Insurance claim quandry

Sleipnir

not me, a mate of mine.

He bought a Peugeot GTi about 6 months ago for €5000. Great car, clean no problems
About 3 weeks ago this woman in her ancient Nissan Sunny t-boned him (she pulled out of her estate without looking apparently, 4 kids in the back too!)
His car was written off, she admitted liability and so did her insurance company.

Now, the claims assessor says that the value of the car just before the crash was 2,500 and that's what the insurance company offered him.
Basically, they said that his car had halved in value in 6 months.

My mate says that 2500 is not the current market value of the car and send in copies of CBG, Autotrader etc to prove the current market value of the same make, model, age car etc.

Insurance company say they'll refer back to the assessor (an external company) but there's no way in hell he's going to say
"oh you're right, it's worth twice what we said originally"
because the insurance company will say to the assessor
"You don't seem to know anything about assessing CMV of cars"
and he'll lose the business.

Now here's the quandry.
My mate doesn't see why he should be out of pocket. It wasn't his fault and they are basically trying to screw him now.
So, in order for him not to be out of pocket due to someone else's mistake, he's off for a neckbrace.
While I HATE the idea he has no alternative that I can see.
The insurance company have forced him to make a personal injury claim.

Anyone disagree with what he's doing?

What's the bloody point in having insurance?
Why do insurance companies tell us that the reason out premiums have skyrocketed is because of personal injury claims when they don't give you any choice but to go down that route?

seagizmo

No matter what, I would say don't get a neckbrace. If your mate gets caught'scamming' he wont get a penny!

Similar thing happened a family member, their Alfa was rear-ended and the accessor only valued it at €2000, when it was a perfectly good car.

You need to tell you mate to fight the insurance company, they bank on you giving up. Threaten to take it to all the papers and radio! Make as much noise as possible.

How much did he insure it for? Did he specify a value on the policy?

SG

masto1983

Just out of interest, can you post all the details of the car up? Such as make, model,year,cc,mileage!

Or just go here: https://www.ros.ie:/VRTEnquiryServlet/showVRT
and have a look at the VRO's valuation of it. The price they give is usually only 80-90% the market value tho!!
He could bring in that valuation and shove it up their arses!

Gmodified

is not Quin Direct by any chance?

seagizmo

Or just go here: https://www.ros.ie:/VRTEnquiryServlet/showVRT
and have a look at the VRO's valuation of it. The price they give is usually only 80-90% the market value tho!!
He could bring in that valuation and shove it up their arses![/QUOTE]

Crap, my car's worth bugger all ;(

SG

Sleipnir

It's a 97 actually (I didn't know but I have a photo of it here I'd forgotten about!)
not sure about the milage.
This chap is very savvy financially, he wouldn't be one to not know if the car was a good deal or not. He'd be the type to read and research everything he could about it before parting with a single cent.
He didn't drive huge distances or drive like a loon (well, only sometimes it is a GTi after all!)

He only wants to be able to buy the same car again, not screw the insurance company for a holiday or anything.

I guess writing to newspapers, Insurance Federation of Ireland etc might get them to cough up what they should.

Gurgle

Tell your mate to engage the services of his own lawyer and challenge the insurance companies valuation of the car in the small claims court.

fletch

It's so annoying...l remember studying insurance in Business Studies in school and the whole idea of insurance is to leave you in the "same financial status" as you were prior to the accident! When/if the insurance company pay out the €2500, you friend will, evidently not be in the same state as he was previously thus defeating the whole point of insurance... Agghh its so annoying!

leeroybrown

fletch wrote:

It's so annoying...l remember studying insurance in Business Studies in school and the whole idea of insurance is to leave you in the "same financial status" as you were prior to the accident!

Meanwhile, people who later ventured into the insurance industry were paying far more attention to the economics section of the course and realised that minimising payout made economic sense for the insurer.

Boggle

What was the insured value of the car? I know you wont get it but what is the point of asking you this (and basing your ins on this) if they aren't prepared to hand it out?

MrPudding

This is something which confuses me greatly. Years ago I had an MGB GT. I got a quotation based on a value of £2500, this was in the north. I unfortunately wrote it off. I had fully comp insurance (it was 150quid cheaper then TPF & T.) The insurance company offered me £1500. Given that I had paid £1550 as my premium I was not best pleased.

I tried to argue with them on a number of points, first of all I show them all the receipts for the part and labour for the restoration of the car. The person I had bought it off spent a small fortune restoring it. This had no effect.

Next I pointed out that we had an agreement. I explained that I had asked them how much it would cost to insure my car to the value of £2500, they told me and I paid. I kept my side of the deal why would they not keep theirs. They said the car was never worth that amount, I told them 1) Them you should get cars valued before you quote for them and then quote based on what you think they are worth and 2) It doesn’t matter, I paid the premium you requested for the value I told you. I should get what I had paid for.

In the end I got £1600. They are scum and a law onto themselves. I still wouldn’t fake an injury to get more money off them though. That is wrong and it supports their reasons for ripping us off now.

MrP

koneko

Those fake injuries are part of the reason everyone here is paying such extortionate prices for insurance. I would seriously discourage him if I were you (though if he's losing a lot of money and feeling hard done by, he probably won't listen).

Checked the value of my car on that site and it's off, to me anyway. I can't find any for that price and I definitely paid more (about 6 months back).

Gmodified

koneko wrote:

Those fake injuries are part of the reason everyone here is paying such extortionate prices for insurance.

yes pay outs are higher but really it's a myth , they still make enough money to cover high cost claims. This shouldn't be my concern that my insurance company pays millions in claims. I get my policy to be insured and they should be the first people complaining to government that system allows judges to award high compensation

Obviously, they are comfortable with the situation

hazbot

Just as an aside, hang on and see what the insurance assessor has to say.

I was rear-ended in a new car one time. The dealer I bought it from gave me a quote for repair based on a very quick inspection. The assessor then paid me a visit to verify the amount. In fact he pointed out that there was probably MORE work required to repair the car and recommended a HIGHER estimate. Turns out he was right, the dealer had a closer look, and the insurance company paid out the higher amount no bother.

MadsL

Insurance companies should in any case be making money from their investments (our money that they then use to invest) instead of short-changing us when we make a claim (that's what the excess is there for)

I've had to underwrite my own car after some scumbag torched it - basically because it was cheaper to just forget claiming and be spared the years of inflated premiums. Just plain wrong.

ciasto

MadsL wrote:

Insurance companies should in any case be making money from their investments (our money that they then use to invest) instead of short-changing us when we make a claim (that's what the excess is there for)

I've had to underwrite my own car after some scumbag torched it - basically because it was cheaper to just forget claiming and be spared the years of inflated premiums. Just plain wrong.

I agree, never claim cause in the long run they will get their money back and a little more for the hassle.

The Muppet

Morally of course it is wrong to go off for the neckbrace as you put it but its easy to hold onto morals if I am not the person that has paid over the odds to the insurance company and is then expected to write off a further €2,500 of my hard earned . I do not condone your friends contemplated actions but I would fully understand his reasons if he took that course of action.

Mr P udding made a very good point . If the Insurance companies are happy to take our valuations on the vehicle when selling us a policy should they not be forced to hold their side of the deal if we are unfortunate enough to have to make a claim. Is that not what we have paid for? Has this ever been challenged in court?

Imposter

The Muppet wrote:

Mr P udding made a very good point . If the Insurance companies are happy to take our valuations on the vehicle when selling us a policy should they not be forced to hold their side of the deal if we are unfortunate enough to have to make a claim. Is that not what we have paid for? Has this ever been challenged in court?

It is not your insurance company that is paying though. It is the person who caused the accident's insurance company.

Getting them to value the car before insuring it would work but so would having them tasked with finding you a similar car (according to you as well) or giving you a fair valuation. It would also save you (the victim) the hassle of having to get another car.

Esel

I hope you have fictionalised all the details in the first post.

Otherwise your 'friend' would be readily identifiable when he dons his horse collar.

It is not outside the bounds of possibility that this forum has industry lurkers on a regular basis.

MrPudding

Imposter wrote:

It is not your insurance company that is paying though. It is the person who caused the accident's insurance company.

In my case it was my own insurance company. I crashed my own car with no one else involved and claimed on my own fully comp policy.

MrP

Farls

seagizmo wrote:

No matter what, I would say don't get a neckbrace. If your mate gets caught 'scamming' he wont get a penny!

How much did he insure it for? Did he specify a value on the policy?

Those are the two things your friend needs to think about.

For him to get insurance he had to specify a value for the vehicle and that is how much he should get in return for the vehicle.

The claims handler in the insurance company work on prices out of a regularly updated book, i can find out the exact price for this car during the week if you like?

Farlz

Borzoi

Gmodified wrote:

yes pay outs are higher but really it's a myth , they still make enough money to cover high cost claims. This shouldn't be my concern that my insurance company pays millions in claims. I get my policy to be insured and they should be the first people complaining to government that system allows judges to award high compensation

Obviously, they are comfortable with the situation

In what sense is it a myth?? In the sense that typical injury awards are approximately 4 times that of the UK. For instance lose of an eye.
UK: £15,000 (€22,000)
Ireland: €90,000
These figures a a few years out of date, but they could be cosidered indicative of why insurance is so much higher. Source was a senior claims official with Norwich Union

Now naturally the ins companies are reasonably content, because if you make a percentage, on a much higher turnover that's more money for them.

Boggle

Its easy to say not to fake an injury when your able to afford to replace the car, but if that happened me and I (who'd be in a right hole in that situation) knew I was being royally screwed by the ins company, then I would have to admit that I'd be tempted to do it.
Dunno if I'd be able to go through with it but I'd def think about it...

...actually on second thoughts - I'm bein screwed from all angles by the ***** so I'd have no hesitation in getting some of my money back! (As far as I'm concerned they are discriminating against me illegally so I'd rob them .... you get what you deserve!)

Gmodified

Borzoi wrote:

In what sense is it a myth?? In the sense that typical injury awards are approximately 4 times that of the UK. For instance lose of an eye.
UK: £15,000 (€22,000)
Ireland: €90,000
These figures a a few years out of date, but they could be cosidered indicative of why insurance is so much higher. Source was a senior claims official with Norwich Union

Now naturally the ins companies are reasonably content, because if you make a percentage, on a much higher turnover that's more money for them.

yes, they pay out 4x that of the uk but make enough money comparing to uk too, also you can say that they are insured too

pedro ferio-vti

I would strongly advise your friend to not go down the neck brace route because not only is he screwing every other motorist, if he's caught, under new PIAB regulations he will probably be thrown behind bars and heavily fined as well.

Tell him to get various examples of 106GTis for sale and show them to the insurance company. They will have to give him the PAV (Pre-Accident value)for the car.

big man

Theres no point in donning a fake collar. Fact of the matter that there is now no such thing as a personal injuries claim going to court since the arrival of the PIAB!!! First off your mate would have to write to the auld one that him and ask her to pay for his costs. if he gets no joy from that, he is obliged to go to the Personal Injuries Assesment Board to lodge a claim. Docs reports have to be sent in, and then they see whether its a valid claim and if it is, the amount paid out is whatever has been decided in the Book of Quantam. The only reason it would ever go to court would be if there was a problem over who was liable but there isnt!!

On the value of the car, there are only 1 or 2 insurers who rate the premium on the value of the car, and they aint mainstream! Price seems low. If hes got comp, get his insurance company to bring it to one of their approved garages and for them to put a price on it!! And for them to claim back from the Third Party!!