Is my grievance reasonable?

shoegirl

I am a permanent employee at a small Irish branch of a very large multinational and have been working there for over 2 years. My track record is excellent: I have received very good results in all performance reviews since I started. However things have taken a turn for the worst recently.

My company is going through a painful transition where basically we have lost a considerable amount of business due to part of the company we belong to being sold off. This resulted in the loss of a large contract I was working on in a specific role, and the company had a number of voluntary redundancies. (Although they were voltuntary, there was subtle pressure on some people as they decided to do the redundancies by role rather than team, and it is believed that it was used as a vehicle to get rid of better paid or employees perceived to be difficult. Basically teams were told that if a certain number didn't leave off each group that their manager would have to select people for compulsory redundancies). As a result my function and role vanished and I have been moved into a different role. I was not consulted before this happened, and I applied for other openings that came up after the redundancies were agreed. I was turned down for all those roles, and told I would be taking up the role I am in now. I stress the word TOLD, my opinion and feelings were not solicited, nor was there any consultation as to which direction I would have liked to go.

The problem here is that the previous role I was in I was basically "invited" into. At the time the internal "promotional" procedure was virtually non existent and positions were being filled by nomination rather than by open competition. I accepted this position at the time (though I didn't really feel I had much of a choice) but afterwards when I applied for a different role I was told that I was "assigned" to the previous job for 2 years. (Despite the fact that it was not a promotion and I didn't a get a pay rise or upgrade!) As a result I have not only faced the last 16 months in a role I did not expressly seek, but now I am facing an undetermined length of time in a role I did not only not seek, but didn't want at all.

Now basically part of the problem with my current role is that its really a non-job. Basically its picked out a piece of middle managements job (the tedious bits) and given that to somebody on a lower grade and pay and without the authority to get the job done. Furthermore, there are now 2 of us doing this role (one had previously gradually moved into it and wasn't unhappy doing it), but there is really only 3.5 hours work per day between us. I am still at the same grade, however both of these roles came from another branch office where it was more junior to my old job. So naturally, I feel both demoted, but also bothered at the fact that I am simply being reassigned into different jobs and am being refused the right to do a job I have actually applied for. I am also extremely unhappy in this role, its quite clear to my manager (and my lack of interest in the role was clear even before the old contract was lost as she did suggest me applying for another role, which is transpired I did not have the full requirements to do, as it was not fully specified in a 4 page job description). The role I am in at the moment not only has 3.5 hrs work for 2 people, but the tools provided do not work, and my colleagues complaints that she is unable to function with non-operational tools has fallen on deaf ears.

I am agressively seeking other work at the moment and am hopeful to leave, but is there any procedure I can take within my employer on a statutory basis to handle my greviance? Also I suspect that this may be constructive dismissal.

Any ideas as I am extremely unhappy with this situation at the moment?

Fabrizio

Hey,

I think you would definetly have a case for Unfair dismissal becuase by the sounds of it they are trying to force you to resign, and in turn saving them from paying you a redundancy package. I am studying HRM and this is something that our lecturer has told us about, however it is difficult to prove. I think you should try and talk to someone like a Employment Officer (your employers should have one considering they are part of a multinational) or hope that something comes up in the meantime.

Hope thats any good.

WhiteWashMan

I would have to say not really.

you were given an alternative position. thats the least they have to do.
i suspect if you look at your contract it will tell you that they can change your job description at any time.
if it doesnt, youre a happy man, and something legal can be done, otherwise, they have changed your job description. they havent changed your pay or benefits.

your alternative was to leave, but you chose to stay.
the fact that you are in the position for almost a year and a half will be seen as complience on your side. i dont think you can argue constructive dismissal after working in the same position for 16 months because you dont like it.

i think your best option at this stage is to either advance yourself in the company you are in someway (which doesnt seem an option?) or to do what most people do, get another job.

to an outside observer, this situation looks as if you are being sour grapes about the whole affair and are trying to gain some sort of compensation for being bored in yur job for a year and half.

shoegirl

WhiteWashMan wrote:

the fact that you are in the position for almost a year and a half will be seen as complience on your side. i dont think you can argue constructive dismissal after working in the same position for 16 months because you dont like it.

i think your best option at this stage is to either advance yourself in the company you are in someway (which doesnt seem an option?) or to do what most people do, get another job.

to an outside observer, this situation looks as if you are being sour grapes about the whole affair and are trying to gain some sort of compensation for being bored in yur job for a year and half.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Somehow you seem to have misread my entire post. I was in my previous job for 16 months, and quite happy with it. I was only moved two weeks ago and so have only been in it less than 2 weeks. I was not consulted at all about the move, even though it was clear that my previous job (of 16 months, have I made that clear?) no longer existed, and there were other roles available that I had expressed an interest in (i.e. applied for through normal procedures). I was moved into this role without consultation. I have not been doing it for 16 months, I have been doing it for 2 weeks. That is very, very different than the scenario you seem to have invented.

It is therefore not sour grapes, but a sense of having been deliberately put into a position for political reasons, despite the fact that position is not even a necessary one (or at all suitable for my skillset, come to think of it). However there is also the fact that for the last 16.5 months I have been in positions (2 positions!) that I did not apply for, and so have been moved around now for the second time (although 16.5 months ago they did take the trouble to ask me was I interested in doing the job, no such luck this time).

WhiteWashMan

shoegirl wrote:

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Somehow you seem to have misread my entire post. I was in my previous job for 16 months, and quite happy with it. I was only moved two weeks ago and so have only been in it less than 2 weeks. I was not consulted at all about the move, even though it was clear that my previous job (of 16 months, have I made that clear?) no longer existed, and there were other roles available that I had expressed an interest in (i.e. applied for through normal procedures). I was moved into this role without consultation. I have not been doing it for 16 months, I have been doing it for 2 weeks. That is very, very different than the scenario you seem to have invented.

It is therefore not sour grapes, but a sense of having been deliberately put into a position for political reasons, despite the fact that position is not even a necessary one (or at all suitable for my skillset, come to think of it). However there is also the fact that for the last 16.5 months I have been in positions (2 positions!) that I did not apply for, and so have been moved around now for the second time (although 16.5 months ago they did take the trouble to ask me was I interested in doing the job, no such luck this time).

sorry, mis read your post. no need to get arsey about it.
i read this

As a result I have not only faced the last 16 months in a role I did not expressly seek,

as you have been in this position for 16 months.

anyway, so you are now in a job which you dont like, but which you didnt apply for.

does your contract say they can change your job description?

did they offer you redundency?


by law, the only thing they have to do is offer you either redundeny, or an alternative job. the job does not nessecarily have to match your skill set, but has to show they are willing to try and keep you on. they cannot change your benefits or your remuneration, but they can ask you to a do job that you may not be trained for. of course, its up to them to train you to do it to a reasonable level.
then it becomes an issue of constructicve dismissal.

quite frankly, im confused by whatever has happened here. i cant seem to understand what has happened over the last 17 months.
you got a job. 16.5 months ago, they put you into a new role you didnt like.
2 weeks ago they put you in a new role you dont like.

is that correct?

Trojan

Looks like it's a pretty emotive issue...

Yeah, it sucks. Quit before it takes you down, sounds like you're not going to get any positives out of the situation.

Any chance of a voluntary redundancy coming up again? At least you get the package

shoegirl

did they offer you redundency?

No.

you got a job. 16.5 months ago, they put you into a new role you didnt like.
2 weeks ago they put you in a new role you dont like.

is that correct?

Not quite. 16.5 months ago I was asked if I wasnted to move to a different role. I did and loved it, was extremely happy in the role. However, due to restructuring the role vanished and I was told I would be doing a different role, which I have been doing for the last .5 months. Hope thats a bit clearer. Sorry I was angry but I was angry at the fact that I was accused of being whiny.

What I am angry about is that I have applied for different jobs in the company 6 times in 10 months and the first 4 were turned down because they "wanted me" in the job that disappeared. They were also well aware of the precarity of this role. Basically I was told I was not allowed to move from a role that subsequently vanished.

I did not receive the required training for the new role and had to ask for it. I was told I would receive it but this hasn't really happened. Others who were moved into other teams (but doing the same role) were given training that I should have been sent on. I am increasingly believing that there is a definite constructive dismissal camapaign running against me (and that I was forced into this role to protect my manager, to ensure that he/she would have enough people to maintain her managerial role, despite the fact that the role is not even required!)

stormin

This is a very difficult situation and one that occurs all too often. What is interesting here is that you have applied for different jobs in the company 6 times in 10 months.

Were you qualified fot those positions?

If so what was the justification for not moving/promoting you into one of those roles?

Prima facie this could be construed as discrimination or bias and therefore within the realms of employment legislation.

This can be a very stressful and even depressing situation and you need to create a documentary summary of the past 2 years (since you started with the company). Take this to a solicitor with knowledge of or who specialises in employment legisaltion. This initial consultation is often free and he will very quickly tell you if there is a case or not.

Mulling it over in your head gets no positive results. Create the summary, stick to the facts and get answers from an expert. If there is no case then get your CV sorted. You'll feel a lot better if you move forward.

WhiteWashMan - if you are offered an alternative position in a redundancy scenario then it does have to match your current position within a certain percentage (I can't remember the exact percentage but it's about 60% - difficult to prove though) and you have a period within which you can leave the new position.

Shoegirl - Have they given you a new contract/job spec. to reflect your new position?
Are you a permanent employee or a fixed term contractor?
Is there a HR department?
How many were made redundant within what size department/company?
Were there any compulsory redundancies?
Were there too many volunteers for redundancy and therefore a selection committee created?

C Fodder

This may be considered totally unhelpful in this situation but here goes.
In the past when I worked for a number of multinationals and a scenario arose for people like yours quite a number of old hands got out of it by doing that part of the job they were qualified or expert in well and making a complete hash of the rest of the job. As long as they did not upset one of the senior management they tended to get moved on quickly to a new job (often with a promotion).
High risk strategy that doesn't work in small or medium businesses or projects. Takes a bit of skill, hard neck and diplomacy to pull it off.

pebble

stormin wrote:

WhiteWashMan - if you are offered an alternative position in a redundancy scenario then it does have to match your current position within a certain percentage (I can't remember the exact percentage but it's about 60% - difficult to prove though) and you have a period within which you can leave the new position.
?

It all becomes a bit hazy, but I am not aware of the period in which you can leave bit. Perhaps if they had offered a redundency package perhaps, but since none was offered, what are you going to leave to?

Im sure there are some rules about being moved into a position, but if I recall, you just need to be able to either do it, or be be trained in it. Ie. you wouldnt have a techie going into a finance managers position! But then again, I would wonder at the logic within any company that would do that!

I don't know what the rules around no redundency being offered are, so there could be a constructive dismissal case there, but there are extremely hard to go for, especially in a case where alternative employment has been offered, and it doesnt sound like there has been any huge 'reduction' in responsibilty etc. It simply sounds as if this person has been moved into a position she doesnt like, due to a restructuring of the company.

I am unsure where you stand with regards to not being 'allowed' to move due to your value in the last role, but it honestly doesnt sound like there are any conspiracies here, or dark forces at work. it simply sounds like you are unfortunate to be pushed into a job you dont like.

HOWEVER...

they do have to give you a new contract to reflect the change in job role, so there may be some way to negotiate something in that.
Otherwise, the only thing I can realistically see is you doing the job, or leaving. I dont think there is a constructive dismissal case there, but I'm not an employment expert, and this advice in no way constitues legal advice

By the way, with regards to WhiteWashMan calling you whiney, I think he was merely implying that from your original post, the way you wrote what you wrote, could be seen (in his words) 'sour grapes'.
Don't mind his brash ways. If he was going to say you were moany, I think we all know, he would just say it
He's really a sweetie

shoegirl

What is interesting here is that you have applied for different jobs in the company 6 times in 10 months.

Were you qualified fot those positions?

-Yes and had interviews for all of them. I was told last week that I was "too good" at my existing job at the time of the first 3 applications to move me (even though it was already possible that the contract I was working on was likely to be lost).

If so what was the justification for not moving/promoting you into one of those roles?

-See above. In scenario number 4 and 5 I had applied for two different positions at the same time (similar positions) and was told to choose between them. It was strongly implied that one of the roles was pigeon holed for my colleagues and the other for me, however they didn't get me (or anybody else) the full job spec and I was faced with the decision to make when told there was a full US security clearance requirement (which would have been a problem for me since I had debt problems a couple of years ago and they wanted to credit check me). As a result I was forced into a position where I had to choose perference for the role that appeared to be pigeon holed for my colleague (who did indeed get offered the role). Shortly afterwards I applied for a job closely related to the one I was forced into (but slightly more interesting, more related my skills and better paid) but I was told that the reason I wasn't given the role was because my "process knowledge" was insufficient even though the main requirement of the role I was forced into was "process knowledge!"


Shoegirl - Have they given you a new contract/job spec. to reflect your new position?
- No

Are you a permanent employee or a fixed term contractor?
- Permanent

Is there a HR department?
-Yes

How many were made redundant within what size department/company?
-about one quarter of the workforce

Were there any compulsory redundancies?
-no

Were there too many volunteers for redundancy and therefore a selection committee created?
-Yes

RicardoSmith

Since it looks like you are being forced out anyway. What have you got to lose by making as fuss as you can. You might get something out of it, you might not. Make sure you print up all emails, documents, apprasials that you've had, you might need them as evidence. At the end of the day if the company is downsizing, and you don't have enough clout, then you're going to be let go eventually. Everthing is pointing that way.

lazernuts

I presume here that the position you applied for was something akin to a team lead/supervisor position. I'd suggest, based on your "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" retort, that maybe your people skills may be an aspect in which you are lacking. I would think that, a team lead position in a helpdesk would be a position that specifically requires people skills.