The new 50MPH speed limit

kevinmcc · 22-10-2004 10:06am #1

Hi, I'm not very up to date on what the story is with these new speed limits so is it definitely going to drop from 60MPH to 50MPH next year or might that be dropped? I think it's ridiculous reducing speed limits to 50MPH on regional roads. They should stay at 60. It's not going to make any difference to road accidents/deaths IMO as the people who cause the accidents are usually the ones going at 80+, passing people out on dangerous bends and racing on third class roads. Dropping the speed limit by 10MPH isnt going to help matters, it will just slow down the majority of us even more while those racing will continue to do so. Will the new Minister of Transport have a bit of sense and keep them the same. If they wanted they could reduce speed limits to 50MPH on third class roads but the gardai wouldnt be doing speed checks on those roads anyway.

Sleipnir · 22-10-2004 10:13am

Speed limits are going to be converted from MPH to KPH.
At the same time some limits will decrease while others will increase but the national speed limit won't be decreased across the board.

mackerski · 22-10-2004 12:16pm

kevinmcc wrote:

Hi, I'm not very up to date on what the story is with these new speed limits so is it definitely going to drop from 60MPH to 50MPH next year or might that be dropped?

It's going to drop to 80km/h (yes, that's close to 50mph) on non-national roads. But that's a default limit, and it can be marked back up where warranted. I'd like to be able to claim that I trusted the authorties to actually carry out this bit...

It's harder to say exactly when this is going to happen. The changeover was supposed to be happening right about now, but that was delayed to a reported "January" with no indication of when in January. Some reports I read claimed that we were obliged to have the changeover complete by end of year (EU imposed deadline), so maybe they are planning for 1st January.

As others have posted, the first of the metric signs are already in place approaching the M50 toll bridge.

Dermot

RE*AC*TOR · 22-10-2004 12:22pm

Well on little windy country roads, 50mph is indeed more suitable, but the problem is, there's no real effort to monitor dangerous driving on those roads.

milltown · 22-10-2004 12:33pm

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Well on little windy country roads, 50mph is indeed more suitable, but the problem is, there's no real effort to monitor dangerous driving on those roads.

Absolutely right. The lower speed limits will be used by gardaí to further demonise people who accidentally wander 5mph over the limit on wide straight roads where they set up speed traps. When was the last time you saw a speed trap on a dangerous piece of road? 'Twill be even more of a honeypot for the gards to dish out fines and points.

mike65 · 22-10-2004 3:07pm

milltown wrote:

. When was the last time you saw a speed trap on a dangerous piece of road?

Well one reason the Gardai dont set up speed traps on such roads is because it would be a hazzard to traffic.

Mike.

The Muppet · 22-10-2004 3:11pm

mike65 wrote:

Well one reason the Gardai dont set up speed traps on such roads is because it would be a hazzard to traffic.

Mike.

Would that be speeding motorists causing the Hazzard Mike ?

These are the roads where most of the accidents happen and so are most in need of having the limits enforced.

mike65 · 22-10-2004 3:57pm

What I mean is (and we've all seen this) if the Gardai set up a trap on a narrow country road drivers (of a certain critinous type) would jump on the brakes as they saw it thus casuing more harm than good, then if someone was caught they'd have to be pulled over so partially blocking the road which would be unsafe on a back road. Now if fixed GATSO type cameras were used I guess it would'nt matter but it seems there are about 3 in the entire country!

Mike.

Alun · 22-10-2004 4:33pm

I just hope that all the muppets who now drive at 40mph on National Routes, braking down to 30mph at every single bend no matter how slight, won't now decrease their speed by an additional 10mph !!! We may as well all go back to horse and carts if that happens.

GreeBo · 22-10-2004 4:44pm

kevinmcc wrote:

It's not going to make any difference to road accidents/deaths IMO as the people who cause the accidents are usually the ones going at 80+, Dropping the speed limit by 10MPH isnt going to help matters,

What do you reckon the difference in stopping distance is between 50mph and 60mph?

coz its about 5 car lengths, 175ft -v- 240ft

Canis Lupus · 22-10-2004 5:29pm

GreeBo wrote:

What do you reckon the difference in stopping distance is between 50mph and 60mph?

coz its about 5 car lengths, 175ft -v- 240ft

i hate ppl who quote that stuff..... i mean who cares???? if a kid walk out in front of me or some such situation im not going to apply the brakes and drive in a happy straight line towards the kid am i? thats why god gave cars a steering wheel... next what size tires were those tests carried out on? what type brakes, what type car and what road surface type.... God I'm grumpy and need to go home... anyway..

Also I live in Kerry with the windy roads.. the two local places the Gardai check for speeds are in 40mph zones before (or after whichever way u look at it) the 30mph zone coming into town. Essentially the two sections of road are two lanes wide with hard shoulders and yet the gardai happily sit there and speed check these sections where as if they spent 5 more minutes driving in either direction they could speed check roads where ppl easily exceed 70mph and on roads that are in no way suited for it. Now I'm one of those speeders so I'm thankful they don't speed check but even still it makes me laugh that they reduce speed limits on major "safe" roads pissing everyone but won't make the effort to curtail speeding where it really counts..... just last week along one section of windy road an ijit didnt slow down going over a blind bump and ploughed head on into a car (mother and child) mother was slightly hurt i beleive and both cars wrote off.... and in some 15 odd years ive never seen or heard of a garda in that area and there have been numerous crashes along that particular road as a result of stupid speeding

rymus · 22-10-2004 6:21pm

milltown wrote:

'Twill be even more of a honeypot for the gards to dish out fines and points.

Presuming they can provide you with a printed receipt that is

Our man in Havana · 22-10-2004 10:30pm

rymus wrote:

Presuming they can provide you with a printed receipt that is

With the cameras they only send you a pic of the bare number plate and nothing else.

therecklessone · 22-10-2004 10:48pm

Canis Lupus wrote:

i hate ppl who quote that stuff..... i mean who cares???? if a kid walk out in front of me or some such situation im not going to apply the brakes and drive in a happy straight line towards the kid am i? thats why god gave cars a steering wheel...

So which would you choose on a narrow country road, the ditch to your left or the opposite direction traffic on your right?

ando · 22-10-2004 11:07pm

is it roads like the n3 that are going to be dropped to 50?

Canis Lupus · 23-10-2004 4:51pm

therecklessone wrote:

So which would you choose on a narrow country road, the ditch to your left or the opposite direction traffic on your right?

Your posing that question to point out the breaking distance... fine well there are not really that many sections of road where its not possible for 2 cars to pass side by side (even at speed) at least where i live in rural kerry... and if yur driving along such a stretch then common sense should control your speed. There is one thing to speed and another matter entirely to drive recklessly. oh and to answer yur question I'd go for the ditch as the other driver would do for their side thus avoiding a more dangerous headon collision... but again when I drive a road thats only really wide enough for one car I drive at a speed thats sensible and also allows for an idiot who might be approaching me without due care.

therecklessone · 23-10-2004 5:21pm

Canis Lupus wrote:

Your posing that question to point out the breaking distance... fine well there are not really that many sections of road where its not possible for 2 cars to pass side by side (even at speed) at least where i live in rural kerry

I'm not talking about narrow lanes with enough room for one car to procees, I'm talking about a road with two lanes but feck all else in the way of room to manoeuvre. And I ask you the question because I faced something very similar about 3 years ago.

On my way to work one Saturday morning. I'm late, so I'm over the limit by about 10mph. Leaving a 30 zone for a 40 zone I encounter a slight hump-backed bridge with a left hand turn just after it. The turn is awkward, its about a 130 degree turn.

Anyway, as I approach the bridge at 50mph a car pulls out of the turn oblivious to my approach. I'm left with three options:

1. Brake, but crash into the car that is now stopped sideways across my entire lane, if I'm lucky I'll only break my legs in the impact.
2. Go left, into not one but two stone walls.
3. Go right into the other lane, trying to brake and avoid the stone wall on the extreme right.

Thankfully there was no opposite direction traffic, and I only managed to tear the side off my car by choosing option 3 . But what would I have done if the other lane had been full of traffic?

Lesson learned? Yes indeed. Leave home 5 minutes earlier and watch my speed. In relation to your earlier comments, it shows that sometimes the difference in braking distance can be the difference between a near-miss and an accident.

Canis Lupus · 23-10-2004 6:25pm

thats true but 2 points... sometimes accidents are just that.. accidents and regardless of the situation u wont avoid it and 2 u were going too fast... remember its not how u drive u have to watch out for its the other inept pleb as well...

therecklessone · 23-10-2004 8:20pm

Canis Lupus wrote:

thats true but 2 points... sometimes accidents are just that.. accidents and regardless of the situation u wont avoid it and 2 u were going too fast... remember its not how u drive u have to watch out for its the other inept pleb as well...

Point 1 is true. Accidents will happen.

Point 2? What happens if the inept pleb does what happened to me when you're happily chugging along at a legal 60mph? You're back to choosing left or right...still think braking distances are pointless cos you have a steering wheel?

Canis Lupus · 24-10-2004 11:13am

Just cos yur legally able to drive at 60 on the roads doesn't mean you should attempt to stay at that speed, I don't think it's any excuse to tear around a blind bend at 60 and smack straight into something.... again you drive at the speed that you consider safest for the given stretch of road. I do get your point tho so we can stop arguing this, it's just my opinion that it wouldn't be very smart to get into a situation involving a straight line stop... Your supposed to anticipate danger and be ready to adjust to it....

BrianD · 24-10-2004 1:39pm

ando wrote:

is it roads like the n3 that are going to be dropped to 50?

No, it will be the likes of country lane ways and R routes, the majority of which have no speed limits posted and where the speed limit is currently assumed to be 60mph, 10 mph less than a motorway.

Our man in Havana · 24-10-2004 2:19pm

There are some R routes that are perfectly adequate for 60 mph running. Reducing all R routes to 50 mph won't solve the problem.

GreeBo · 26-10-2004 8:50am

Canis Lupus wrote:

i hate ppl who quote that stuff..... i mean who cares???? if a kid walk out in front of me or some such situation im not going to apply the brakes and drive in a happy straight line towards the kid am i? thats why god gave cars a steering wheel... next what size tires were those tests carried out on? what type brakes, what type car and what road surface type.... God I'm grumpy and need to go home... anyway..

Just so's Im clear, you dont think that speed is involved in accidents?

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2004 9:59am

inappropriate speed is involved in accidents!
Also factored in are drink, drigs, tiredness, inattention and other things which rarely are targetted in the same way as exceeding the stated speed limit.

Victor · 26-10-2004 10:01am

kbannon wrote:

inappropriate speed is involved in accidents! Also factored in are drink, drigs, tiredness, inattention and other things which rarely are targetted in the same way as exceeding the stated speed limit.

How many of these are detectable from outside the vehicle?

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2004 10:12am

Drink, drugs & tiredness can all be targeted from outside the vehicle by checkpoints. However, due to our poor legislation and financing of this type of thing the gardai cannot adequatley and routinely check for these in the same way that they do in the UK.
Fruthermore, checkpoints are something that you see usually at christmas!

Boggle · 26-10-2004 1:03pm

Drink, drugs & tiredness can all be targeted from outside the vehicle by checkpoints. However, due to our poor legislation and financing of this type of thing the gardai cannot adequatley and routinely check for these in the same way that they do in the UK.
Fruthermore, checkpoints are something that you see usually at christmas!

Drink : yes, drugs: maybe, tiredness: not a chance... even if the driver is wrecked the adrenaline rush of meeting a checkpoint would always tide you over ... for a mile or 2.

Anyway , speed doesn't cause an accident - bad driving does! Speed just increases the damage done. The way I seee it, more effort should be put into enforcing driving standards (proper training) than speed limits...

a_ominous · 26-10-2004 1:17pm

kbannon wrote:

inappropriate speed is involved in accidents!

I have to agree with this completely. Motorway might have a speed limit if 70MPH, but should you drive at 70 if it's bucketing down or foggy???

My GF's parents live in Wickla, a narrow, twisty lane outside their house. Technically a 60MPH limit which some of the dozey drivers regularly try to achieve. The road is regularly used as a section for one of the rally driving each yer.

The biggest problem is nowhere in the rules of the road do they explain what is appropriate / inappropriate. And leaving that sh!+ to (un)common sense is daft.

[EDIT] Also should say I had an 'accident' travelling at 40MPH on the Naas dual carriageway. It was snowing and probably shouldn't have been driving at all. No-one injured fortunately, but cost a grand 8 years to fix the car up. Saw 20 other incidents in the 30 or so minutes I was pulled up on the hard shoulder. [/EDIT]

Seth Brundle · 26-10-2004 1:23pm

True, but they could bring in something to monitor commercial drivers hours on the road and breaks like in the UK (http://www.thisishertfordshire.co.uk/news/stalbans/display.var.533318.0.police_target_tired_truckers.php)
There are some devices but not scientfically tested (http://www.drowsydriving.org/drive_alert/countermeasures.cfm)
Also manufacturers are developng new detection devices for their cars

seamus · 26-10-2004 1:39pm

Canis Lupus wrote:

thats true but 2 points... sometimes accidents are just that.. accidents and regardless of the situation u wont avoid it

Accidents may be accidents, but they're all fundamentally avoidable. Even if a person is not at fault, there is always something they could have done to prevent the accident occuring (unless their vehicle is parked safely, and they're nowhere near the car).

I'd be wary of what this will do. While it will prevent some accidents, for those who don't realise that you can't always drive at 60mph, it won't, as others say, make the idiots who do 80mph on these roads slow down. It may also make them even more aggravated and dangerous because now they'll be trying to overtake whole queues of even slower-moving traffic.

On top of that, I think there'll probably be a lot of locals who've driven at or slightly above 60mph for years on these roads, and won't see any good reason to slow down now.

milltown · 26-10-2004 8:48pm

kbannon wrote:

True, but they could bring in something to monitor commercial drivers hours on the road and breaks like in the UK (http://www.thisishertfordshire.co.uk/news/stalbans/display.var.533318.0.police_target_tired_truckers.php)
There are some devices but not scientfically tested (http://www.drowsydriving.org/drive_alert/countermeasures.cfm)
Also manufacturers are developng new detection devices for their cars

All Irish commercial vehicles over (I think) 3.5 tonnes are equipped with tachographs which are checked at the yearly DOE test. Problem is, only traffic cops are trained to read the tacho disc and there aren't nearly enough traffic cops about. Falsifying a disc or not having a disc in the tacho when stopped is as serious an offence as anything the disc would have proved/disproved, much like Rio Ferdinand's missed drugs test.

Also, a truck driver must keep the tacho discs in the cab for the past few days (not sure how many) and older discs have to be retained in the company's office. The traffic cops can ask to see these whenever they like.

The new 50MPH speed limit

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