We have to hammer the faroes on wednesday!

evilhomer

after our fantastic draw in paris last night, the four main competitors in the group are still all square! (with israel looking more like greece in euro 2004 all the time)

I have a feeling this group could come down to goal difference at the end. with the swiss hammering the faroes 6-0 they are ahead only on goal difference.
we need to go out and play them off the pitch on wednesday. it would be such a slap in the face to miss out because we didn't put the smaller teams away by a good margin.

1-0 or even 3-0 isn't good enough IMO.

Gwan Ireland

Pigman II

Ireland don't 'do' trouncings. So we'd be better off worrying about winning 1 (or all) of our home games v France/Swiss/Israel and hoping for the best.

bizmark

Think we will win 3-0 on wensday i also think we will Beat the swiss and Israel at home draw with france at home and with Israel away we should be fine from there on in.We proved last night we CAN play really well just need to do it more offen against the likes of the swiss and israel away

thejollyrodger

Last night was defintely a good boost in terms of belief. We can easily beat the faores 6 nill. We beat Cyprus 3-0 and totally took the foot off the gas. I hope Ireland start the game with everything they showed in the first 20 minutes last night and keep the whole thing going for the 90 minutes. There is no follow up game so they might as well give it everything.

Goal difference is going to be important. There is no point in selling yourself short if you know you can score goals and may need a good goal difference later in the group.

At the same time we really have to concentrate on winning our home games : -
Home

Faroes - win + 5/6 goals
Israel - win
Switzerland - win
France - win hopefully

Away :-

Cyprus - win
Faroes - win
Israel - draw

The tricky games will of course be away to Israel and maybe even Cyprus.

I hope kerr goes for an attacking line up on Wednesday. I would play a 4-3-3 but I think kerr will go with the following : -

_______________Given
Carr______O Brien______Cunnigham_______O Shea
Reid______Keane_______Kilbane________Duff
__________Keane______Morrison

That is providiing that Morrison and Roy Keane can play. I would give another game to Kilbane in the centre of the pitch. Reid has proven that he has ability against the likes of Cyprus so I would defintely start him.

I think France were a little unsettled last night because the French coach is now talking about dropping Henry because he has "problems in his head".

KdjaCL

1-0 is enough goal diff dont count against teams lower than you , only the teams you tied on points with.

So atm assuming swiss and france and us are top 3 we doing well with 1 away goal and only 1 conceded.


kdjac

Big Ears

and anyway , if we can somehow pull off a small miracle by beating Israel home and away we should top the group , providing we don't lose at home to France or Switzerland .

Draupnir

exactly Big Ears, the way it stands now, beating Israel home and away is the golden ticket to get us to the world cup direct

Guy:Incognito

i think some major heads could roll if France end up in the play-offs or not qualifying. Doing badly in a tournament is one thing, but for one of the percieved big teams in the world not to qualify would be disasterous(sp?)

Boro

So who is going on wednesday? For what its worth i reckon it will be a ****e game but hopefully we will score a rake of goals. Well, we do need to. As well as the goal difference thing, hopefully it will mean robbie and clinton (if he plays) getting a few goals - which can only be good for their confidence.

gsand

Looks like clinton is out anyway

Kerr to revert to reid on the wing and duff upfront?

That could be a more potent mixture especially against someone like the faroes...

midget lord

also roy keane is 'injured' and could be out. But wait, did anyone actually expect him to play against the faroes?

Pigman II

midget lord wrote:

also roy keane is 'injured' and could be out. But wait, did anyone actually expect him to play against the faroes?

Really? That's terrible! How unfortunate for us ... and I never even saw it coming! :rolleyes:

Now don't get me wrong, considering the point he's at in his career I don't mind The Traitor picking and choosing the games he plays for us but I wish he'd be a man and just come out and say this is what he is doing instead of blaming it on non-existant 'knocks'.

As it was mooted before the group kicked-off an arrangement might be made whereby he might play 4 games for us (Swiss/France h+a) but now that Israel are proving no pushovers will he no longer have 'knocks' on those dates either or will we still only be getting his services for 4? I'd really like to know!

BaZmO*

Pigman II wrote:

Really? That's terrible! How unfortunate for us ... and I never even saw it coming! :rolleyes:

Now don't get me wrong, considering the point he's at in his career I don't mind The Traitor picking and choosing the games he plays for us but I wish he'd be a man and just come out and say this is what he is doing instead of blaming it on non-existant 'knocks'.

As it was mooted before the group kicked-off an arrangement might be made whereby he might play 4 games for us (Swiss/France h+a) but now that Israel are proving no pushovers will he no longer have 'knocks' on those dates either or will we still only be getting his services for 4? I'd really like to know!

In all fairness I think it was quite obvious from the start that Roy Keane wasn't go play in the match against the Faroes but I do agree with you regarding the silly excuses that they come out with all the time. People would think more of him if he was just honest about it.
But it is worth bearing in mind that he is on a yellow card so if he was to pick up another yellow he would miss the match against Israel.

Also, why does everybody keep saying that we need to score loads against the Faroes? We don't. We just need to win the match. As has been said already, goal difference only counts against the teams that we would end up on thesame points as.

B.

thejollyrodger

Also, why does everybody keep saying that we need to score loads against the Faroes? We don't. We just need to win the match. As has been said already, goal difference only counts against the teams that we would end up on thesame points as.

Great, 1-0 will do then

To be honest I really expected Roy Keane to have an injury in the game. But at the same time I know he isnt getting any older and whats the point in playing him against the likes of the Faroes??

I would rather give the likes of Kavanagh a game who isnt getting any younger either and he was disapointed that he didnt play for Ireland before more often. He is very effective so just play him. Everyone's happy:).

Kerr has a duty to get all the Man Utd players back in one bit, if he wants future co-operation from Man Utd. The club doesnt get a cent for internationals so maybe thats why they are so pissed about it.

The real big game is Israel away, If Roy Keane helps us get a win there I would be delighted.

I hope Morrison is fit for wednesday, it seems unlikely though, he didnt sleep with the pain saturday night and is having a scan. There is an article here

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/international/republic/news/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=soccer/04/10/10/SOCCER_Republic_Morrison.html

Töpher

Better safe than sorry tho, aye?
We could win 2-0 and miss out on top spot due to GD (presuming level on points with Swi/Fra), or we could win 6/7-0 and obtain top spot by having greater GD.

There'd be uproar afterwards if we missed out on 1st/2nd place due to not trying in the "training matches", and it is possible, so for saftey's sake I'd say we need to put quite a few past them!

Boro

Well it cost us first place in the last world cup qualifying group. Not that it mattered too much in the end, but it could have. The only thing is, as Pigman II said earlier

Ireland don't 'do' trouncings

We never seem to be able to hammer teams - was Lichenstein (the 5-0 i think - where David Connolly got a hattrick or so) the last one?

woosaysdan

BaZmO* wrote:

Also, why does everybody keep saying that we need to score loads against the Faroes? We don't. We just need to win the match. As has been said already, goal difference only counts against the teams that we would end up on thesame points as.

B.

yeah but i always thought that this only came into play if the two teams were tied on goal difference when the group stages were over and everyone was tied on points

ie

---

p--w--d--l--gd--pts
ireland 8--7--1--0--15--22
switz 8--7--1--0--15--22

with ireland having a goal difference of 15 and switzerland the same then the ireland V switzerland and switzerland V ireland game would go down to who scored the most goals etc

BaZmO*

woosaysdan wrote:

yeah but i always thought that this only came into play if the two teams were tied on goal difference when the group stages were over and everyone was tied on points

ie

---

p--w--d--l--gd--pts
ireland 8--7--1--0--15--22
switz 8--7--1--0--15--22

with ireland having a goal difference of 15 and switzerland the same then the ireland V switzerland and switzerland V ireland game would go down to who scored the most goals etc

I don't know whether we're getting crossed wires here or whether I'm right in saying this (if anybody has the definitive answer on this please feel free to let us know) but I was under the impression that if say for example France were to top the group on points and Ireland and Switzerland were to come joint second on points the decider would be the results between the 2 sides i.e. the team that got the better result from both games or scored the most away goals if it was 2 draws or similar. So as it stands, if we were to beat the Swiss at home or hold them to a 0-0 draw we would go through if at the end of the group we were level on points.

(I hope all that makes sense!!)

B.

bizmark

click
Morrison will miss wensdays game as he will be out for a month after damageing his knee.

thejollyrodger

personally i think Irealnd should concentrate on winnning its home games and getting a point at worst in the away games. If we concnetrate on that then we will win the group.

A draw away in Israel is a requirement, a win would be great. We really have to beat the faroes wednesday and beat the french with all their players back and of course the scummy swiss at home. There is no reason why we cant do that being at home. We have beaten lots of teams throughout the years at home.

It all continues wednesday, where i hope to see an irish side really putting away the faroes like the cyprities in the first half.

Boro

If two teams come level in a group, AFAIK the first comparison is on the goals scored in the games between the two teams - as if it was a two legged tie - away goals count.

The second check is on goal difference.

The third check is on goals scored.

eg if france and ireland both top the group

1. check to see the best result - eg 0-0 in france and 1-1 in dublin, france go through.if it was 0-0 in dublin, then next step.

2. ireland score 10 goals, concede 3 for a gd of 7. france score 9 and concede 2 also for gd 7. next step.

3. ireland win by goals scored, 10 v 9.

4. i think then that if they are level after that - it either goes alphabetically (in which case we had better start getting known as Eire in the fifa rankings ) or theres a playoff at a neutral venue.

At least thats how i think it happens

eirebhoy

The only instance goal difference comes into account is if the two teams get the exact same result both home and away.

Teams level on points in each first round group will be separated according to the following criteria:
a) Points obtained in matches between the teams in question.
b) Goal difference in matches between the teams in question.
c) Goals scored in matches between the teams in question.
d) Goal difference in all group matches.
e) Goals scored in all group matches.
f) Drawing of lots.

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/tiebreakeffect.html

smemon

evilhomer wrote:

after our fantastic draw in paris last night, the four main competitors in the group are still all square! (with israel looking more like greece in euro 2004 all the time)

I have a feeling this group could come down to goal difference at the end. with the swiss hammering the faroes 6-0 they are ahead only on goal difference.
we need to go out and play them off the pitch on wednesday. it would be such a slap in the face to miss out because we didn't put the smaller teams away by a good margin.

1-0 or even 3-0 isn't good enough IMO.

Gwan Ireland

spot on my friend, agree with you 100%, thats what we need more of, confidence, a bit of arrogance even.

this is the new ireland, capable of beating anyone, anywhere. a 2-0 win is not good enough for ireland, a WIN is not good enough for ireland, only a HAMMERING is good enough. we should be looking at 6/7 more maybe.

if the crowd are up for it we'll rattle the hell out of the faroes as they arent used to loud support.

anyone who comes on here and says 'oh, a win will do, we just need the 3 points' is insulting ireland. no bloody way will a 2-0 win do against a pub team which you or i could make no bother. we have world class players at our disposal that have challenged and beaten the worlds finest time and time again, scraping a win against of the worst sides in the world is not good enough.

thejollyrodger

I agree totally, we have a great team and can play some great football. I would like to see Ireland rip this team apart and crank up the goal difference. 6 nill to even things out and 7-0 to set us ahead, which is something that is not beyond us.

BKtje

While i would like to see a hammering i dont think Ireland do them. Dont have enough quality up front imo.

Id say we'll win by about 3 goals tho of cours ei hope for more

scojones

I don't know why you lot are hoping for a win against france at home. We should be hoping to beat the Swiss. They're a great side, always topping their group.

thejollyrodger

I think now would be a good time for robbie to show what he's made of.
Ive €5 on him to score more than 2 goals :eek:

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

I think now would be a good time for robbie to show what he's made of.
Ive €5 on him to score more than 2 goals :eek:

He has never scored more than 2 goals in any of his 50 odd caps and I can't see him doing it in the form he's in, especially if he's partnered with anyone other than Doc or Lee.

thejollyrodger

Kerr sounds as though he is planning a strong team and wants to play like they did in Paris. I think Ireland should go through them and there will be tons of oppurtunities for Keane to score. I know he will get one, whether he will get the second is the question.

kilkennycat2004

Pigman II wrote:

Ireland don't 'do' trouncings. So we'd be better off worrying about winning 1 (or all) of our home games v France/Swiss/Israel and hoping for the best.

Unfortunately this is more or less true. We don't do away wins against major nations either but the record at Lansdowne may now see us through.

KevIRL

kilkennycat2004 wrote:

Unfortunately this is more or less true. We don't do away wins against major nations either but the record at Lansdowne may now see us through.

We also need to worry about away games against weaker nations I think. Away to Isreal and and even away to Cyprus. We have gotten crap results against weaker teams away in recent times (Lichenstien, Macedonia, Iceland).

The Isreal away game in March is gonna be hugely important. Should Roy Keane have 'done a Beckham' in the last few mins in France and gotten himself booked (without admiting it afterwards obviously) in order to be suspended for the Faroe game? As things stand if he plays against the Faroe's and gets a yellow then he misses Isreal away.

Pigman II

A little off topic but since so many people here are so horny about us scoring a bagful against the Faeroes it might interest you to know that Ireland have never qualified for a tournament in which we've won a qualifier by more than 4 goals. eg WC82, Euro84, Euro92, Wc98, Euro2000.

evilhomer

eirebhoy wrote:

The only instance goal difference comes into account is if the two teams get the exact same result both home and away.

Teams level on points in each first round group will be separated according to the following criteria:
a) Points obtained in matches between the teams in question.
b) Goal difference in matches between the teams in question.
c) Goals scored in matches between the teams in question.
d) Goal difference in all group matches.
e) Goals scored in all group matches.
f) Drawing of lots.

I would have to say the chances of ireland drawing 0-0 with france in lansdowne, and 1-1 with the swiss are fairy high!
so then if we are on the same points as either team at the end we will need goal difference.

we have an awful habit of drawing games!

The Rooster

Two of the 8 group runners-up will qualify automatically without the need for a play off.

Anyone know how that is decided. Might be another reason to pile on the goals.

However, I do think people are under-rating the Faroes. The 6-0 was a freak result by all accounts, some of which can be put down to a heatwave in Switzerland at the time. The Faroes have received no suc hammerings in recent times and have got a number of results, including against Scotland. I know we're better than the Scots, but on a bad day we're capable of being poor.

And the Faroes are better than Cyprus IMO. We only beat them 3-0 in Lansdowne, and they reckoned they played below par (for them). 3-0 would be very good tonight - though I agree that if we do get early breakthroughs and their heads go down, we should do our best to steamroll them, and show no mercy as we seemed to do in some games in the past.

eirebhoy

The Rooster wrote:

Two of the 8 group runners-up will qualify automatically without the need for a play off.

Anyone know how that is decided. Might be another reason to pile on the goals.

That is actually a very good point, we could easily come second with the same amount of points as another second place team and therefore it would (most likely) go down to goal difference. Never thought of that.