You ever get a hard time for reading Sci Fi?

giftgrub

Ive been reading science fiction since back in the day...i read all my old mans stuff...old Asimov and Clarke paperbacks from the 60's and i have to say i have always loved the genre.

Dont get me wrong i read all types of stuff but sci-fi is my passion.

What i have noticed is that sometimes people look kind of turn their noses up at my choice of book....fark them i say. but has anyone else ever got the same vibe?

elivsvonchiaing

Yeah, You'll get this everwhere. Snobbery isn't just a where-do-you-live, what car do you drive thing - its a mindset. Got slagged for raving about Arthur C. Got lectured about what was alleged in German media about him, still think even if he doesn't write 100% of his own books he's a rightious dude! :cool:

Was reading I think "the hammer of God" about 7 -8 years ago while commuting. This Sri-Lankan guy approaches me and raves about Arthur C! He seems to be a major celebrity there.

ixoy

*nods* Older generations, such as my mum, seem to think of sci-fi as "childish" because it's "not real". Since it requires, often, more imagination or higher concepts than a contemporary novel it's seen often as less valid. Which is bull - there's far more work and brains put often into sci-fi than a more humdrum crime thriller

*Wraps himself in anorak* But we'll ignore them. Onward soldiers!

c0y0te

Yup.... I get a lot of grief from my wife when I read sci-fi. I read lots of different things, depending on my mood, but have always loved sci-fi and fantasy.

My wife tends to lean towards serious reading, and usually has three books on the go at the same time. Of the three, its a safe bet that two are heavy tomes of knowledge (history, biography, art, classics etc) and one is probably frivolous (pg woodhouse esque).

Still - the key message here as far as I'm concerned is that it doesn't matter what you are reading, as long as you are reading. For me its a bit like the cinema; I know I can rent the films, I can even buy them on DVD - but its just not the same as sitting in the cinema, with popcorn in hand reliving my childhood every single time I see a good flick.

Reading is the same. I've been reading since I was tiny - and I don't ever see a time when reading from some screen will replace the sheer tactile pleasure and smell of a new book, and the process of reading it a few chapters at a time, dropping it to do something else and then returning to it later (hours, days, weeks etc.) and immersing oneself within whatever fiction is the 'book de jour'.

I don't have kids - but if I did, I would stress the importance of reading right from the get go. So, it matters not if the rest of the world scorns you for reading sci-fi, because (whether they admit it or not) the same people turning their noses up at you for your selection of genre will also celebrate your right to read in the first place.

c0y0te

I used to always get a hard time off my relations. My parents were fine about it, my dad is always reading sci fi and its from him I got my love of it.

Ive always believed that it was because many of my relations were and still are narrow minded, shallow people. The worst were people my own age, reading Arthur C Clarke at school when you are 16 is not advised. Assholes would take the book off me and throw it around the place.

c0y0te

Darko....

... shouldn't you also have "Pull the Strings!, Pull the Strings!!" in your sig? :rolleyes:

c0y0te

Manach

My fellow belivers, a similar tale to ye're own. For me it was an English teacher denigrating Sci-fiction was pulp.
I think that reading sci-fiction gives one the mental flexiblity to deal with might happen in the future and better cope with changing tech. and social mores.

c0y0te

c0y0te wrote:

Darko....

... shouldn't you also have "Pull the Strings!, Pull the Strings!!" in your sig? :rolleyes:

c0y0te

My sig quote is from Bride of the Monster, pull the strings, pull the strings is from Glenn or Glenda.

lazygit

Not to hijack your thread, but can anyone recommend any good space operas.?
i loved the The Night's Dawn Triligoy and Pandoras Star by Peter F. Hamilton

ixoy

lazygit wrote:

Not to hijack your thread, but can anyone recommend any good space operas.?
i loved the The Night's Dawn Triligoy and Pandoras Star by Peter F. Hamilton

The Gap series by Stephen Donaldson. Superb quintet. Buy, read, enjoy.

moridin

Yea, Agreed... it's very Epic altogether

Fenster

Always, but I really could care less what people think about my reading choices!

Lazygit, go here, a few posts down. There's a good selecton of quality sci-fi there.

lazygit

ixoy wrote:

The Gap series by Stephen Donaldson. Superb quintet. Buy, read, enjoy.

Well i just finished reading the Real Story and i have to say what a load of tripe!
Tell me the rest of the series gets better!!!

ixoy

lazygit wrote:

Well i just finished reading the Real Story and i have to say what a load of tripe!
Tell me the rest of the series gets better!!!

It gets better. A lot better. The scale gets bigger and the tone gets darker as well as a more involved plot line.

monkeyfudge

It's gotten so bad that I have to hide a Philip K. Dick anthology between the pages of a copy of Penthouse just so the checkout girl at Eason's doesn't give me a hard time....

Seriously, I've never really had any problems in reading Science Fiction and I went to a fairly rough school too...

But in college my creative writing tutor used to go mad as pretty much anything I wrote invariably turned out to be science fiction in some way. He thought I was a really good writer, but couldn't figure out why I would waste my time with such things, when he wanted me to write about gangsters.

Even in the pieces I would write that weren't science fiction I would drop in some references. I remember I wrote a romance/mystery set in Woking and dropped in references to the War of the Worlds.

Undergod

monkeyfudge wrote:

I remember I wrote a romance/mystery set in Woking and dropped in references to the War of the Worlds.

That's fantastic.
I tend to have the same problem, all my stories end up getting cyberpunk, even if I try to write fantasy it gets into deep philosophy and the meaning of information and a dark, underworld tone.

I don't really get a hard time in my school for reading sci-fi, because even though it's pretty rough everyone knows I don't give a damn if any thinks bad of me. It's all about attitude.

David Stewart

For some reason people seem to think science fiction is for children. The late - and sadly missed - Bob Shaw used to tell a great story about how he was at a science fiction convention somewhere in the midlands of England in the 1960s. The convention was sharing the hotel with a Cowboys and Indians Convention - I kid you not - and on the Sunday evening after both conventions had ended, the members of both were in the bar. One of the members of the C&I convention was sitting with a group from the SF convention - which included Bob - who were talking about interplanetary travel and other SF topics. (Now you have to imagine the next bit in Bob's voice with his Norn Iron accent). "And he was sitting there in his cowboy outfit, with his replica guns, and his chaps and spurs with his mouth open, wondering why we hadn't grown up. Like he had!"

Undergod

I like cowboys too! And pirates.

...

...

How about sci-fi with technopirates, and spacecow-boys, herding spacecattle from one system to the next?

...

And we wonder why people don't take us seriously!

David Stewart

You've just described Firefly.

Undergod

Whoever wrote that should be ashamed.

c0y0te

I have always argued that good science fiction or fantasy (note the word GOOD there!!) is the hardest thing of all to write, because with other normal fiction the worlds do not need to be defined in such a way as to be believable and accepted by the reader. The characters need work in both scenarios, but in sci-fi/fantasy entire worlds need definition to place the characters within.

For example - in a normal fiction take a sentance like "Fred, pausing to smell his prise roses on the way out of his house, greeted his neighbour and just managed to catch his usual bus to work". Almost 100% of people reading this do not need to understand what house, bus, rose and neighbour are. That is not the case in sci-fi high-concept scenarios where everything around the character may be completely new and invented compared to what the reader is used to, and therefore needs to be defined.

In sci-fi entire concepts need to be defined, worlds with rules and constraints, definitions of species or traits, definition of technologies or scientific behaviour and all entities have their relationships which need to be spelled out... all of which needs to 'feel' right before the characters are placed into the stories, otherwise it just doesn't work. The reader can be left in the dark about lots of things, and letting imagination do the rest will work to some extent.. but a lot of these items need definition within the story to give the reader a hook to hold on to, some frame of reference to use when (virtually) walking through the world(s) created.

To me that's a hell of a challenge, and having tried it a few times myself, I take my hat off to anyone who is successful at it. I'm not knocking other genre writers at all here, just pointing out that really good sci-fi/fantasy takes a lot of work to make it believable, and therefore good. In essence all good writing takes a hell of a lot of work, but sci-fi shouldn't be knocked by those who don't understand this.

just my 2 cents worth!

c0y0te

Undergod

Don't know if I agre with you.
I don't really consider sci-fi to be a genre in most cases, I think it's usually a setting. For example, the Star Wars story is in fact a fairytale (except updated with a strong female character), Stargate SG-1 is a military adventure, Arthur C. Clarke wrote books about solving crimes and exploration. A lot of these could have the settings changed without affecting the story that much. It's a little more difficult, but still possible, to do the same with cyberpunk.

I think sci-fi and fantasy worlds can be over-defined, and when that happens, it loses its sense of reality. I can't stand reading an author's two-page description of the fictional civilization our heroes have just arrived in. I don't want that much information. For one thing it interrupts the flow of storytelling, for another if I was travelling to Persia in the 14th century, I wouldn't know anything about it. It distants us from the characters, we lose some the of the sense of mystery and we have all this new information to assimilate.

On the other hand, I agree that unfamiliar concepts is the reason people find science fiction hard to enjoy. I grew up watching Star Trek with my older siblings, I loved science fiction cartoons (still do). But for a lot of peple didn't and there is definitely a snobbery in the Literature Community at large against science fiction, despite the fact authors like Iain Banks is one of the most talented authors around (this is why his fiction and sf are published under different names).
I guess my point is overall agreeing with c0y0te, creating a balanced and accessible sf world is very difficult.

David Stewart

Interesting comment about snobbery. Terry Pratchett gave a Guest of Honour speech many years ago at a convention I was attending. If I recall correctly, one of the points he made was he was under pressure from the literati to refer to his books as 'magic realism' I think it was so that the literati could then admit that they read his books.

But I think the snobbery goes both ways. Fans tend to look down on non-SF readers. Even the term we/they use 'Mundane' reflects that.

Undergod

But I think the snobbery goes both ways. Fans tend to look down on non-SF readers. Even the term we/they use 'Mundane' reflects that.

I'd agree. I'm perfectly happy to read any kind of novel, as long as it's interesting or well written. If a political thriller takes my attention, I'll read it. I love historical novels, and as I mentioned somewhere earlier, pirates! Alexandre Dumas is one of my favourite authors at the moment.

But a lot of sf fans I know can't read or watch stuff like that, because just like the way I grew up with sf, that means their mind is just as closed as non-sf readers, to political thrillers, or 'The three musketeers' or whatever.

Try and muddle your way through that confused mess of grammar... sorry.

c0y0te

I guess the key point here folks is that reading (whatever genre, at whatever level and for whatever reasons) is a good thing, and should be encouraged. There is no room for snobbery in something like this in my opinion. It's just good, full stop.

Any detraction from that basic principle just to engage in one-up-manship or snobbery because of reading habits, genres or favourite authors is a mere sideshow. I don't care what people read, just as long as they continue to read.

I have my favourite "types" of books and they can have their favourites.. there is plenty of room for all of us

c0y0te

ps as a footnote....

Reading Fuels Imagination. Imagination is one of the key ingredients in pushing for change, in creating better worlds and in improving ourselves as individuals and as a species.

simu

Nah, I've never really gotten a hard time for that. People might think it's a bit strange seeing me with sci-fi because at other times they've seen me reading so-called high brow stuff or books in other languages - I don't really care.

Undergod

We've wasted a lot of resources agreeing with each other for the last ten posts! Fantastic.

fozzle

I've gotten a bit of hassle for reading sci-fi or fantasy in my time too, apparantly it's only for children :rolleyes: he same people get confused when they see me reading classics or factual stuff then, because "I thought you only read kid's books?!" Urgh, the only kind of books I've never been able to read are the Maeve Binchy type stuff, I just fing them dull and unimaginativ, and oh-so predictable, like a soap opera in a book. But apparantly I'm narrow minded. Pfft, I've tried to read such apparantly wonderful books as The Scarlet Feather and failed to get past page 30 (very rare for me), most of the people who've slagged me for my reading choice have never even tried to read something that wasn't on the "bestsellers" rack in the book shop. (ever notice how there are always brand new books on those, how are they bestsellers if they've only been out a few days? ). Anyway, I realise that it sounds like I'm being just as snobby but I'm not, honest, I just think that if people have read from a few "genres" they are less likely to deride other people's choices, maybe schools should be encouraged to provide a wider range of reading material.

Was sitting on the train across from a guy reading Robert Jordans A Crown of Swords last weekend, 'twas nice to see! (I was reading Pratchett). Some auld biddy in the next row gave the two books (and us) some awful nasty looks though, apparntly real books don't have colourdy covers!

Praetorian

ixoy wrote:

The Gap series by Stephen Donaldson. Superb quintet. Buy, read, enjoy.

The Gap series is my favourite scifi series! Truely amazing!

As I was reading back through the thread it reminded me of the English teacher I had when I was in first year of secondary school. I was reading Tolkien, King, Lovecraft, Jordan, ect, while everyone else in the class was still reading Roald Dahl and having difficulty doing so. For a test we had to write about the book we were reading, I wrote about The Shining, and the teacher rang my parents to tell them I was lieing in my tests. My dad said that I was reading The Shining for the second time and that I had a reading age of a 26 year old and told him get a life. The teacher never forgot this and would take great pleasure in making fun of me and what I read. If only Id been reading a porn magazine my life would have been a lot easier.

The problem with most normal people is that they have a limited imagination. They like things simple and easy.
They want something about an alcaholic cop given one last shot at proving himself, tormented by visions of his dead wife whom he failed to save. Im not dissing those type of books, some authors Leerpy, Connelly, Rankin do the genre very well but most are just formulaic and cliched.

Undergod

Deleted User wrote:

...For a test we had to write about the book we were reading, I wrote about The Shining, and the teacher rang my parents to tell them I was lieing in my tests...

Yeah, in second year I wrote about Midnight's Children. Re-wrote in my JCs to let the examiner I'm no fool with the aul' english, and maybe to scare them just a little...

Once people think a genre is for children, it's hard to convert them. One scumbag slagged us off forreading a comic in school, so we showed him the beginning of Chapter 12 of watchmen (Madison Square Garden full, literally, of bleeding corpses, literally stacked on top of each other) and he just point-blank refused to agree with us...

c0y0te

Not really sci-fi, but still, similar experience. I was 12 or so (long long time ago) and we had been told to go off for the weekend, and write some pointless short story thingy for the Monday, with the usual 'The long and winding road...' beginning.

So - being me, I decided to do something different. I spent the weekend with my grandparents and asked them about 1916, because I knew they had been on opposite sides of the civil war (they still argued about it until they passed away actually).. and then I wrote this short story about love, betrayal, black and tans, rape, revenge and then some.

It was simplistic, and gory, and everything a 12 year old would want from a story, but when my english teacher reviewed it he marked it down, citing that 'this child should not be writing about things he has no business knowing at this age'. He also cited too much use of 'american cliches' - which of course I didn't even understand at that age.

I was always pissed off at that, becuase I'd spent the time learning about the subject matter (and a great weekend with my grandparents to boot) and really put the effort in, but the teachers snobbery put the boot in. Everyone else in the class had written about escaped lions from the zoo and lost pets etc. I was the only one to turn in something a little different.. but I guess it was a little too different

Amazing really - that was nearly 30 odd years ago and I can still remember the sodding teachers comments . Twas undergods post above which brought it back!

c0y0te

monkeyfudge

I got marked down once for having an alien that came from Tau Ceti.

The teacher said no one has heard of Tau Ceti and that I should have said Mars.... sheesh... aliens from Mars... now THAT'S a cliché!

I once wrote a story about the Cthulhu. Sufficent to say it didnt go down too well and when I protested that I was inspired by H P Lovecraft my teacher said, who?

The narrow mindedness of some people. Why they cant except that more thought goes into sci fi and fantasy than any other genre.

David Stewart

My own English teacher at Inter cert level, professed not to care that I read SF. He just wanted me to broaden my horizons. Well I tried. But after reading 2001: A Space Odyssey and the concepts of alien intervention in human evolution, Hemingway's Old Man and The Sea was simply boring. Or it was when I was 14 years old. That being said though, he did teach me some basics, the foremost of which is the primacy of the story. There's no point in having esoteric scientific concepts, well drawn characters or anything else unless you have a good story to tell.
And as for reading outside the genre, every successful SF writer I have ever met insists that you if you want to be a good SF writer, you have to read outside the genre. You have to read history, historical novels, biographies and so on.

Woden

used to get hassle for star trek in school but i the sci-fi stuff these days doesn't really get mentioned.

most comments are along the lines of "the size of that book you're reading dave" more so then the content (reading the neutronium alchemist atm)

with regards to books i consider myself someone who has read loads but i'm not well read. i rarely pick up anything other then sci-fi/fantasy and i usually have a stack of em that i'm wading through slowly but surely

with regards to the poster the close mindedness of some sci-fi fans to non sci-fi i'd have to put myself in this category sometimes. i find books like political thrillers and the three muskateers wouldn't interest me at all but at the same time i'm open to suggestions on new books that aren't sci-fi i just don't go actively seeking them out.

i find it rare in the people i meet that they are interested in sci fi. i was away during the summer and was packing my books away in a hostel when someone asked "what are you reading" (happeend to be george r.r. martin at the time).

she commented on one of her friends giving her a book with something called "the shrike" in it.

i was all like oooh that dan simmons hyperion cantos its great which lead onto a great conversation about the cantos and then on to philip k dick and such

anyway

/end waffle

data

Karl Hungus

This thread boggles me completely... I can't say I've ever gotten any hassle, or even any comments at all because of my chosen reading material.

Capt'n Midnight

simu wrote:

Nah, I've never really gotten a hard time for that. People might think it's a bit strange seeing me with sci-fi because at other times they've seen me reading so-called high brow stuff or books in other languages - I don't really care.

pfff.. - get some foreign language Sci Fi and see what they say then..

There is a lot of pulp fiction out there, and when someone like Dan Brown gets that sorta treatment well the thing about SciFi or good fantasy is even if you don't like the plot or characters you can enjoy the scenery. Most fiction has to be done in a framework of reality that matches everyday life. It's is so nice to escape to somewhere else, (though I do tire of feist and tolkein clones, more bleedin elves and we'll fix everything with a spell and I've already forgotten the authors name).

Still a lot of invention is used on one hand to build up a coherent world (something some fantasy writers fail to realise) and by others research to depict one that is as accurate as it can be. Whereas normal fiction most of this is skimmed over or done badly.. any way we used to swap books in secondary and that's where lots of Asimovs got borrowed

Undergod

...I really hate all elves...

nesf

I hate all elves too....

To be honest I've never had any hassle about what I read. I like my sci-fi and fantasy, and own alot of both genres but i also read more "serious" books concerning history, politics and philosophy. But on the other hand I have had rasied eyebrows when people see my collection of physics and maths textbooks, I study/studied it in college so I have an excuse, but people seem to find it strange to see such dry books being used for entertainment.

I'd love to say that I'm not snobby when it comes to books, but i have to admit to a feeling of pity whenever I see someone with a large collection of Mill's and Boon, or the like