Identities of NRPAI Committee?

Clash

Just a quick note on this thread.

I went to the NRPAI website, as my curiosity was aroused by this thread. Apart from the article reproduced by Gouda and a short paragraph about the aims of the organisation, there is absolutely no other information.

Shouldn't there be at least the names of the current committee.

And perhaps, if it's not asking too much.. the rules the organisation operates under, that way a lot of the questions here might be answered.

Probably I'm being a bit greedy

Irishglockfan

Have to agree with clash on this. it isnt the most inspiring site for information.plus its addy doesnt make for easy finding for anyone. gun groups,target shooting in Ireland enterd it in dogpile and google.and it never came up.
if this is a 1st contact point,it is rather under inspiring.

Sparks

Well that site is the old NTSA site, which hosted a few pages for the other NRPAI groups. The new NTSA website, www.targetshootingireland.org, is the new first contact point for NTSA shooting; the NRPAI haven't set up theirs yet and the pages on the old NTSA site are still in use. I presume the NRPAI's PRO is working on it, but I don't know for sure.

Clash

Sparks wrote:

I presume the NRPAI's PRO is working on it, but I don't know for sure.

Who is the NRPAI PRO?, in fact relating back to my previous post, who are the officers of the NRPAI?. If they can't/won't put it on their website, perhaps you could put it here for all to see.

Or would that cause a flurry of writs?

gouda

Clash wrote:

Who is the NRPAI PRO?, in fact relating back to my previous post, who are the officers of the NRPAI?. If they can't/won't put it on their website, perhaps you could put it here for all to see.

Or would that cause a flurry of writs?

An email to the NRPAI should get you that info and perhaps you can raise your other queries with them. Always better to deal with the organisation concerned directly,that way you get the official response rather than other peoples opinions.

GreenGun

Why not just go straight to the horse’s mouth?
I’m sure they will be happy to answer all your questions.
This contact information is taken of the NRPAI web sight.

National Rifle and Pistol Association of Ireland.

P.O. Box 9, Blackrock Sorting Office, Blackrock, Co. Dublin, Ireland.

Phone: 087 9007501. E-mail; NRPAI@eircom.net

Sparks

I could tell you who the Chairman, PRO and Treasurer are Clash, but couldn't name the others off the top of my head (though I do know the Secretary's name, I don't know the guy and am rather embarressed to say I can't remember his name off the top of my head). But to get the full list, you'd be better off emailing them, if only to save my ears from being slapped in case someone thinks I'm speaking for the NRPAI...

Clash

Sparks wrote:

But to get the full list, you'd be better off emailing them

Yes, of course I could do that. But that's not the point. This is an organisation that purports to represent shooters of all calibres and the least we could expect is that the officers names would be published. If I send an email, I will presumably get a reply which would be deemed to be private, and therefore not publishable.

The tenor of the replies to my post would lead a sensitive soul like me to believe that people are afraid to publish the names here. Why the secrecy?.

As an example, would Sparks be willing to post the names of the current committee of the NTSA?

Sparks

Clash wrote:

As an example, would Sparks be willing to post the names of the current committee of the NTSA?

They're already up on the website along with photos (where I had them), here. You do need to have signed up to the website to get them, but that's more because of how the website software is set up than any policy decision. The committee was always listed on the old site prior to now anyway, like this (that's last years committee btw, not the current one).

GreenGun

Clash wrote:

The tenor of the replies to my post would lead a sensitive soul like me to believe that people are afraid to publish the names here. Why the secrecy?.

The tenor of the reply matched that of the question.

There is no secrecy.

As with any association or committee the members can change from year to year. To avoid some one forgetting to change the information on the web page they have simply left if off.
Please ask them and if you like you can post it here I’m sure no one will mind!

Clash

GreenGun wrote:

The tenor of the reply matched that of the question.

There is no secrecy.

Well I apologise if the tenor of my post invited secrecy, I presume you refer to my 'flurry of writs' comment which was intended as a (very weak) joke.

This is a discussion forum, and I had asked the question because I could find no information on the website. The discussion that prompted my question, related to a previous thread where it was stated that the Chairman of the NRPAI was not informed of the trip to Austria (possibly because the organisers did not know his/her email address).

I was directed to ask the NRPAI by email for their list of current of officers because I would only get 'opinions' on this board. So I'll rephrase the question

"In your opinion, who are the officers of the NRPAI?"

Seriously though, I could email the NRPAI, ask for the information, ask for permission and if all that came through, post it here.

And we would be in exactly the same position as we are now. The NRPAI would still not be informing us of anything other than by request (always assuming that they would respond to such a request). The real point is that we do not know what they are about until after it has happened, and there is no forum for us to agree/disagree with any future plans of the organistaion that purports to represent us.

Maybe I am wrong about this, and I would be happy for anyone here to point out just how wrong I am (with backup documentation etc. ). But the response to the 'who are they?' question does not bode well.

As an example; In Britain you can read the GBTSF policies on their website, and it also keeps visitors up to date on current news and future developments. It seems that here we have to wait until something has happened before we know about it.

gouda

Clash wrote:

Well I apologise if the tenor of my post invited secrecy, I presume you refer to my 'flurry of writs' comment which was intended as a (very weak) joke.

This is a discussion forum, and I had asked the question because I could find no information on the website. The discussion that prompted my question, related to a previous thread where it was stated that the Chairman of the NRPAI was not informed of the trip to Austria (possibly because the organisers did not know his/her email address).

I was directed to ask the NRPAI by email for their list of current of officers because I would only get 'opinions' on this board. So I'll rephrase the question

"In your opinion, who are the officers of the NRPAI?"

Seriously though, I could email the NRPAI, ask for the information, ask for permission and if all that came through, post it here.

And we would be in exactly the same position as we are now. The NRPAI would still not be informing us of anything other than by request (always assuming that they would respond to such a request). The real point is that we do not know what they are about until after it has happened, and there is no forum for us to agree/disagree with any future plans of the organistaion that purports to represent us.

Maybe I am wrong about this, and I would be happy for anyone here to point out just how wrong I am (with backup documentation etc. ). But the response to the 'who are they?' question does not bode well.

As an example; In Britain you can read the GBTSF policies on their website, and it also keeps visitors up to date on current news and future developments. It seems that here we have to wait until something has happened before we know about it.

Yes. Not only that but as an individual member of the NRPAI you will not even have voting rights because Clubs nominate delegates and if you are not a Club member you cannot be a Club delegate. In other words small numbers of shooters from a very small number of Clubs collectively decide what is best for all the disciplines represented by the NRPAI, with little or no interest in Sporting Rifle shooters. This situation could be changed by a proposal from a Club but how do non Club members persuade the Clubs to possibly relinquish power by allowing non Club members have a vote? I would love to see this happening but will not hold my breath. The NRPAI will take membership fees from individuals but their membership is akin to being a Lady Member of Portmarnock Golf Club with no voting rights. Incidentally,I believe the Chairman and Treasurer were informed prior to the trip to Austria, at least there has been no post denying it or any statement issued from either Chairman or Treasurer in spite of me asking Sparks to see if he could persuade them to respond.

Sparks

gouda wrote:

Yes. Not only that but as an individual member of the NRPAI you will not even have voting rights because Clubs nominate delegates and if you are not a Club member you cannot be a Club delegate.

Gouda, are you sure you're not confusing the NRPAI with some other group?
The NRPAI, to quote from the constitution dated Feb 2001, "is made up of Associations representing the different disciplines of shooting sports.
Currently Affiliated;
National Target Shooting Association
National Silhouette Association
National Association of Sporting Rifle associations
Pony Club Target Shooting Association"

There's nothing in there about club memberships, or even individual memberships. I know there are individuals signed up as members of the NRPAI - that's a rather odd practise I've never gotten a satisfactory explanation for, to be honest. The NRPAI, after all, is not a national governing body. It's own constitution forbids that - "Associations will be autonomous organisations solely responsible for the supervision of their own particular disciplines. They shall authority and responsibility over their own particular organisation in matters of discipline, safety, coaching under their own constitution / rules / regulations."

The NRPAI, in other words, was set up as an umbrella body to liase with what was the predecessor to the Irish Sports Council. So why individual memberships?

In other words small numbers of shooters from a very small number of Clubs collectively decide what is best for all the disciplines represented by the NRPAI, with little or no interest in Sporting Rifle shooters.

Not quite - the way it works is as follows. The four constituent bodies of the NRPAI listed above - the NTSA, NSA, NASRC and IPC - nominate two of their people to go forward as NRPAI committee members at the NRPAI AGM. At the first meeting after the AGM, those committee members nominate the various officers of the NRPAI. They then act as the committee until the next AGM. If a constituent body wants a change in the organisation, they bring it up at a committee meeting and the committee votes on it. Individual clubs aren't offically recognised at that level, but rather the national governing bodies are. Clubs are meant to talk to their NGBs (which is a bit confusing as one club might have several NGBs - Fassaroe was affiliated to the NTSA, the NSA and the NASRC at one stage, for example (I'm not sure what their present situation is)).

Incidentally,I believe the Chairman and Treasurer were informed prior to the trip to Austria, at least there has been no post denying it or any statement issued from either Chairman or Treasurer in spite of me asking Sparks to see if he could persuade them to respond.

Hold up there gouda. I passed on the URL for the thread to the Chairman and the Treasurer - so far they've not responded.

However, I can confirm that on three seperate occasions prior to the Tirol Open, I spoke with them about it to raise my concerns with the PR implications of us taking part - first informally in public at the Rathdrum Autumn Open, where neither had heard anything from the NRPAI about it; I then sent an email with all the details I had on the situation to them; and I then spoke to them about it in an NTSA meeting on the record, at which time (the monday before the competition), they'd still heard nothing about it from the NRPAI and the first meeting at which they could raise it was scheduled for the following Tuesday (it was later deferred for scheduling reasons). Now unless you're saying that I'm lying or they were lying, you pretty much have to accept that they hadn't been informed!

gouda

Sparks wrote:

Gouda, are you sure you're not confusing the NRPAI with some other group?
The NRPAI, to quote from the constitution dated Feb 2001, "is made up of Associations representing the different disciplines of shooting sports.
Currently Affiliated;
National Target Shooting Association
National Silhouette Association
National Association of Sporting Rifle associations
Pony Club Target Shooting Association"

There's nothing in there about club memberships, or even individual memberships. I know there are individuals signed up as members of the NRPAI - that's a rather odd practise I've never gotten a satisfactory explanation for, to be honest. The NRPAI, after all, is not a national governing body. It's own constitution forbids that - "Associations will be autonomous organisations solely responsible for the supervision of their own particular disciplines. They shall authority and responsibility over their own particular organisation in matters of discipline, safety, coaching under their own constitution / rules / regulations."

The NRPAI, in other words, was set up as an umbrella body to liase with what was the predecessor to the Irish Sports Council. So why individual memberships?

Indeed. Individual members have no rights under the current system but still have to pay.

Sparks wrote:

Not quite - the way it works is as follows. The four constituent bodies of the NRPAI listed above - the NTSA, NSA, NASRC and IPC - nominate two of their people to go forward as NRPAI committee members at the NRPAI AGM. At the first meeting after the AGM, those committee members nominate the various officers of the NRPAI. They then act as the committee until the next AGM. If a constituent body wants a change in the organisation, they bring it up at a committee meeting and the committee votes on it. Individual clubs aren't offically recognised at that level, but rather the national governing bodies are. Clubs are meant to talk to their NGBs (which is a bit confusing as one club might have several NGBs - Fassaroe was affiliated to the NTSA, the NSA and the NASRC at one stage, for example (I'm not sure what their present situation is)

[QUOTE=Sparks Hold up there gouda. I passed on the URL for the thread to the Chairman and the Treasurer - so far they've not responded.

However, I can confirm that on three seperate occasions prior to the Tirol Open, I spoke with them about it to raise my concerns with the PR implications of us taking part - first informally in public at the Rathdrum Autumn Open, where neither had heard anything from the NRPAI about it; I then sent an email with all the details I had on the situation to them; and I then spoke to them about it in an NTSA meeting on the record, at which time (the monday before the competition), they'd still heard nothing about it from the NRPAI and the first meeting at which they could raise it was scheduled for the following Tuesday (it was later deferred for scheduling reasons). Now unless you're saying that I'm lying or they were lying, you pretty much have to accept that they hadn't been informed![/QUOTE]
Not wishing to accuse anyone of lying but I would like a definitive response from those people left out of the loop as my information is that they were informed.

gouda

Sparks wrote:

Gouda, are you sure you're not confusing the NRPAI with some other group?
The NRPAI, to quote from the constitution dated Feb 2001, "is made up of Associations representing the different disciplines of shooting sports.
Currently Affiliated;
National Target Shooting Association
National Silhouette Association
National Association of Sporting Rifle associations
Pony Club Target Shooting Association"

There's nothing in there about club memberships, or even individual memberships. I know there are individuals signed up as members of the NRPAI - that's a rather odd practise I've never gotten a satisfactory explanation for, to be honest. The NRPAI, after all, is not a national governing body. It's own constitution forbids that - "Associations will be autonomous organisations solely responsible for the supervision of their own particular disciplines. They shall authority and responsibility over their own particular organisation in matters of discipline, safety, coaching under their own constitution / rules / regulations."

The NRPAI, in other words, was set up as an umbrella body to liase with what was the predecessor to the Irish Sports Council. So why individual memberships?

Indeed. Individual members have no rights under the current system but still have to pay.

Sparks wrote:

Not quite - the way it works is as follows. The four constituent bodies of the NRPAI listed above - the NTSA, NSA, NASRC and IPC - nominate two of their people to go forward as NRPAI committee members at the NRPAI AGM. At the first meeting after the AGM, those committee members nominate the various officers of the NRPAI. They then act as the committee until the next AGM. If a constituent body wants a change in the organisation, they bring it up at a committee meeting and the committee votes on it. Individual clubs aren't offically recognised at that level, but rather the national governing bodies are. Clubs are meant to talk to their NGBs (which is a bit confusing as one club might have several NGBs - Fassaroe was affiliated to the NTSA, the NSA and the NASRC at one stage, for example (I'm not sure what their present situation is)

Pity it wasn't all left under the NRPAI. I seem to recall that it was the Target shooters who brought about the break up into NSA,NTSA,NSRA etc. back in the eighties. Sandy would have more info as he and his wife were on the NRPAI Committee back then.

Sparks wrote:

Hold up there gouda. I passed on the URL for the thread to the Chairman and the Treasurer - so far they've not responded.

However, I can confirm that on three seperate occasions prior to the Tirol Open, I spoke with them about it to raise my concerns with the PR implications of us taking part - first informally in public at the Rathdrum Autumn Open, where neither had heard anything from the NRPAI about it; I then sent an email with all the details I had on the situation to them; and I then spoke to them about it in an NTSA meeting on the record, at which time (the monday before the competition), they'd still heard nothing about it from the NRPAI and the first meeting at which they could raise it was scheduled for the following Tuesday (it was later deferred for scheduling reasons). Now unless you're saying that I'm lying or they were lying, you pretty much have to accept that they hadn't been informed!

Not accusing anyone of lying but I would like a definitive response from those people left out of the loop as my information is that they were informed.

Sparks

gouda wrote:

Indeed. Individual members have no rights under the current system but still have to pay.

I'm still not sure why the NRPAI should even have individual members, to be honest. And no-one's ever been able to give me a good reason either.

Pity it wasn't all left under the NRPAI.

Well, that's a tough one to consider because the NRPAI back then was a very different group to the NRPAI of now, from all the accounts I've heard over the years. I've also heard that they were not a perfect group either, any more than any group of people ever are!

I seem to recall that it was the Target shooters who brought about the break up into NSA,NTSA,NSRA etc. back in the eighties.

Since the NRPAI back then was all made up of target shooters anyway, that's a given.

The NTSA was founded to look after olympic target shooting specifically because at the time, smallbore ISSF shooting was felt to be ignored and underdeveloped; but it didn't fracture the NRPAI as it then existed into the four groups it's now comprised of. The NTSA was set up in the mid-80s and made a company under the companies act in 1992, the NASRC was founded sometime in between those two events, and the NSA split off from the NASRC in 1994 but it had been about for two years prior to that as a part of the NASRC. The pony club have always been seperate, and the setting up of the NRPAI in its current form actually brought them closer into the fold than further out, so to speak. So it was a gradual process, not one big fight that left everything in a mess.

Not accusing anyone of lying but I would like a definitive response from those people left out of the loop as my information is that they were informed.

And mine, from speaking to the people themselves, face-to-face and on the minuted record of an NTSA meeting, is that they weren't...