New Bin laden video.

Nick_oliveri

There was a "new" Bin laden video aired across the media today. I think its a great coincedence that this happens now, with the election. He was talking about "reasons to attack America, they are still there". So obviously the media dont address these reasons or bother to research them. How he survived without a dialasis machine "in a cave", i dont know.

Linky

halfhead

linky broken

GuanYin

Obvious attempt to influences the election result against Bush, however I fear its a grave miscalculation and may get undecideds to rally round the administration.

Nick_oliveri

Linky fixed, sorry.

TomF

I don't know any more about this video than what I read here, but it seems odd that the U.S. media, currently working very hard to get JF'nK elected, would allow the airing of a video supposedly of OBA saying "Elect Kerry or we'll make America's streets run red with blood". It must be obvious to even frequent posters on this board that this is going to make more Americans vote for Bush!

Even Slick Willy's former spinmeister, Dick Morris, has said the same. See "Why Bush Will Win" at <http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/31249.htm>.

Stark

How he survived without a dialasis machine "in a cave", i dont know.

Maybe he's long dead and they have a stack of previous videos that they release periodically?

GuanYin

Stark wrote:

Maybe he's long dead and they have a stack of previous videos that they release periodically?

Nope, he mentions Kerry as Bush's opponent and Kerry only came foreward as the candidate a few months back. Edwards was the guy everyone thought would be the democratic candidate.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

maybe bin laden wants bush to be re elected? Bush hasn't been doing much to try and catch him, and kerry's saying that he will put the focus on the 'war on terror' back onto bin laden and al qaida.

flogen

It is a bit of a running joke that Bin Laden supports Bush alright!

I don't think he Bin Laden said that the American people should support Kerry though, TomF is just putting words in his mouth. From what I gather he doesn't really pick a side

flogen

mike65

flogen wrote:

From what I gather he doesn't really pick a side

flogen

One capitalist pig-dog infidel is much like another.

Mike.

Duffman

syke wrote:

Obvious attempt to influences the election result against Bush, however I fear its a grave miscalculation and may get undecideds to rally round the administration.

I don't agree. Keeping Bush in the White House for another term is the best thing that Bin Laden could hope for. Perhaps the intended result was for people to rally around the administration?

flogen

mike65 wrote:

One capitalist pig-dog infidel is much like another.

Mike.

exactly!

Reading bits of the transcript, he does criticise bush, but also says that Kerry wouldnt make any difference.

And while I wouldn't believe anything the man says or hints at, I wonder what he thinks Bush is not telling the American people... I'm sure there's a lot, but what is it that would stop him from attacking the US again if it were common knowledge?!

flogen

Paddy20

The title of this thread is misleading ?.. where is the damn Bin Laden video, cause it sure is not here !.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the involvment that bush has with bin ladens family, the money they've pumped into his oil businesses and the pressure he's put on agents not to investigate members of the saudi royale family...

among other things?

PH01

I've just after seeing this on Newsnight and I can tell you my heart goes out to Kerry. This does him no good. He'll probably lose Florida because of it. And a few other swing states to boot. There's no time left to counter act this. It's all over bar the shouting.

If this doesn't win Bush the election I don't know what will.
It plays right into his hands.

mike65

Kerry quick to respond -

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (Reuters) - Democratic presidential contender Sen. John Kerry on Friday vowed to "stop at nothing" to hunt down Osama bin Laden after the al Qaeda leader released a videotape commenting on the U.S. election.

"In response to this tape of Osama bin Laden, let me make it clear, crystal clear, as Americans we are absolutely united in our determination to hunt down and destroy Osama bin Laden and the terrorists," Kerry told reporters on a campaign stop in the hotly contested state of Florida.

"They are barbarians and I will stop at absolutely nothing to hunt down and capture or kill the terrorists wherever they are, whatever it takes.

Mike.

monument

So apprently Bin Laden wants freedom, wants what he sees as his people to be left alone - for the US to stop attacking them and stop supporting other attackers, the 9/11 only happened after their "patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," - quote of a quote from Fox news (see below).


News clipings, as such...

Al-Jazeera shows new Bin Laden tape
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,1339708,00.html

Addressing the American people, he said: "Your security is not in the hands of (Democratic candidate John) Kerry or (President George ) Bush or al-Qaida. Your security is in your own hands ...."

He said "best way to avoid another disaster" was to avoid provoking Arab anger.

"Liberals do not neglect their security, contradicting Bush, who says that we hate freedom," Bin Laden said.

Bin Laden threatens new attacks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3966741.stm

Bin Laden Addresses U.S.
By Associated Press / LA Times
Al Qaeda leader tells America, "Your security is in your own hands."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-102904binladen_wr,0,6680437.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Al-Jazeera airs videotape by bin Laden
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-10-29-bin-laden-tape_x.htm

Bin Laden speech broadcast on Arab TV
http://www.itv.com/news/index_150651.html

"America was hit by God in one of its softest spots. America is full of fear from its north to its south, from its west to its east. Thank God for that"

BIN LADEN THREAT TO US
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1157612,00.html

"Despite entering the fourth year after September 11, Bush is still deceiving you and hiding the truth from you.

"Therefore the reasons are still there to repeat what happened."

Bin Laden: U.S. security depends on policy
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/binladen.tape/index.html

Bin Laden Speaks to America
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

Terror mastermind accuses President Bush of deceiving the American people, takes responsibility for 9/11 on new tape

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Multiple sources told FOX News that the 18-minute videotape is authentic and that it was made recently.

arcadegame2004

Actually I think this could help Kerry as it shows that Bush has not hunted down Bin Laden as he promised to do. He was more interested in grabbing oil for Halliburton in Iraq with 13 times the number of troops he sent to Afghanistan. Small wonder Osama is still alive.

PH01

monument wrote:

So apprently Bin Laden wants freedom,...

Not freedom. It's power what he wants.

PH01

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Actually I think this could help Kerry....

Don't think so. Look at Kerry's response. He's almost saying and calling upon America to rally around the President!
I don't think there is anything now that Kerry can say. It's too late. It's over! Bush has effectively won the election.
There's no time left to turn this around.
Unless...

PH01

I've always thought that people decide the way their going to vote between 7 and 4 days before polling day. And the way the polls have been going in the last few days, the trends have been going Kerry's way. I really believe that.
However, you'll be dambed sure that this video tape is going to be played non stop for the next 62 hours. And there's no telling how this will affect the voters as they go to the polls on Tuesday.
Both campaign teams realise now that they're in unchartered waters. They don't really know how the American public will react. It certainly take the focus off Iraq. And refocuses it back home. And it'll come down to Security. And we all know who is leading the polls in that area.

Watch the polls over the weekend, but it's not looking good for Kerry I'm heart broken to say.

99Dragons

Colour me perverse but I like to consider OBL and the west's dynamics as strikingly similar to Anti deSitter space (AdS) mathematics in a way... and the case of quarks comes to mind in particular. Doubtless such reference appears a little abstruse. Yet upon reading the daily news one comes to the embarrassingly obvious conclusion that as this so-called war continues to be waged in this way much more damage is being rendered than benefit, and in unexpected ways.

Right away perhaps I should say I respect the mathematics I perceive here in a fashion, much as one is astounded at quantum physics upon first blush. Hard to believe, but true, observable and testable. Certainly I do not like what he (OBL et al.) does... any more than I favour the apishly obtuse solutions being pursued by the west. Yet one hopes the leaders may draw from this; q.v.

Let's consider OBL to be like quarks and the west like an atom smashing force. Now the mechanics of the nuclear strong force (of particle physics) have something to teach us. As you press harder on the subatomic particles, quarks, the stronger they push away. They can be made to accelerate according to the strength of the force applied to them (again pardon the oversimplification). The law at that level is inversely proportional to gravity, i.e., the farther away quarks are forced... the stronger the attraction to get back together becomes. Put another way, the further away you have quarks (and leptons) and then push them - just in direct opposition to gravity's force for example and electromagnetism - the stronger the force becomes to being them back to initial positions. This all takes place of course in the drama of hyperspace and particle physics at 10^16 - 10^-18 m (the Calabi-Yau distance).

As below so above. You see the west is attacking flies with artillery. As atom smashing force is applied the stronger the quarkish OBL groups split and return. One has the case of little cells here and there with superterrorists armed with strong crypto communicating. As the force to quell them summarily is applied, they scatter temporarily only to exist stronger, regrouping and finding likeminded militancy seriatim. For as if that weren't enough recall we have something else stoking the process, a catalyst which takes the reaction right into fusion red hot energies - because the call to take up the cause of jihad or whatever bloody else they call it grows as the innocents pile up.

This war calls not for force meeting force but for much subtler action: pre -war planning. Unfortunately we cannot buy that now because the borders have been crossed. We cannot to to the grocer's and buy a basket of understanding at this late date.

And the supercells are rich ones, working through fronts all over the world. The west may succeed in breaking one group into two apparently, and suddenly not only are they back together with the same political will... there are two more cells which grow because more militants take up the call to requite innocent blood being spilled. And those cells grow and so on ( 2^ n so to speak). So... the mathematics reveals that the more we apply the force on innocent collaterals whilst striking in the name of counterterrorism... we find more and more groups taking up the cause against "great Satan". Insanity a la mode.

Were the west to pursue special small units taking on special small uinits ... then they could extract their flesh and the rest of us could go about our merry ways with life I suppose save for the times when one of the cells gets through as they did in 911. The news could say something from time to time like "Another cell behind bars", blandly alongside the Beeb's news with the weather patterns over Newcastle. To wax macabre here at this time of Halloween, it could be rather like Hitchcock quoted in one of his short stories (he did two volumes ... you may recall). The butleresque gentleman is standing quietly there near the fireplace, dapper and all, gently rocking back and forth on his heels, saying, "Tum tum dee dum, I slew him, yes I did, tum tum tee dummm..."

But no, we've call forth the dogs of war, the Black Watch, the yanks have sent in the Marines, and a hundred thousand of people die, and convene upon a relatively stupid dictatorship which could have been taken down by a few special branch operations and filled the gap with some Fleet Street civil servants. I overstate the case here of course but as we speak, the artillery lands upon a city where suspects *may be living (Fallujah). Thousands die there and then sub rosa, via anonymous Internet communications, we are treated to the spectacle of heads being shucked off shoulders like ripe oysters. Again, pardon the macabre reference.

But the numbers don't lie. Before this quagmire there were 1.1 thousand million Arabs in the world. Previous to this quixotic intervention most Arabs could have been considered relatively germane towards the rest and not in sympathy with the perhaps 5 percent radical fringe. Today we, i.e., the west, have succeeded in isolating much much more of the Arab world and provided enough anger to exhort to arms tens of thousands of terrorists where there were hundreds before.

We are outnumbering ourselves with our own enemies. Nature usually rewards such action in a self-correcting fashion. And even the truth comes out from time to time in the numbers.

"The real war is won before the first arms strike..."
-Sun Tsu

AmenToThat

Although the timing is obviously linked to the American elections Im not gonna comment on how it might effect them as to be honest I have no idea!
But there is another target audience for this film and thats the muslim audience and Id imagen the Iraqi audience in particular.
Its now common knowledge the Americans are going into Fallujah soon as one American marine commander commented today "we are gonna whack them" and that the elections in January 05(if they happen) are gonna be very important.

As was said tonight.....he (Bin Laden) was dressed like a prince and the video look far more professional and there was none of that caves and grubby clothes lark!
I believe this was a message to the people in the arab word that he considers himself their leader.
That he is in control and in no danger
He also comapered American society to all the regimes in the middle east saying that they were morally corrupt and that money was a driving force behind them.
Id imagen to many fighting the Americans/British invaders in Iraq this will be a moral victory for them and give them fresh energy for the fight.
Even those Bathists who were apposed to the ideology of al quida and the Arab nationalists with no connection to Zarqawi will draw from this.
For Zarqawi himself though this video may be a double edged swored!

ionapaul

I agree, the video and message (despite being address to American citizens) seem targetted towards the Arab world. Certainly it will continue to cement his position as a hero to the masses - attacked the only superpower left in the world, gave it a black eye and continues to survive to boast of it!

adjodlo

You never know how it was meant to be intended. I'm sure bin laden and his advisors are not stupid, and could well want the video to make more people vote for bush - he's the best reason in the world to join al qaeda

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Hobbes

flogen wrote:

It is a bit of a running joke that Bin Laden supports Bush alright!

During the spanish bombings AQ give their public acknowledgement that Bush should win. Not too sure about OBL.

But I would of thought this kind of trick seems like the "October surprise" for Bush, considering he isn't doing too well and actually had to beg to Democrats in Ohio to vote for him.

Anyone see that show in Discovery where they created Hitler / Churchill / Roosevelt using actors. Not that anyone would ever create a fake terrorist to get support.

billy the squid

PH01 wrote:

Don't think so. Look at Kerry's response. He's almost saying and calling upon America to rally around the President!
I don't think there is anything now that Kerry can say. It's too late. It's over! Bush has effectively won the election.
There's no time left to turn this around.
Unless...

Im probably grasping at straws here but haven't parts of America already voted?

Sparks

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Even though Kerry's statement was "Bush had the opportunity to kill him in Tora Bora and failed; I won't"? And despite Kerry now having more money to spend than Bush and that he's outspending him so there are 4 ads for Kerry for every 3 for Bush?
If he doesn't win under those circumstances.... well, I'll understand why Q-tips have safety warnings saying "don't push too hard"...

RuggieBear

forgive me for sounding stoopid here...but is this proper evidence that the ****er is still alive?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Lennoxschips

It's well known that Bin Laden wants an polarised christian-muslim war of ideologies. Bush has given him exactly that, so I would expect that Bin Laden would like to see a continuation of Bush and his self destructive policies.

By releasing a tape criticising US Foreign Policy, Bin Laden has now effectively removed 'Foreign Policy' as a campaign issue. If Kerry now makes any critique about foreign policy, he will be accused of siding with Bin Laden. He'll have difficulty trying to hammer home jobs & the economy now too, because all the attention is on Bin Laden.

Bin Laden is playing the US public like a cat teasing a mouse and has handed the election to Bush. The polls are already drifting back towards Bush.

It would appear that the president of the USA is no longer the most powerful man in the world, but a man in a cave with a camcorder.

GuanYin

RuggieBear wrote:

forgive me for sounding stoopid here...but is this proper evidence that the ****er is still alive?

Have you read this thread fully?

Yes, he mentions Kerry as the opposition candidate. Kerry only came forward as the democratic candidate a few months back and everyone thought it would be Edwards.

So the video is no older than the summer.

RuggieBear

syke wrote:

Have you read this thread fully?

Yes, he mentions Kerry as the opposition candidate. Kerry only came forward as the democratic candidate a few months back and everyone thought it would be Edwards.

So the video is no older than the summer.

Yeah...but just making sure. I've found a lot of the other tapes/recorings have been ambigous and could have been made at anytime. This (to my admitedly limited knowledge) seems to be the first credible evidence that he is still in a cave somewhere....

shotamoose

Lennoxschips wrote:

The polls are already drifting back towards Bush.

Not as far as I can see, Kerry's pulled it back to level-pegging in the national vote according to most polls. Given how close we are to the election, we're not going to know what effect (if any) OBL's video has had until after the vote's over.

I think ArcadeGame might be right in that this may remind a lot of people that Bush has done very little to catch OBL, who is still merrily taunting the US from some undisclosed location.

Having not read the whole transcript yet, I'm still a little unsure of OBL's intentions with this announcement. The timing indicates he wants to influence the election, but if that was the case surely he'd have been a bit more explicit in his words? He doesn't really come out and say anything like "Vote Kerry!" at any stage ...

Sparks

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Heard him on the 0700 news this morning on radio one saying that.

dahamsta

Three different translations, from the US, Europe and Middle East. I don't think there's that much of a difference in content when you get right down to it, but it's interesting how different the english is, if you get my drift. Must be quite difficult to translate middle eastern languages by the look of it.

adam

mr_angry

George W. Bush is the best thing that ever happened to Al Qaeda. Recruitment must be up tenfold or hundredfold on previous generations. Investors that see the corrupt West bombing the middle east and syphoning off cheap oil must be queuing up at the door to pump money into the organisation.

Now, thats not the way I see things myself, its hyperbole, but if I was an Arab who was sick of seeing the Middle-East f*cked up by the West, would I be sympathetic to Al Qaeda? Its pretty likely. And it seems that this stunt is aimed at keeping GWB in power, and continuing to keep Al Qaeda counting the coffers, and raking in recruits.

PH01

dahamsta wrote:

Three different translations, from the US, Europe and Middle East. I don't think there's that much of a difference in content when you get right down to it, but it's interesting how different the english is, if you get my drift. Must be quite difficult to translate middle eastern languages by the look of it.

adam

Is it just me or does the translation sound like a Last Will and Testament from OBL?
When he says, "Any (presidential) mandate which does not play havoc with our security would automatically ensure its own security."
Is he saying, "Bush is play havoc with my security (and I don't know how long I can hold out)"?


And for all you tinfoil-hat wearing folks out there OBL is in China!

Sleepy

Can someone explain something to me?

How is George W Bush considered by the American people to the better military leader? It's widely known that he was a deserter in the Texas Air Reserve, never fought a battle (other than with his "personal demons") in his life and quite obviously doesn't know the difference between a scalpel and a broadsword.

Yes, we all know about the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" smear campaign but that was convincingly debunked.

When one candidate is a decorated war veteran who has experience of command and the other's nearest experience is running for cover and later jumping aboard a naval vessel in flightgear and pronouncing victory years before such a thing will be true, how on earth can you expect the pretender to be a better commander in chief?

therecklessone

Sleepy wrote:

When one candidate is a decorated war veteran who has experience of command and the other's nearest experience is running for cover and later jumping aboard a naval vessel in flightgear and pronouncing victory years before such a thing will be true, how on earth can you expect the pretender to be a better commander in chief?

[Karl Rove]But he's a flip-flopping liberal senator from Massachusetts/wrong war, wrong place, wrong time[/Karl Rove]

Sleepy

therecklessone wrote:

[Karl Rove]But he's a flip-flopping liberal senator from Massachusetts/wrong war, wrong place, wrong time[/Karl Rove]

The sheer idiocy of it all is unbelievable... but stangely gripping at the same time...

MrNuked

Bush's image as a strong military leader is just the result of a strong campaign advertising him as such. They have a Gerogre Bush Action Man figure where he is dressed like a fighter pilot you know. Also his body language is moderately aggressive I think, and his stupid behaviour probably fits in with some American Pattonesque stereotype of what a general acts like.

Edit: I saw him on the news last night and he was shown standing in front of a fighter plane, wearing what liooked like a pilot's jacket.

pork99

The good news is Bin Laden thinks he's fighting the Soviet Union which I believe makes him nearly as dumb as Bush

Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S.

He's re-fighting the previous war - classic mistake (a bit like invading Iraq )

So who is the super power backer this time around? US support was decisive in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Isn't bankrupting the USA Bush's job anyway?

pork99

Sleepy wrote:

Can someone explain something to me?

How is George W Bush considered by the American people to the better military leader? It's widely known that he was a deserter in the Texas Air Reserve, never fought a battle (other than with his "personal demons") in his life and quite obviously doesn't know the difference between a scalpel and a broadsword.

Yes, we all know about the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" smear campaign but that was convincingly debunked.

When one candidate is a decorated war veteran who has experience of command and the other's nearest experience is running for cover and later jumping aboard a naval vessel in flightgear and pronouncing victory years before such a thing will be true, how on earth can you expect the pretender to be a better commander in chief?

What annoys me as well is all this crap the Republicans come out with about not changing commanders in the middle of a war. History is full of example of incompetent commanders getting fired in the middle of wars/campaigns - that's how you win ffs.

ixoy

MrNuked wrote:

They have a Gerogre Bush Action Man figure where he is dressed like a fighter pilot you know.

I thought you were joking but then I saw this:


!!!

Heh, there's a site about the accessories here.

He's an action figure. Oh dear God. Maybe he can lead G.I. Joe now...I really really really can't see why he'd be voted back in based on his somewhat craptacular efforts in Iraq lately. I'm flummoxed and need to lie down. Maybe I'll be smiling in four more days, instead of crying for four more years...

Sparks

He's an action figure. Oh dear God. Maybe he can lead G.I. Joe now...

Or debate Ralph Nader...

therecklessone

ixoy wrote:

I thought you were joking but then I saw this:



He's an action figure. Oh dear God.

I bought one recently.

All I got was a box and an attendance record, but no doll....

Hobbes

Heh comes in 3 models.

http://www.liquidgeneration.com/poptoons/pms_bush.asp

MrNuked

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1938460.stm

These are the ones I had in mind.