Case for Unfair Dismissal

joe.

Any input appreciated

I worked in a shop/petrol station. Today i went in to get my wages and was told that i was being laid off. I was told it was because of an incident at weekeng. i was serving behind counter and customer complained that i wouldn't turn pump on. i said you have to pay before you get the petrol and he demanded i turn it on. i repeated i wouldn't until he paid. he started shouting and giving abuse saying how he was going to get me sacked and that i should of come out and told him. he carried on shouting and cursing and i told him to f**k off and an assh**e.

i knew straight away i shouldn't have done this. But i was sacked without my side of events being heard and haven't had a proper final written warning. i'm wondering what my rights are here people.

thanks

joe.

Any input appreciated

I worked in a shop/petrol station. Today i went in to get my wages and was told that i was being laid off. I was told it was because of an incident at weekeng. i was serving behind counter and customer complained that i wouldn't turn pump on. i said you have to pay before you get the petrol and he demanded i turn it on. i repeated i wouldn't until he paid. he started shouting and giving abuse saying how he was going to get me sacked and that i should of come out and told him. he carried on shouting and cursing and i told him to f**k off and an assh**e.

i knew straight away i shouldn't have done this. But i was sacked without my side of events being heard and haven't had a proper final written warning. i'm wondering what my rights are here people.

thanks

445279.ie

Was it company policy that petrol had to be paid for first? Were you given that instruction from your employer?

BTW sorry about the job

joe.

yes company policy. after 8pm. it was 8.30 at this stage.there is signs out on all petrol pumps hence why i didn't go out.
not too bothered bout losing the job. its just the way management dealt with it. i've been working there 5 years. near 6. find a new one easy enough. really pissed at way i was treated though

445279.ie

You should try and find out if you were fired for not turning on the pumps or for cursing at the customer.

ED-209

How long have you been working for the company and what type of employment is it ?? ie: permanent / temp / contract ???

steveland?

Were you busy behind the counter (like was the place packed)? If you were very busy you could say it was because you were stressed and you couldn't deal with him. Also were you the only one working? Cos if you were the only one on and it was busy you couldn't have gone out to explain anything.

The guy sounds like an ass so fair play to ya...


Can't tell ya how many customers I've told to f**k off in all the time I've worked in the pub. Only on busy days though.

I remember one time when there was one of the huge matches on in Croke Park and some guy was complaining i had given him a Heineken shandy instead of a Heineken. I hadn't served ANY shandies that day so I knew he was full of s**t so I explained i hadn't given any shandies and i wasn't gonna replace it so he started getting real pissed off and i just told him to f**k off and that was all he was getting...

He asked to see the manager who I had to get from the lounge and he was real p*ssed off about being called in so he told him to f**k off and get out...


I did get a glass thrown at me though by some guy for something similar to this once .....

Nuttzz

telling the customer to f*** off is grounds for dismissal

Lump

What does your contract say? Most places will give you three warnings and a final dismissal.

John

frodi

Get on to dept of labour, even if you did tell him to f off your employer still has to follow proper procedure, verbal warning, writen warning then dismissal. Instant dismissal can only be for a stated gross offence. check your employee handbook (providing you were given one in the first place)

joe.

i've had my share of verbal warnings. not one written warning. nothing in my contract says anything about gross misconduct. i understand i should not of f offed the customer but i'm annoyed at way i was treated. dept of labor. how would i contact them?

seamus

Nuttzz wrote:

telling the customer to f*** off is grounds for dismissal

I agree.

You work(ed) in the service industry. That means that the customer is the only thing that's important. The public are assholes. Complete pricks. But that's the kind of thing you sign on for. You either put up with their ****e, or you find a different job, it's that simple.

You cursing at the customer is potentially damaging to your employer's business. If you did it once, who's to say you won't do it again? How much business will you cost him? I'm not a solicitor, but if it was me, I'd side with your employer.

I sympathise, and there's no greater feeling than telling some complete asshole to f*ck off, but you can't complain when you get fired for it. You say you received multiple warnings already? You'll be laughed out of any unfair dismissal hearing. You have a poor work record, you shout abuse at a customer and you're obviously going to get fired.

For the record, petrol stations that insist thet you pay for the petrol first are a pain in the ass, particularly when they don't tell you until you spend 2 minutes pissing about with the pump, and then they shout across the forecourt at you.
Also particularly annoying when you drive a bike and you never only put €10 or €20 in, you fill it up, so you don't know how much it's going to be. I always make a point of getting back on the bike and going somewhere else when they say it's prepay only.
It's a blatant excuse for petrol stations to try skimp on money by having only one guy in attendance for 2 or 3 hours towards the end of the night.

No excuse to act like an asshole though.

joe.

thanks folks for replies

nah i'm kind of happy to be not working there any more. been working there for 5 years. just pissed at way it was dealt with. my side of story wasn't even asked for. i told a customer to f**k off. shouldn't have. end of story. lesson in life methinks. don't work for jerks. feel let down by the lot of them. helped them out loads. i think d fact d customer in question knew the owner was an influence. life is life is life.

BOLLOX

Lump

That translates like this for me "I realised I was in the wrong, didn't have a contract and now I know I have no comeback!"

John

mad m

5 years and not even a finger pointed at you saying please dont curse at a customer as far as iknow you have to get written confirmation of your behaviour no matter what it is....id say bring the pig to unfair dismissal.

I was unfairly dismissed like you and i let it go,only to find out afterwards that i was entitled to redundacy plus 2 years wages if id of brought employer to unfair dismissal's court(in adelaide road) before 6 months time gap was up.I eventually got redundacy for 7 years of a total of wait fot it(2500euro)paid for not from old employer(he claimed bankruptcy) but got paided from soical insurance fund(that we all pay for from our taxes,prsi etc.) so basically your getting money back you've paided.

bring employer to court......you have nothing to lose.get all your pay slips and bank statements together since you were employed there and they will hear you side of case.....i went before a sort of jury of 5 people plus my old employer was present to tell them what happened....

goodluck with it

joe.

Has Anyone Been In The Situation Of Unfair Dismissals(court)?

mad m

well for me it was the same place as were i got my redundacy...i think they do all claims like this.....redundacy,unfair dismissal....etc...

joe.

who would i report it to in the case of an employer having several people emplyed "not going through the books". who is the person that needs to know this?

joe.

who would i report it to in the case of an employer having several people emplyed "not going through the books". who is the person that needs to know this?

frodi

for employment rights dept of trade, enterprise & employment 1890 201 615
erinfo@entemp.ie

for dodging paye/prsi 01 8277500

Spalk0

SteveD wrote:

Were you busy behind the counter (like was the place packed)? If you were very busy you could say it was because you were stressed and you couldn't deal with him. Also were you the only one working? Cos if you were the only one on and it was busy you couldn't have gone out to explain anything.

The guy sounds like an ass so fair play to ya...


Can't tell ya how many customers I've told to f**k off in all the time I've worked in the pub. Only on busy days though.

I remember one time when there was one of the huge matches on in Croke Park and some guy was complaining i had given him a Heineken shandy instead of a Heineken. I hadn't served ANY shandies that day so I knew he was full of s**t so I explained i hadn't given any shandies and i wasn't gonna replace it so he started getting real pissed off and i just told him to f**k off and that was all he was getting...

He asked to see the manager who I had to get from the lounge and he was real p*ssed off about being called in so he told him to f**k off and get out...


I did get a glass thrown at me though by some guy for something similar to this once .....

Know what you mean chief!I deal with customers now but i used to work in pubs for a couple of years and they are the worst customer ever!Good thing is you dont have to be polite all the time with them!Theyre out of line you tell them to get the F*ck out!There are countless times ive had to pysically throw someone out the door for being an a**hole!

I also got strunk on the head with an ashtray before which nearly busted the side of my forehead open which got me so angry i punched him a couple of times and kicked him out!My boss saw the whole thing and just said "fair play to ya lad, now go out the back and get Louise to help ya fix that up!"

PH01

Trigger! wrote:

...now go out the back and get Louise to help ya fix that up!"

Good old Louise. She's always handy in these situations

Spalk0

PH01 wrote:

Good old Louise. She's always handy in these situations

Oh she is! ....did some pretty neat patching up work aswell!Mind you, my head hurt like hell and i eventually went home!hehe

embee

You ever see the film Meet The Parents? It has the line "You just can't say bomb on a plane". That is the case here. You are working with members of the public, face to face, and at the end of the day, you just can't tell them to **** off and call them an asshole without there being pretty dire consequences. The customer is always right, no matter what, even if technically he is wrong. Sure, you may have a case for unfair dismissal, but imo its a pretty shaky one. When you are working in an environment where you are dealing with customers face to face, it is pretty much a given that you don't swear at them and abuse them, no matter how much they do it to you. You didn't get a contract saying that it was expected of you to be polite and courteous and not to swear at customers? Its basic cop on, tbh. There are always grounds for immediate dismissal (gross misconduct) and swearing at and abusing a customer.... well, those are some pretty good grounds. If there are any monies outstanding owed to you, chase those up, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

Blub2k4

I think that almost anywhere swearing at a customer would count as gross misconduct and allow for immediate dismissal witout any warnings.

Our man in Havana

Blub2k4 wrote:

I think that almost anywhere swearing at a customer would count as gross misconduct and allow for immediate dismissal witout any warnings.

Were there any witnesses to this? Why would the word of a "customer" (well he didnt buy anything) be taken above that of a long standing employee?

I would deffo go after him for unfair dissmissal as you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

embee

Bond-007 wrote:

Were there any witnesses to this? Why would the word of a customer be taken above that of a long standing employee?

I would deffo go after him for unfair dissmissal as you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

"The customer is always right".

Why ask if there were any witnesses? He has admitted that he did say those things to the customer, so why turn around and use the line "Well, ye have no proof" or something similar? Thats pretty dishonest, and if he went to court and was found to be lying, the consequences would be worse.

He hasn't a leg to stand on. He swore at and abused a customer, and that is grounds for immediate dismissal.

Spalk0

The customer is allways right is a load of bull!

Ive worked with customers for nearly 8 years and im only 21 and one thing i know is of course to be polite but its allways to an extent, especially in the likes of barwork and other jobs!If a customer is irate and cursing at me and the polite doesnt work i have no problem telling them exactly where to go and i'll do it time and time again!Allthough besides being behind the bar, i have never cursed at them but telling them off or "to get out!".....no problem whatsoever and belive as an employee i have a right as a last straw!

embee

Trigger! wrote:

The customer is allways right is a load of bull!

Ive worked with customers for nearly 8 years and im only 21 and one thing i know is of course to be polite but its allways to an extent, especially in the likes of barwork and other jobs!If a customer is irate and cursing at me and the polite doesnt work i have no problem telling them exactly where to go and i'll do it time and time again!Allthough besides being behind the bar, i have never cursed at them but telling them off or "to get out!".....no problem whatsoever and belive as an employee i have a right as a last straw!

Its not a load of bull at all. When I say "The customer is always right" I wasn't saying that they technically were always correct, but the idea is that you aren't supposed to make a customer think he/she is in the wrong, because its a negative experience, and he/she won't use your service again and worse still, will tell other potential customers not to go there. The customer is effectively paying your wages, and it isnt too much to expect that you be courteous and polite to them. Okay, if they are being arsey or irate, you can calmly tell them to get lost or whatever, but you just don't tell them to **** off and call them an asshole.

Thats the original posters big mistake. If he had dealt with the customer without resorting to swearing and abuse, he may not have been fired, but he did. It just is not acceptable to swear at customers and abuse them, end of story.

Mr Burns

Trigger! wrote:

The customer is allways right is a load of bull!

Ive worked with customers for nearly 8 years and im only 21 and one thing i know is of course to be polite but its allways to an extent, especially in the likes of barwork and other jobs!If a customer is irate and cursing at me and the polite doesnt work i have no problem telling them exactly where to go and i'll do it time and time again!Allthough besides being behind the bar, i have never cursed at them but telling them off or "to get out!".....no problem whatsoever and belive as an employee i have a right as a last straw!

Where I work in a call centre, The agent will always be belived before a customer. Unless the call was recorded or said agent was stupid enough to admit to it. It frequently happens that a caller will say that "mary was rude and swore at me" most of the time they are taking the p*ss out of the company. Hence the customer is not always right.

Spalk0

Ok i agree that abusing the customer is not right!but its like i said, if a customer is persistently out of line, i have no problem telling them off!

and "they pay your wages? is a bad line!does that mean a gaurd is gonna have to be polite to everyone they arrest because they pay taxes?does that mean, since im a civil servant, that i have to be polite to everyone since their taxes apparently pay for my wages?the only time ive smore and abused a customer, even physically, was when i worked in a bar, and believe me, i had damn good reason to!but i see your point more clearly now!

lastly, if you have a blue coloured rep thingy does that mean someone gave you a bad rep?

Blub2k4

Bond-007 wrote:

Were there any witnesses to this? Why would the word of a "customer" (well he didnt buy anything) be taken above that of a long standing employee?

I would deffo go after him for unfair dissmissal as you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

He has already admitted to it. There ARE grounds for gross misconduct taken at face value, if he starts to lie etc when persuing it then naturally events will be skewed.

Blub2k4

Trigger! wrote:

Ok i agree that abusing the customer is not right!but its like i said, if a customer is persistently out of line, i have no problem telling them off!

and "they pay your wages? is a bad line!does that mean a gaurd is gonna have to be polite to everyone they arrest because they pay taxes?does that mean, since im a civil servant, that i have to be polite to everyone since their taxes apparently pay for my wages?the only time ive smore and abused a customer, even physically, was when i worked in a bar, and believe me, i had damn good reason to!but i see your point more clearly now!

lastly, if you have a blue coloured rep thingy does that mean someone gave you a bad rep?

You work in a pub with drink etc involved it is not exactly the same situation, you have a need to be a disciplinarian sometimes when working with drunken customers.


Why shouldn't guards be polite to people they arrest, they do not punish, they are not judges they are supposed to capture and pass on for judgement.

Civil service is not the same either, I would say they should be polite to customers as we do indeed as taxpayers pay their wages, whether a civil servant would EVER be disciplined for ANYTHING short of hitting their supervisor or managers is another thing altogether.

Spalk0

Is a gaurd cuffing a person, harshly putting their hands behind their back polite?no.....and why should it be?their apparent "wage payer" has been well out of line and the line of duty calls for it!thats my point, if politely trying to calm an irate customer does not work and they continue screaming abuse at you is telling them where to go wrong?not in my book and it never will be! i think it is wrong to abuse a customer bar 1 or 2 different circumstances i was never arguing any differently!
Bottom line is telling a customer where to go is allways the last straw!I agree politeness is allways first but with certain customers you can only be polite to an extent!

jor el

I think the problem here is that the customer was a friend of the owner, and he got bmarley sacked. This is deffinitely unfair. Sure, it was wrong to tell the a$$hole to fuk off but that's not a sackable offence.

What you should do, if you already haven't, is get the reason for you being sacked in writing. You should have gotten that anyway but if you didn't, get it now. Then take him to court and get the redundancy or payment your entitled to. If the employer is found guilty of unfair dismissal, I think you can get your job back, but who'd want that. You should go for a cash settlement.

Maybe go to a solicitor and check your rights. Or maybe even simpler again is to approach your former boss and threaten legal action unless he gives you a fair settlement.

Whatever you do, don't let him away with it, because it seems as though he was completely in the wrong.

pickarooney

If he didn't give you a letter, turn up for work as though he had said nothing. Bit weird, but if you don't have confirmation of your dismissal...

WhiteWashMan

threads merged

WhiteWashMan

ok, read what embee said.
thats where its at.

i am quite sure the company has full right to dismiss you on the spot for gross misconduct,and i would call telling a customer to fck off a gross misconduct.

heres a tip in life. you will meet a lot of arseholes. youre going to be a sad person if you lose the head everytime you meet one, and believe it or not, most of them will not be your customers.
grow up and act like a responsible human being.

i sure as hell wouldnt hire you with an attitude like that, and i sure as hell woudl fire you on the spot for that sort of behaviour towards a client of mine.

it does not matter if the person was best friends with the owner, if he was his brother, or if he was sleeping with him. you are representing your company, and if you are rude to a customer, then thats gross misconduct in my book.

learn from it, and move on.