Advice for certification for novices

phil

Hi,

I'm just back from a holiday in Lanzarote and I completed two basic dives over there and loved it!

There was an Irish instructor over there and he said the next natural step would be to do my open water course.

I'm a complete fresh face to scuba diving, but I'm interested in building up to a qualification that would allow me to dive on my own (yes, with a buddy, but without paying an instructor to dive with me!).

There seems to be a few different types of qualification. The most common I seem to come across is PADI, which seems like the simplest. Irishdivers.com do a 5 day course, which looks great and is something i'm enquiring about already.

What I'd really like is some advice from someone who has experience with these courses. Is this the best route for a complete novice to enter the diving area?

I'm located on the north side of Dublin, so any advice is welcome.

I'm aware of the "Courses" sticky, but I'm looking for more practical advice than a simple list of courses, as to where to go from here and whether or not I'm taking the "right" option (whatever that is in your esteemed opinion!).

Thanks in advance,

Phil.

P.S. the diving school was Manta diving school in Puerto del Carmen, and the dives are at: http://www.manta-diving-lanzarote.com/diving_prices.html ... I did the first "Discover Scuba" one and the second follow-up dive.

Evil Phil

If you're going with PADI you'll need to do the Open Water Diver course first then you'll be qualified to dive, with a buddy, to a depth of 18m. Deeper than that will still require a diving instrucor (or maybe a dive master dunno) until you've passed the Advanced course.

The course requires you to complete 2 confined dives, thats in a pool, and 4 open water dives, thats in the sea/ocean. I won't suggest a dive centre for risk of being accused of favouritism but some of the others may.

Welcome to the Scuba Forum

Scubachick

Hi Phill,
Welcom to the underwater world!

Evil Phill is right about the PADI Open Water Course. The next step is the Advanced Open Water, which would allow you to dive to 40M. However, once you are qualified if you would like to continue diving for fun with PADI you will have to pay for each dive again (boat fees, air fills, equipemnt hire etc).

The other route to do your training is with a club. Most clubs in Ireland are non-profit organisations (unlike PADI). You will need to pay annual fees to the club (for insurance etc), but in general club diving is a lot less costly than paying a professional body. Most of the Irish Clubs are governed by the Irish Underwater Council (CFT- the acrynom is for the irish name!). This council is in turn affiliated and governed by European standards, so your training will be no less thorough than with professional bodies like PADI.

Most CFT Clubs start their trainee courses this time of year in pools around the country. Unfortunately, the CFT website has removed clubs contact details from the web site (www.scubaireland.com) due to spammers. However, I am sure your nearest pool would be able to let you know when the diver training nights are on.

The training is done through the winter, usually one evening a week. Both practical and book learning is involved on the CFT and PADI courses. The CFT course takes longer, as it is more drawn out. The PADI course can be done in a week or over two weekends - but they are full 8 hour days!

Hope this help,

Scubachick

lazygit

Yea i did my PADI over 5 days,,, its quite intensive and you will be wrecked at the end of it...

For me it was
Day 1: Half Day Classroom, Half Day Pool
Day 2: Half Day Classroom, Half Day Pool + FInal Exam
Day 3: 3 Open Water Training Dives ( Its the same stuff as the pool just in the Sea )
Day 4: FInal Training Dive, followed by 3 Open Water Dives and 1 Night Dive
Day 5: Sleep.......

*Edit* By the way.. the water is a hell of a lot colder in Ireland! hehe

Peace

Scubachick wrote:

The next step is the Advanced Open Water, which would allow you to dive to 40M.

The advanced gets you to 30m. The deep diver speciality gets you to 40m.

If you choose to go the PADI route, this actually applies to any route, keep going until at least Rescue Diver.

I found it to be an excellent course in self preservation skills... and ofcourse, depending on your mood at any given time, the ablity to rescue other divers. It really opens your eyes.

seadeuce

What many people are doing nowadays is the basic Open Water with PADI, then they join a club.

Advantages: by doing the OW you get a feel for scuba for minimal input. All gear is supplied, and course takes only a short while. No expenditure for gear means that if it doesn't suit you you haven't a load to sell afterwards.

When you join a club, you can do their crossover lectures, be inducted as a trainee, then follow the normal route to Club Diver.

Advantages: PADI will show you how to dive, CFT will help make you a diver. BIGGGGG difference!

This is because, with a commercial agency, training stops as soon as you cease paying for it. With the club system, all Instruction is voluntary, ongoing throughout year - all questions are answered without vested interests - and there is a continual "follow-up" in the pattern of diving.

Most of our club members have gone by this route, and they never looked back.

Enjoy, and research the club scene before joining - you can always go along to a couple of pool sessions with no obligation.


Seadeuce

Evil Phil

Seaduece makes a good point. Are there other advantages to joining a club Like bulk buying gear etc? Are you, in general, expected to be very active. I'm more active in rock-climbing than I am in scuba but I'd like to bring my scuba participation up to maybe on weekend a month. So I may, MAY join a club and go the CFT route.

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I can see advantages to being qualified with both CFT and PADI. :cool:

bigfeller

I have my Advanced Open Water qualification with Padi (done over 2 holidays in the med) and last year did a CFT course. Much preferred the CFT route (nice club atmosphere, good laugh, not so pressured to get everything done in a couple of days)

Our club offers the 1* course for the same price of club membership for a year - and includes the years membership! Not bad value at all.

EP - most clubs have a weekend away each month (we sure as hell do). Accommodation and dive levy usualls is about 120 (for 4 dives). This does not include alcohol...

Seraphina

yeah i was considering doing an open water padi course, but decided to go the club route. only doing it 2 months but i can already see advantages
1. huge price difference. padi open water courses are in the region of 500e in dublin for a one week course, membership to my club for the year is 180... this includes insurance, equipment, training lectures and constant diving from march throughout the year.
2. everything is not as rushed. the training and lectures cover ALOT more than the padi course (i know because there are padi crossover members who still have to attend most of the lectures) and no one in the club is in it for the money, so they're alot more patient with everyone
3. getting to know people! you cant dive alone, so you need to know people who dive after you qualify. in the club, there are lots of us! (obviously)
4. beer! the club organises loads of great weekends away

Miss Polaris

Not going to go down the PADI vs CMAS CFT etc..route.

But......

CFT are going to do a "PADI" style course for those who do not wish to give up 6 months of their lives before they ever see open water let alone dive.

Stay tuned for a diving company near you I believe it will be done over two full weekends...

I still feel that a PROFESSIONAL instructor is the way to go - i.e someone who is paid to instruct and not teaching on a voluntary basis, someone who has instructional skills....be that whatever system of diving they teach.

seadeuce

I don't believe this thread is about agency-bashing or one-upmanship. It's all about giving a prospective diver knowledge of the range of options open to him.

As to Professional, that word has been marketed globally on such a wide range of goods and services that its credo is questionable, and should be checked out before the purchase - caveat emptor and all that.

With regards to dive instruction, the main difference between professional and voluntary instructors is that the former get paid. I would say that paid instructors are more practised, as they probably do it for a living. But that would not necessarily mean that their style of teaching would be better/worse than their voluntary colleagues.
Each have learned how to impart knowledge through lectures/pool sessions etc.

However, I must point out that the professional is required to work within a defined set of parameters, and should not stray from the syllabus as laid down by the agency.

Commercial agencies promote all that is good in our sport in their syllabi. At times this can leave the student with a less-balanced view of scuba, blissfully unaware of how things can go wrong down there.

A previous poster has already stated preference for a more-inclusive course of instruction for beginners. It may take that bit longer, but in our colder waters that might not be such a bad way to go.

I would still emphasise that the best of both worlds is probably a good introduction for the beginner, where the basic course is done with a commercial agency, followed by a move to CFT if happy with diving. Not only does that satisfy the lust for a quick entry to open water, but it will also give the student an immediate basis for comparison between both systems of training.

Again, this is allowing the would-be diver to make up his/her own mind having first sifted through the merchandise.


Seadeuce

paddywhack

I have only dived via the PADI route so cannot comment on the CFT , CMAS etc. I would say that club wise I have done training in a few and would rate SDW as one of the best. The one in Dun Laoghaire has excellent instrutures but was Oceantec when I was with them, so I don't know who is with them now but the training is very thorough.

What I would add about the various training is watch the basics when diving with a buddy. It is easy to take things for granted. I dived recently with a new buddy and while he was an excellent diver etc, he didn't recognise some of my hand signals nor I recognise his. It was both our faults for not doing a check before hand and while nothing went wrong and it was a great dive (Girl Arlene wreak in Wexford), it could have been a problem.

journeyman

I've been reading this thread with interest.
I completed PADI Open Water in UK waters a few years ago, and have since completed about 12 dives in various balmy places around the world. I'd now like to dive in Irish waters, so would like to learn how to dive in a dry suit, and in general improve my skills.
I was thinking of signing onto a PADI advanced diver course, but after reading this thread, am getting convinced that the CMAS route may be better. Is it possible to transfer PADI open water (and experience of several dives) to a CMAS cert ? e.g. I believe BSAC allow transfer to Ocean Diver - is something similar possible with CMAS ? What is the basic CMAS cert called ?
If I do have to start from scratch again, how long does the course take - i.e. how long before I can expect to be able to dive without an instructor present ? Also, does dry suit diving form part of the basic course, or would it be an add-on course ?
One more question - is CMAS recognised worldwide, like PADI ?

thanks!

journeyman

Peace

journeyman wrote:

Is it possible to transfer PADI open water (and experience of several dives) to a CMAS cert ? e.g. I believe BSAC allow transfer to Ocean Diver - is something similar possible with CMAS ?

Also, does dry suit diving form part of the basic course, or would it be an add-on course ?
One more question - is CMAS recognised worldwide, like PADI ?

I have read on this board in a different thread that a PADI intructor was made to start the training all over again... from the ground up. So be prepared.

In Ireland, CFT is the equivelent of CMAS or whatever the relationship is i'm not 100% but mainly CMAS = CFT (the irish version).

CMAS are recognised worldwide yes... If they aren't its because PADI pump more money into PR. Recognition may have little to do with course content/standard of teaching.

donny

http://www.scubaireland.com/downloads/Forms/Crossover%20Module%20Oct%2002.pdf

is the crossover details

journeyman

Thanks for the information. Does anyone have any recommendations on clubs in the Dun Laoghaire area ?

cheers,

journeyman