a case for a refixture.

"I think the GAA should be looking to see whether any technology can be developed that would give 100 per cent accuracy in disputed calls. We should be looking for assistance that will help natural justice to prevail."

JUSTIN McCARTHY
Waterford manager

"It would be very hard in fairness on James Stephens to ask them to play the game again. I think if you put proper netting behind the goals in all games it would make it easier for umpires to make the right call 99 per cent of the time.

"The whole question of video evidence being used is a difficult one. You would have to have it on the spot and how practical would that be in hurling?"

AthAnRi

It would be very unfair on James Stephens to have to go and replay a match that they feel they have already won. Plus I feel it's part and parcel of the game we know and love. What would we talk about on boards on a Monday morning if every decision made in a match , however heartbreaking, was correct.

Waylander

I can't help thinking that if Ballyboden had got through instead of UCD, alot people out there would be sitting on the other side of the fence. I am not pointing fingers at any posters here, more at correspondants and pundits, alot of whom would be against the likes of UCD being allowed to enter sides in the championship in the first place.

uberwolf

what about fricking lasers?


here's my product idea!! create a virtual net of lasers or motion detectors to assist the umpires... Ice hockey has a beeper thing which I'm not sure how it works but maybe something similar would be of assistance. Tennis as well (although they've had a lot of difficulty with it)

klong

There was talk before of a system that used radar that was being developed by a university (could well have been UCD!)

Theres a similar system in place in cricket afaik

AthAnRi

Waylander wrote:

I can't help thinking that if Ballyboden had got through instead of UCD, alot people out there would be sitting on the other side of the fence. I am not pointing fingers at any posters here, more at correspondants and pundits, alot of whom would be against the likes of UCD being allowed to enter sides in the championship in the first place.

You may be right Waylander, but I remember a few years ago a similar thing happened in the Club Semi final between Athenry and Dora Barefield. And a number of experts were of the same opinion as they are in this incident. Being an Athenry man it was a bitter pill to swallow but even then I didn't want to replay the match under such circumstances. It was much sweeter beating the Banner boys a year later in the final.

The laser thing is certainly an Idea and would help eradicate such incidents from the game.

DUB

except whent he laser malfunctions and gets it wrong, then there'd be a load of money down the toilet and the same problem :rolleyes:

AthAnRi

Maybe Lasers or what ever the hell they use, might not be a foolproof Idea but they could use them in conjunction with an umpire, like in tennis, and if an Umpire is 100% sure the ball is wide then they could overrule the point.

But your right dub it would be a pretty expensive experiment.

uberwolf

you could probably set it up to be removable/transferable so that like big bike races when you need it there's a photofinish at teh side of the road which is whisked away again to be used elsewhere. Anyway none of us are going to make it

stevemac

actually heard a more practical if slighly stupid looking idea somewhere.

Put up a second net to cover the points.

Obviously wouldn't be able to handle the balls that go over the top of the posts but it would be a relatively cheap way to go.


Personally think it might look a bit stupid/weird.

kilkennycat2004

stevemac wrote:

Put up a second net to cover the points. .

Better option that one.
We have a new issue now for umpires with these 2 point sideline cuts btw. Apparently if any defender gets his stick or any part of his body to it its back as a one pointer. Just waiting for the first "did it go over straight off or was their a touch scenario?".

Captain Corelli

Did anyone of you hear about the wager Babs put down before the start of the season? seemingly he had about E700 to win E15,000. If UCD had beaten James Stephens' they would have been up against Toomevara; a team Babs knows well. A major upset wouldn't have been beyond them. It kinda puts hie post-match in perspective...