New Florida vote scandal revealed

arcadegame2004

So much for the US being a democracy.

A secret document obtained from inside Bush campaign headquarters in Florida suggests a plan - possibly in violation of US law - to disrupt voting in the state's African-American voting districts, a BBC Newsnight investigation reveals.

Election supervisor Ion Sancho believes some voters are being intimidated
Two e-mails, prepared for the executive director of the Bush campaign in Florida and the campaign's national research director in Washington DC, contain a 15-page so-called "caging list".

It lists 1,886 names and addresses of voters in predominantly black and traditionally Democrat areas of Jacksonville, Florida.

An elections supervisor in Tallahassee, when shown the list, told Newsnight: "The only possible reason why they would keep such a thing is to challenge voters on election day."

Ion Sancho, a Democrat, noted that Florida law allows political party operatives inside polling stations to stop voters from obtaining a ballot.

Mass challenges

They may then only vote "provisionally" after signing an affidavit attesting to their legal voting status.

Mass challenges have never occurred in Florida. Indeed, says Mr Sancho, not one challenge has been made to a voter "in the 16 years I've been supervisor of elections."

"Quite frankly, this process can be used to slow down the voting process and cause chaos on election day; and discourage voters from voting."

Sancho calls it "intimidation." And it may be illegal.

Republican state campaign spokeswoman Mindy Tucker Fletcher
A Republican spokeswoman did not deny that voters would be challenged at polling stations
In Washington, well-known civil rights attorney, Ralph Neas, noted that US federal law prohibits targeting challenges to voters, even if there is a basis for the challenge, if race is a factor in targeting the voters.

The list of Jacksonville voters covers an area with a majority of black residents.

When asked by Newsnight for an explanation of the list, Republican spokespersons claim the list merely records returned mail from either fundraising solicitations or returned letters sent to newly registered voters to verify their addresses for purposes of mailing campaign literature.

Republican state campaign spokeswoman Mindy Tucker Fletcher stated the list was not put together "in order to create" a challenge list, but refused to say it would not be used in that manner.

Rather, she did acknowledge that the party's poll workers will be instructed to challenge voters, "Where it's stated in the law."

There was no explanation as to why such clerical matters would be sent to top officials of the Bush campaign in Florida and Washington.



Democrat Congresswoman Corinne Brown says watches a private investigator film voters
In Jacksonville, to determine if Republicans were using the lists or other means of intimidating voters, we filmed a private detective filming every "early voter" - the majority of whom are black - from behind a vehicle with blacked-out windows.

The private detective claimed not to know who was paying for his all-day services.

On the scene, Democratic Congresswoman Corinne Brown said the surveillance operation was part of a campaign of intimidation tactics used by the Republican Party to intimate and scare off African American voters, almost all of whom are registered Democrats.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Is that linked anywhere online?

it'll be both amusing and horrifying if bush pulls the same old tricks he did last time to get into office.

mike65

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3956129.stm

The feature is on tonights Newsnight.

Mike.

wheels of ire

Mordeth wrote:

Is that linked anywhere online?

it'll be both amusing and horrifying if bush pulls the same old tricks he did last time to get into office.

Since you got this far, why not check out Greg Palast's own site, www.gregpalast.com
And while at it, why not check out Information Clearing House at www.informationclearinghouse.info

billy the squid

that program is availible on demand for anyone interested

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tvseq/newsnight/newsnight.ram

sceptre

When asked by Newsnight for an explanation of the list, Republican spokespersons claim the list merely records returned mail from either fundraising solicitations or returned letters sent to newly registered voters to verify their addresses for purposes of mailing campaign literature.

Republican state campaign spokeswoman Mindy Tucker Fletcher stated the list was not put together "in order to create" a challenge list, but refused to say it would not be used in that manner.

Wonderful. So simple too. GOP sends out campaign literature. Joe Bloggs sends it back with a note attached that says "keep your Republican crud to yourselves, rednecks". Joe Bloggs gets added to the "to be challenged" list as an unfriendly who wanted to vote for the other guy.

That's the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that they're just targetting black people as they're almost all core Democrats. The worstest case scenario would be that, regardless of which of the above is true, they get away with it.

sceptre

When asked by Newsnight for an explanation of the list, Republican spokespersons claim the list merely records returned mail from either fundraising solicitations or returned letters sent to newly registered voters to verify their addresses for purposes of mailing campaign literature.

Republican state campaign spokeswoman Mindy Tucker Fletcher stated the list was not put together "in order to create" a challenge list, but refused to say it would not be used in that manner.

Wonderful. So simple too. GOP sends out campaign literature. Joe Bloggs sends it back with a note attached that says "keep your Republican crud to yourselves, rednecks". Joe Bloggs gets added to the "to be challenged" list as an unfriendly who wanted to vote for the other guy.

That's the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that they're just indiscriminately targetting black people as they're almost all core Democrats. The worstest case scenario would be that, regardless of which of the above is true, they get away with it.

shotamoose

Republicans urge minorities to get out and vote on Nov. 3

Looking fairly accurate at this stage. Hope everyone's ready for the eventual military coup ...

Hobbes

I am curious.. why can they challange you? What purpose does it serve? I am lost on this. Do you not just go in and vote and thats it?

Hobbes

Doing some checking. Appears the story broke because some muppet put the wrong sender on the document when emailing it.

Apprantly the GOP do this a lot and the website that get thems set up a dead letter box. It's an intresting read.

http://www.georgewbush.org/deadletteroffice/

dahamsta

Just noticed on Slashdot that the GWB campaign website is blocking IP addresses outside the States. Typical.

EDIT: Heh, that guy Donald Povia is in so much trouble.

adam

mycroft

Hobbes wrote:

I am curious.. why can they challange you? What purpose does it serve? I am lost on this. Do you not just go in and vote and thats it?

They can challenge anything about you it's why you bring documentation with you, they can challenge are you who you say you are, are you a resident, is this your polling station, and are you a felon, just for starts.

Seriously. Imagine going up to a polling station to be greeted by a phalanx of lawyers (think monty burns) bombarding you with florida election by laws (keep in mind 40 years ago in america black people were forced to undergo complex alegbra tests in parts of the US in order to disqualify them from voting, both the kennedys played key rolls in getting black americans in the south their vote which goes some way to explaining why sections of black society are hardcore democrat) Anyway it's designed to intimidate voters.

Seriously people, shenanigans! shenanigans!

Hobbes

Is there a reason why they are blocking outside the US? I would of thought there would be voting republicans outside of the US that would want to see the site?

Sleepy

The purpose of the challenges is to create queues at polling booths to discourage people from voting. It's generally accepted that the higher the turnout, the more likely it is that Bush will lose.

sovtek

Hobbes wrote:

Is there a reason why they are blocking outside the US? I would of thought there would be voting republicans outside of the US that would want to see the site?

I read about this a few weeks ago on www.commondreams.org...don't have exact link but sure can be found there.
It is quite possible it was done because of hackers from certain ISP's. Wanadoo was mentioned...I remember having to block their domain in sendmail a few years back myself.
On the other hand...if my experience last Tues at the US Consulate is any indication..as most of the 500 Americans there were voting for Kerry, then Bush is screwed.

dahamsta

sovtek wrote:

It is quite possible it was done because of hackers from certain ISP's. Wanadoo was mentioned...

I think this is unlikely. Certainly if it was only Wanadoo, only a few countries would be affected. I think it's much more likely that someone in the Bush campaign decided that the low opinion of Bush worldwide was something to worry about, and didn't want to give them easy access to raw materials for refutation. Are there really that many voters outside the country? The military would be a large block obviously, but they can easily be allowed access because their networks are tightly controlled.

adam

sovtek

dahamsta wrote:

I think this is unlikely. Certainly if it was only Wanadoo, only a few countries would be affected. I think it's much more likely that someone in the Bush campaign decided that the low opinion of Bush worldwide was something to worry about, and didn't want to give them easy access to raw materials for refutation.

I don't disagree but thought that the explanation was plausible...

Are there really that many voters outside the country? The military would be a large block obviously, but they can easily be allowed access because their networks are tightly controlled.

adam

I don't have any stats on how many people are now residing outside the US. I just know that there are alot more Americans here in South Africa than there used to be. I was shocked at how full the US Consulate in Cape Town was and that's not counting Jhb, which is SA's business centre, so there were many more people there.
I also met alot of Americans in Dublin when I was living there...so I think the overseas vote could be significant in this election as well.
Bush doens't necessarily have the military vote sown up this time around either.

Sleepy

sovtek wrote:

I read about this a few weeks ago on www.commondreams.org...don't have exact link but sure can be found there.
It is quite possible it was done because of hackers from certain ISP's. Wanadoo was mentioned...I remember having to block their domain in sendmail a few years back myself.
On the other hand...if my experience last Tues at the US Consulate is any indication..as most of the 500 Americans there were voting for Kerry, then Bush is screwed.

You forget, only a minority of Americans have passports and they don't tend to be the rednecks

Sleepy

sovtek wrote:

Bush doens't necessarily have the military vote sown up this time around either.

That's something I find interesting, how is it that he's considered to have the military vote down flat when he's sent his military into an ill-adivsed war underprepared for it? That and the fact that Kerry is known to have served honourably in Vietnam whilst Bush went AWOL on the Texas Air Reserve (hardly the most taxing of posts by any stretch of the imagination).

sovtek

Sleepy wrote:

You forget, only a minority of Americans have passports and they don't tend to be the rednecks

I've often heard that but have never seen any stats to back it up. I know the majority of Americans never travel overseas....but I think that number is growing.
Even if the majority never travel....say only 1 million are currently outside the US and the majority vote for Kerry (and I've even seen alot of support for Nader as well) then that's a significant amount against Bush.

kaimera

I dont think you can safely safe kerry served honourably in vietnam. his record was/is under fire.

sovtek

Sleepy wrote:

That's something I find interesting, how is it that he's considered to have the military vote down flat when he's sent his military into an ill-adivsed war underprepared for it? That and the fact that Kerry is known to have served honourably in Vietnam whilst Bush went AWOL on the Texas Air Reserve (hardly the most taxing of posts by any stretch of the imagination).

The only explanation I can come up with is that you don't necessarily have to be all that bright to get into the military...just easily led.

sovtek

Kaimera wrote:

I dont think you can safely safe kerry served honourably in vietnam. his record was/is under fire.

If your talking about the Swift Boat Veterans..they've been thoroughly debunked.

FatherTed

Read carefully....

When asked by Newsnight for an explanation of the list, Republican spokespersons claim the list merely records returned mail from either fundraising solicitations or returned letters sent to newly registered voters to verify their addresses for purposes of mailing campaign literature.

What in effect they're saying is that it's a list of people whose letters were returned. They sent mail to all new registrants, and many were returned. These are people who registered since the last election, new voters, and the addresses are already invalid? That's sounds like it could be voting fraud. I don't have any problem with them challenging voters for whom mail was returned within a few months of when they registered at that address if the goal is to find out if there is any voting fraud going on.

Sleepy

Kaimera wrote:

I dont think you can safely safe kerry served honourably in vietnam. his record was/is under fire.

Even George W Bush has gone on record to debunk that bullsh:t.

Yes I'm aware it was only a shrewd political move to distance himself from the slur but nonetheless, I don't think anyone with a brain believed it in the first place. Particularly after men that served with Kerry started appearing of their own accord all over the American media, including his CO who at the time couldn't stand him...

sovtek - my point was that it tends to be the educated American's who travel (and boy do they get an education in the global perception of their country when they do!). Most educated people will be voting for Kerry, the CEO's pulling W's puppet strings excluded of course...

shotamoose

Hobbes wrote:

I am curious.. why can they challange you? What purpose does it serve? I am lost on this. Do you not just go in and vote and thats it?

I think the purpose of it is to slow down the voting process as much as possible by challenging as many people as possible, creating queues outside polling stations and thus discouraging or (if the clock runs out) preventing people from voting. They'll target this on areas which are known to be heavily Democrat. And this isn't tinfoil-hat paranoia - it was discussed in a major news story in the New York Times the other day.

Hobbes

Kaimera wrote:

I dont think you can safely safe kerry served honourably in vietnam. his record was/is under fire.

Welcome to last month. He served honourably. There was even an investigation by the DoD where it was shown he served honourably.

The only people still harping about it are the swift boat liers.

Victor

Kaimera wrote:

I dont think you can safely safe kerry served honourably in vietnam. his record was/is under fire.

And just how come not a single one of Bush's comrades in arms have endorsed Bush?

wheels of ire

Sleepy wrote:

You forget, only a minority of Americans have passports and they don't tend to be the rednecks

So just who are all those passing through Shannon?

Or is the US miliary redneck-free?

Victor

wheels of ire wrote:

So just who are all those passing through Shannon? Or is the US miliary redneck-free?

They don't need (and quite probably don't have - so they can't go AWOL) passports as they are travelling under their military IDs.