Advice on new computer

feylya

I'm looking to get a new computer for Christmas but I need some recommendations. I need:

CPU
Motherboard
RAM
Graphics card
Hard Drives
DVD writer
Case
Power Supply
Screen

I'll be keeping my keyboard, mouse, speakers and sound card. I'd prefer to go with a P4 and ATI. I have about €1000 to spend. Can anyone recommend me the best components for the money?

Also, I'll be selling my current machine. Spec:

P4b 2.4 @ 2.88
512 Single chip Value ram
MSI 865PE Neo2 mobo
Abit Surrillo GeForce 5600 Ultra 128meg
120GB Western Digital 8mb cache IDE hdd
30GB Maxtor Hdd
Dvd Drive
Cd Rewriter
QTec case
17" Dell CRT

How much do you think it's worth?

Cheers.

Diabolus

I'd say get what you need off komplett.ie
As for what you need...

CPU - AMD (its got to beeeeeeeeee perfect! Oh yeah :P)
Motherboard - Nforce (newest ones r class)
RAM - Depends on money and timings but 1 gig of DDR/DDR2
Graphics card - ATI (9800 Pro or if u gots the money x800 XT)
Hard Drives - 120/250 gig 8mb cache
DVD writer - Dual Layer 8X or 16X
Case - Thermaltake (My fav. but there are slick cases out there)
Power Supply - ooh just stay away from the obvious useless ones
Screen - 19" minimum @ 1280 x 1024

Again some of these might be a bit cheap or pricy but i suggest u build one off komplett and see how u fare on prices.

feylya

As I said, I'd far rather go down the Intel path. I have an idea of specs but I just don't know where the cheapest components can be found. Things like what RAM make and timings, what graphics card manufacturer, PSU manufacturers, things like that.

secret_squirrel

1 I'd go for an AMD they am de best for gamining atm.
2 Get a 90nm Winchester Core Athlon XP 3000/3200 + they overclock to around 3500+ like a dream
3 Wait a month or so until the nforce4 and other A64 mobos supporting pci express are out.
4 Just got an antec sonata case in piano black and it is the best finished case I have ever had - glossy black looks like a dream and is very quiet as well. Plus the internal layout is 1st rate - all bays are quick release etc. More connectors inside than you can shake a stick at.

feylya

I am not solely after a gaming machine, I'll be using it for 3d graphics, DVD ripping, things a P4 are more suited to. I don't want to get into a debate here. I am just not interested in AMD's.

Thanks for the replies so far. Anyone else?

greglo23

have a look at the specs on this !! http://ireland.aldi.com/

feylya

Holy crap! What graphics card is it though?

Creamy Goodness

on the subject of the Ati cards.

all of the manufactuers build upon the ati reference cards so they all are practicially the same, and it's just a customer preference on what make the card is.

i myself like saphire as they ain't the cheapest (powercolor normally are) and they ain't the dearest (Asus normally is)

feylya

Aye, I've heard good things about Sapphire but terrible things about PowerColour...

Bass.exe

feylya wrote:

I am not solely after a gaming machine, I'll be using it for 3d graphics, DVD ripping, things a P4 are more suited to. I don't want to get into a debate here. I am just not interested in AMD's.

Ok, you don't want to get into a debate, but I'll just point out something:
3d Graphics? AMD beats Intel there too. (And this will mostly be rendered by your GFX card)
DVD Ripping? That'll likely be limited by your DVD Drive, not your CPU.
Intel chips are only better than AMD when it comes to complex number calculations. And seriously, do you really need to plot the orbits of distant celestial bodies? :P

Go for P4 if you really want, the advantage there is DDR2 RAM.

Creamy Goodness

Bass.exe wrote:

Ok, you don't want to get into a debate, but I'll just point out something:
3d Graphics? AMD beats Intel there too. (And this will mostly be rendered by your GFX card)
DVD Ripping? That'll likely be limited by your DVD Drive, not your CPU.
Intel chips are only better than AMD when it comes to complex number calculations. And seriously, do you really need to plot the orbits of distant celestial bodies? :P

Go for P4 if you really want, the advantage there is DDR2 RAM.

it's well known that P4's are better at DVD ripping.

if the man wants P4 let him have it... :P

feylya

Aye, I just feel more comfortable with P4's. Don't ask me why. I'm already betraying nVidia by going to ATI, no need to alienate Intel too

Bass.exe

Cremo wrote:

it's well known that P4's are better at DVD ripping.

if the man wants P4 let him have it... :P

I never said they weren't

feylya, I wouldn't say you're betraying nVidia... if it makes you feel better, you can use this opportunity as "getting back at them" for me... damn nVidia broke my computer.... stupid new ForceWare Drivers... delete MY context menus will ya! Grrrrrrr...
Anyway, getting seriously off-topic.

feylya

Heres an idea of what I'd like:

Cooler Master Cavalier 3 case Black Aluminium (Without PSU)
Fortron/Source Powersupply ATX-400W OEM 120mm, SATA Special Edition
NEC DVD recorder ND-3500A IDE Black Bulk,DVD+R/+RW/DVD-R/-RW (Dual layer)
Intel Pentium 4 530 3.0 GHz Boxed Socket LGA775, 1MB cache
Thermaltake Silent 775 Heat CPU-Cooler Socket 775 (21db)
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Atlantis PRO 128MB AGP, ATI,"Ultimate Edition", Full-Retail
Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB S-ATA 8MB cache 10000RPM
Western Digital Caviar 160GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM X2
Abit AG8-3rd Eye Mainboard for S775 I915P,SATA,ATX,GbLAN,Dual-DDR,PCI-Ex16
Corsair Value S. PC4200 DDR2 512MB KIT 2 x 32Meg x 64, CL4, 533MHz, 240-pin
Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor

Total: 1350

I know that RAM isn't great so I'd appreciate other options open to me. Cheers

Bass.exe

Yup, could do with more RAM, and maybe of higher quality. Where have you sourced these items?

GFX Card could be better.
Do you really need the 10000rpm HDD? Could save a few quid there, although it might be useful for your intended DVD-ripping.

Other than that, looks ok.

feylya

That's all from Komplett. More and better RAM will be quite expensive. I was thinking of getting rid of the Raptor and getting two 200gb drives instead and putting those in Raid 0.

The GFX is perfectly fine tbh. It's fully DX9 compliant which will do me for two years til my next upgrade.

Bass.exe

Uh, I should read more carefully. I saw "9600" for some peculiar reason. Disregard previous post.

Aye, non-generic RAM is expensive. Unless you have a particular intrest in high-end gaming, bottom of the barrel RAM should suffice, but 1gb would be my recommendation.

feylya

Cooler Master Cavalier 3 case Black Aluminium (Without PSU)
Fortron/Source Powersupply ATX-400W OEM 120mm, SATA Special Edition
NEC DVD recorder ND-3500A IDE Black Bulk,DVD+R/+RW/DVD-R/-RW (Dual layer)
Intel Pentium 4 530 3.0 GHz Boxed Socket LGA775, 1MB cache
Thermaltake Silent 775 Heat CPU-Cooler Socket 775 (21db)
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Atlantis PRO 128MB AGP, ATI,"Ultimate Edition", Full-Retail
Abit AG8-3rd Eye Mainboard for S775 I915P,SATA,ATX,GbLAN,Dual-DDR,PCI-Ex16
Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor
Western Digital Caviar 200GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM x2

512Mb DDR RAM PC3200 OCZ Rev. 3 x2

Total €1437 + €30 Delivery

About €100-200 too much.

RicardoSmith

Cremo wrote:

on the subject of the Ati cards.

all of the manufactuers build upon the ati reference cards so they all are practicially the same, and it's just a customer preference on what make the card is.

i myself like saphire as they ain't the cheapest (powercolor normally are) and they ain't the dearest (Asus normally is)

They used to use different ram, ram speeds and core speeds. So not all cards were the same even though they had the same name, ie "Radeon 9700Pro" etc. Has this changed? Used to be you have to check the spec to make sure. PowerColor are were known for this which is why their cards were cheaper.

Bass.exe

Oh, you do realise that these two pieces are incompatible?

Abit AG8-3rd Eye Mainboard for S775 I915P,SATA,ATX,GbLAN,Dual-DDR,PCI-Ex16

and

Sapphire Radeon 9800 Atlantis PRO 128MB AGP, ATI,"Ultimate Edition", Full-Retail



Mobo is PCI-E, and GFX card is AGP

Edit: Ricardo, you're right. Different makers use different chips, thus different performance results. There's not MUCH of a difference, as they have to reach certain standards before they get an ATI sticker, but it limits their overclockability.

MisterAnarchy

Why exactly do you need a new computer ?
The old one seems fine to me.

feylya

Bass.exe wrote:

Oh, you do realise that these two pieces are incompatible?

Abit AG8-3rd Eye Mainboard for S775 I915P,SATA,ATX,GbLAN,Dual-DDR,PCI-Ex16

and

Sapphire Radeon 9800 Atlantis PRO 128MB AGP, ATI,"Ultimate Edition", Full-Retail
Mobo is PCI-E, and GFX card is AGP

You are most correct sir. Many thanks.

I'm sick of not having DX9 capabilities. My first idea was merely to upgrade but people want to buy my current computer which is why I've included the second question. Anyone know what it's worth?

feylya

Updated again:

Cooler Master Cavalier 3 case Black Aluminium (Without PSU)
Fortron/Source Powersupply ATX-400W OEM 120mm, SATA Special Edition
NEC DVD recorder ND-3500A IDE Black Bulk,DVD+R/+RW/DVD-R/-RW (Dual layer)
Intel Pentium 4 530 3.0 GHz Boxed Socket LGA775, 1MB cache
Thermaltake Silent 775 Heat CPU-Cooler Socket 775 (21db)
Sapphire Radeon X700PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express,Tv-Out, DVI-I, Full-Retail
Abit AG8-3rd Eye Mainboard for S775 I915P,SATA,ATX,GbLAN,Dual-DDR,PCI-Ex16
Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor
Western Digital Caviar 200GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM x2

512Mb DDR2-533 DDR DIMM OCZ Value Series Dual Channel kit

Total = E1400

secret_squirrel

TBH honest I dont thinks there's anything near €1400 worth of performance difference between your old pc and your new one - I assume you're going to at least mildly overclock the new one too?

I'd be tempted just to do a mobo chip memory and GFX transplant....

And even most ATI fans would admit that the best price/performance ratio is a little towards Nvidia at the moment.

feylya

I was thinking that but I've never been overly happy with the performance of this computer. It's not a gaming machine, there's no hyperthreading, the ram is terrible, I need more storage and I definately need a new screen. That's why I'm interested in getting your opinions on what you think I should charge for this computer.

Bass.exe

I'll admit it. nVidia have better price/performance ratios.
But nVidia are pure evil. They deleted my context menus! It took me fricken ages to get them back.

feylya

That X700pro 256 is a powerful little thing for the price...

The_Conductor

feylya wrote:

Also, I'll be selling my current machine. Spec:

P4b 2.4 @ 2.88
512 Single chip Value ram
MSI 865PE Neo2 mobo
Abit Surrillo GeForce 5600 Ultra 128meg
120GB Western Digital 8mb cache IDE hdd
30GB Maxtor Hdd
Dvd Drive
Cd Rewriter
QTec case
17" Dell CRT

How much do you think it's worth?

Cheers.

I know its a nice machine- even if its a CRT and no DVD Writer.
I think a realistic price would be 400-450, and buy and sell would be your best outlet for maximising possible income from it.
In all honesty- the component cost is worth a lot more than the combined machine- which is not a bad little beastie at all.

I'd suggest getting a 17" TFT (about 500), a DVD Writer (about 80) and a gig of reasonably priced but overclockable memory (say 150). For about 700 you'd be updated once again, and have a few excess components (your CRT, the value RAM, the CD Writer (keep the DVD Rom)) etc. to sell.

It would be very difficult to justify the outlay that the proposed upgrade you are thinking of would cost- over and above the worth of your present system....

S.

feylya

A tft isn't justifiable (or wanted tbh), the cpu is annoying me with it's lack of HT, I need a new graphics card definately, definately more storage and a better PSU.

As for the computer, it's actually a 21st so technically it's not my own money but I want to get the best performance-price ratio obviously.

davmigil

What the PC is worth and what you will get for it are two different things!

Why not just upgrade current rig and sell off discarded parts:
Another 512Mb Ram (or replace current ram with higher spec)
MoBo supports P4 478 800Mhz so why not get a 3-3.2 P4 Prescott 1Mb
(or an Athlon 64 and new MoBo for not much more than the Prescott alone)
GFX 9800Pro or 6600GT
Nice big hard drive with 8Mb cache
Shiny new Lian-Li case to make you feel PC is new
A lot of change left over from €1400!

Bass.exe

Heh, i was just looking at the Prescotts. I'd advise an upgrade too.

But... Lian Li case? Kinda... ugly.... (all but 1 of them)

davmigil

Okay, maybe not the Lian-Li! I like them for their lightness and modesty

secret_squirrel

You should also have a browse at the sub-800 gaming machine thread if you havent already too. see here

feylya

davmigil wrote:

What the PC is worth and what you will get for it are two different things!

Why not just upgrade current rig and sell off discarded parts:
Another 512Mb Ram (or replace current ram with higher spec)
MoBo supports P4 478 800Mhz so why not get a 3-3.2 P4 Prescott 1Mb
(or an Athlon 64 and new MoBo for not much more than the Prescott alone)
GFX 9800Pro or 6600GT
Nice big hard drive with 8Mb cache
Shiny new Lian-Li case to make you feel PC is new
A lot of change left over from €1400!

Chieftec BX Miditower, Black and silver 360W PSU
Gainward GeForce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 AGP, "Ultra/1960 XP" ViVo/DVI, Retail
Intel Pentium 4 3.2 GHz Boxed PC800 Socket PGA478, 1MB cache, Prescott
Western Digital Caviar 250GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM
Corsair TWINX1024-3200XL DDR-DIMM 1024MB Kit w/two matched CMX512-3200XL DIMMs
Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor

Total: 1153

Now that's just a quick click and grab but there's not a hell of a lot of change left over. Where as if I get a new computer, I sell my current one for about €500 and have an incredible brand new computer for €900...

secret_squirrel

Also you might consider a bigger hard drive - some of the new 7200rpm big sata drives with native sata command queuing are meant to be almost as quick as raptors...

Think seagate 7200.8 's and Maxtor Diamond Max 9+'s have been the ones mentioned but dont quote me on that.

feylya

TBH, I have 2 200gig WD's on that list and they'll be in Raid 0. That's plenty fast for me

davmigil

feylya wrote:

Chieftec BX Miditower, Black and silver 360W PSU
Gainward GeForce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 AGP, "Ultra/1960 XP" ViVo/DVI, Retail
Intel Pentium 4 3.2 GHz Boxed PC800 Socket PGA478, 1MB cache, Prescott
Western Digital Caviar 250GB S-ATA 8MB cache 7200RPM
Corsair TWINX1024-3200XL DDR-DIMM 1024MB Kit w/two matched CMX512-3200XL DIMMs
Samsung 17" CRT Syncmaster 793S TCO99 Monitor

Total: 1153

Now that's just a quick click and grab but there's not a hell of a lot of change left over. Where as if I get a new computer, I sell my current one for about €500 and have an incredible brand new computer for €900...

Well I was thinking more like:

Intel P4 Prescott 3.0
WD Caviar 200Gb 8Mb
2x Cosair Value 3200 512Mb
XFX 6600GT
And keeping your existing monitor

Total: 682

Oh, and a case of your choice (doesn't have to be Lian-Li, apparently :rolleyes: )

Would still leave you with enough change for a good night out in Dublin (or Praque or Paris!)

Creamy Goodness

no, not nVidia they're evil.

feylya

Perhaps you haven't read this thread entirely but I need to get rid of this monitor. It's seriously on it's very last legs.

Add a case to that, you're looking at €800. €100 less than a new machine. That just doesn't make sense. Plus less hard drive space and worse performace.

davmigil

Well you didn't mention the monitor was on its last legs, only that it was a Dell 17 CRT and you wanted a new one...Won't help the resale value now will it

I wouldn't go for that Samsung though, max display is 1280 x 1024 / 65 Hz , which means you will be running it at a lower res (unless you don't mind headaches you will be lowering it to get 75-100Hz).

Don't get me wrong, if you can find somebody to sell your old PC to (I guess for that price somebody who will be probably looking for a complete PC with keyboard/mouse etc.) and get your upgrade - great. You will invariably take a massive depreciation hit when you are selling though, so I wouldn't factor it into the equation until you sell!!

Best of luck with your endeavor,

Dave

feylya

TBH, I believe I have a buyer.

A house mate has that screen and it's lovely. I rarely run above 1152 x 864 so that gives me plenty of leeway. A keyboard and mouse can be picked up for <€50 these days so I probably could off load it.