Waterford Crystal - Enhanced Performance?

threebeards

There were plenty of jokes going round about this after the gold medal - mocking is catching?

From rte.ie/news.

O'Connor's Olympic gold in jeopardy: reports


Olympic champion Cian O' Connor declined to comment on reports that his horse 'Waterford Crystal' has failed a doping test.

Friday, October 08 2004 3:15
The Equestrian Federation of Ireland will this afternoon release a statement on allegations that Waterford Crystal, the horse that Cian O'Connor rode to an Olympic gold medal, has failed a doping test.

It's understood that the statement will include a copy of the letter sent by the International Equestrian Federation in Switzerland in relation to the drugs test.

RTÉ News understands that, if the reports that Waterford Crystal was interfered with are found to be true, O'Connor will be asked to return his showjumping gold - Ireland's only medal of the Athens Games.

24-year-old O'Connor won Ireland's first-ever equestrian Olympic gold when he steered the 13-year-old gelding through a flawless final round in the final of the individual showjumping final last August.

RuggieBear

oh please tell me this is a piss take..!?!

The amount of abuse i got from my english girlfriend's parents, about Ireland's Olympic performance, was almost unbearable. :eek:

threebeards

RuggieBear wrote:

oh please tell me this is a piss take..!?!

The amount of abuse i got from my english girlfriend's parents, about Ireland's Olympic performance, was almost unbearable. :eek:

Nope! Prepare for more I'm afraid - here's an update from the same source.

Medallist's horse failed doping test

08 October 2004 16:21
The Equestrian Federation of Ireland has confirmed that Waterford Crystal, the horse ridden by Olympic Gold Medal winning showjumper Cian O'Connor, failed a doping test in Athens.

In a statement, the federation said Mr O'Connor would be requesting that a 'b' sample from the horse be tested.


Mr O'Connor's win last August in Athens was Ireland's first-ever Olympic gold in an equestrian event.



Staff and riders at his stables have reacted with disbelief to the news.

But sources close to the showjumper point out that horses have tested positive before for substances that were later traced to feed innocently supplied by the owners.

Pherekydes

See, a sport where you place your trust in an animal that has no morals is not a sport.

Animal-free Olympics!!

Pherekydes

Headline should read:

Waterford Crystal's dream shattered

10000maniacs

Slow coach wrote:

See, a sport where you place your trust in an animal that has no morals is not a sport.

Animal-free Olympics!!

Yes very true. cheating animals are a scourge on the olympic ideal and should be banned.

The Rooster

The thread is titled "enhanced performance?" and the answer to that is No.

However, drugs to aid recovery when injured are just as illegal as drugs to improve performance when fit, and therefore from the limited information in the public arena so far, it looks to me like we're going to lose our gold medal.

I put most of the blame on the vet who gave the drugs - James Sheeran.

In the Irish Times today it says Sheeran has been using the tranquilising agent for "years and years" without any problem.

"I felt extremely safe giving this medication. I didnt feel there was any possibility that any traces would be found".

i.e. I knew it was an illegal drug but I've never been caught before so I didnt think I'd be caught this time!

The bad news is they had a new and improved testing procedure for the Olympics, so the drugs showed up.

I hope there is a weakness or error in what I'm saying, because otherwise our gold medal is gone, and gone in disgrace.

Pherekydes

The Rooster wrote:

I hope there is a weakness or error in what I'm saying, because otherwise our gold medal is gone, and gone in disgrace.

You should never hope for weakness in what you're saying. If it's the truth, then that should be enough.

As regards "our" medal: I don't consider equine sports as sports so when I count medals I leave out those sports. (Just my own opinion)

It also seems that the drug administered was a sedative, so what's all the fuss about?

The Rooster

What I meant was that its the truth as I see it, but maybe I'm seeing it wrongly, or not seeing it all.

I've no problem with equine sports, and sure horse racing is probably the sport in which Irish people have been most successful down the years - we always seem to have some of the best jockeys in the world. And personally I was lepping aound the place during the showjumping at the Olympics, cheering Cian and the other Irish on, and wishing ill-luck to Nick Skelton and the rest of the foreigners!

It also seems that the drug administered was a sedative, so what's all the fuss about?

Its a banned substance. Doesnt matter what it does or doesnt do, if its banned you cant take it. And presumably there is a reason that it is banned.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

SweetBirdOfTruth

comments here worth checking out:

http://www.loopdiloop.com/folderol/2004/10/drugs-in-sport-cian-oconnor.asp

threebeards

The B sample is gone missing - the plot thickens!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1101/oconnorc.html

RuggieBear

this is taking the piss...............

threebeards

RuggieBear wrote:

this is taking the piss...............

That's so bad it's brilliant!!

The Rooster

Its still unclear whether it was a complete batch of tests that were taken or just the Waterford Crystal test - which was only identifiable by a barcode!

If just the WC test, then I can only think of two reasons:

- the robber did it as a type of kidnapping to seek a ransom for the test from interested parties

- the robber was paid to do it by somebody

Also the robber would probably have to be an insider of some sorts, i.e. somebody working in the Cambridge lab or the Paris lab or in FEI or with the courier company........ or anyone else who might have access to the barcode info

If no B sample tests positive, then Cian and WC cannot be found guilty and they will keep the gold medal. But in those circumstances I'm sure most people will view it as tainted and Cian will be as much as an outcast as our only holder of multiple Olympic gold medals is.

If this was in a book, you'd say it was unbelievable nonsense!!!

RuggieBear

The Rooster wrote:

If no B sample tests positive, then Cian and WC cannot be found guilty and they will keep the gold medal. But in those circumstances I'm sure most people will view it as tainted and Cian will be as much as an outcast as our only holder of multiple Olympic gold medals is.

in my mind, it's tainted already..... it's such a pity that all the medals we have won recently have had some controversy surrounding them....

Kalina

RuggieBear wrote:

in my mind, it's tainted already..... it's such a pity that all the medals we have won recently have had some controversy surrounding them....

You're right, the whole scandal surrounding the medal won't ever be forgotten and will hang oover Cian whether he loses the medal or not. It's a terrible pity- in my opinion Cian O'Connor is a hard-working and excellent horseman and I don't think he would ever cheat or do anything to put his horses in danger.

Pherekydes

Kalina wrote:

It's a terrible pity- in my opinion Cian O'Connor is a hard-working and excellent horseman and I don't think he would ever cheat or do anything to put his horses in danger.

Well, it seems he did, but the evidence has now conveniently gone missing.

As President Doyle asked "Who benefits?"

Everybody directly involved, including the federation...

The Muppet

Slow coach wrote:

Well, it seems he did, but the evidence has now conveniently gone missing.

As President Doyle asked "Who benefits?"

Everybody directly involved, including the federation...

There is something very strange going on her, It appears to be very organised and who would have the contacts and backup to organise something on this scale. I doubt very much if Cian would.

Its grossly unfair to say Cian cheated if the evidence to prove that is not available.

Pherekydes

The Muppet wrote:

It appears to be very organised and who would have the contacts and backup to organise something on this scale. I doubt very much if Cian would.

Its grossly unfair to say Cian cheated if the evidence to prove that is not available.

I didn't say he cheated, but it seems as though something illegal was given to the horse. And he is a major beneficiary. The equestrian federation is also a major beneficiary. I'm not saying he had anything to do with the missing piss. But the EFI are in charge of prosecuting the case, and they bask in the reflected glory of an Olympic gold. Major conflict of interest, wouldn't you say?

Pherekydes

The Muppet wrote:

Its grossly unfair to say Cian cheated if the evidence to prove that is not available.

Some would say that the fact the evidence has gone missing is itself indicative of foul play. Some would ask what other reason is there for it to go missing?

The Muppet

Slow coach wrote:

Some would say that the fact the evidence has gone missing is itself indicative of foul play. Some would ask what other reason is there for it to go missing?

Well the first question to be answered is who is responsible for it going missing. I dont know how one would organise something to go missing from the post in another country I would imagine thats quite complex. Secondly even if the Horse was doped which I believe it was how would you prove who administered the substances. I,m sure there will be many more questions to be answered before this case is dropped as it will have to be unless the B sample resurfaces.

The Rooster

It appears to be very organised and who would have the contacts and backup to organise something on this scale. I doubt very much if Cian would.

Not many people would have the contact to pull this off, but Cian most certainly would. Money is power, and Cian is friendly with very powerful men in Ireland.

But to be clear, I'm not saying that Cian or his Friends did do it, but they must be suspects. But the other suspects are the Enemies of Cian, and even Avril Doyle MEP has said Cian has many of those (probably not surprising given that power and success are two things that can easlily lead to enemies).

It also seems certain that it was the "enemies" (who unfortunatley I cant even guess as to who they are!) who broke into the Irish headquarters and stole the documents and faxed them to RTE.

even if the Horse was doped which I believe it was how would you prove who administered the substances.

If its in the horse then your guilty, it doesnt matter who administered it. But I'm sure it was Cian and his vet. They both admitted it afterwards, though they said it should have been out of his system by the time of the test. Also his other horse tested positive for the same substances and he admitted guilt at that time - not even requesting that the B sample be tested in that instance. It is interesting to note that his wins on that horse were cancelled out and he had to return his prizemoney, but no ban was given. A bit funny that the offence is considered serious enough to warrant disqualification but not serious enough to warrant a ban - couldnt be called a deterrent.

Its a bit annoying hearing Cian today saying he disputes the findings from the A sample and is delighted some element of the B sample is available for sampling so he can clear his name. This knowing full well the B blood sample will be negative, as the A one was, and the B urine sample, which would have tested positive, is missing.

I say "would have tested positive" as it had been mentioned more than once during Olympics coverage in the summer that there has never been a case where an A sample and a B sample came up with different results.

The Muppet

The Rooster wrote:

If its in the horse then your guilty, it doesnt matter who administered it. But I'm sure it was Cian and his vet. They both admitted it afterwards, though they said it should have been out of his system by the time of the test.

I have to admit I am puzzled by the goings surrounding this story. As I understand it Cian and the vet admitted administering sedatives but not the ones named in the document faxed to RTE which are used more in human medicine than vetinary. I doubt very much if we will ever know what has really happened in this case.

Just to claify my point about it being unfair to call cian a cheat. Technically if the horse is doped the combination of Rider and Hores are considered guilty and should be banned . If the rider knew nothing of the doping I don't think it's fair to lable him a cheat

The Rooster

So the B Blood Sample is positive.

I'm shocked at the news as the word was the A Blood Sample was negative, it was just the urine that was positive, and that was all that needed to be stolen!

The statement issued by Cian and his team seemed quite a good story (though admittedly they've had a while now to come up with a good one), but I am now much less sure about their intent to cheat.

Aquos76

Cian O Connor has tonight been stripped of his olympic Gold medal. Full story can be found in the link below,

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0327/oconnorc.html

Amz

According to the equestrian writer for the Irish Times, who was speaking on the radio on Friday, he'll most likely get it back if he goes to appeal the decision in the court of arbitration in sport.

I don't think anyone's too bothered really, it's just an incredibly slow news day here.