How do you know when a relationship dies?

LegacyUser

Last night I told my girlfriend of 9 years that I didn't think I loved her like I used to, and that I wished I could see a future for us. While the statement was sudden, the thinking behind has been going on for a few years now - I can certainly recall a time at the end of 2001 when I had similar concerns.

The thing is, we live together, own a house together and have been through a hell of a lot together. Before when I had these concerns I would, in the end, convince myself that doubts were natural and that we had a good relationship. That would be fine until the doubts re-appeared.

Most recently the doubts have been more-or-less constant. Last Saturday, for example, I resolved to 'try harder' to make the relationship work, and a mere 36 hours later, the doubts were back. For the first time, I am unable to see a future for us - even when I had doubts in the past, there was always an image in the back of my head, us growing old together.

As we approach 9 years together, we need to be seriously considering marriage. At the same time we are turning certain 'financial' corners, meaning that we could actually afford to get married in the next 12-18 months if we wanted to (you see, we made a conscious decision after 5 years to get a mortgage, and to get married when the dust had settled on it).

If I wanted to, I know I could suppress / ignore the concerns again, propose to her, start planning the big day, but when would the doubts re-emerge next - after we get engaged and have announced a date? The week before the wedding? Two years in to the marriage? After we have a couple of kids?

What I need to know is - how can you be sure that somebody is the right person for you. With last nights announcement we are in official 'crisis' mode, and I think between now and Christmas we have got to refind the love we once had or go our separate ways.

People say that they break up because one or the other has changed. As a final complication, the way we have changed in 9 years will make any break-up very difficult for her. Starting out we were both young, full of life, penniless, but with big plans. She was always the outgoing, ever happy one, me the quieter, often solemn sort.

Now she has reached a point where all her female friends have moved on / fallen out with her, her life pattern is sleep / work / TV (sleeping up to 10 hrs, TV up to 8 hrs a day), she is depressed and miserable about her job, cannot see a way out, and at 30 is starting to think she has already way past her best.

I, on the other hand have taken up new hobbies, made piles of new friends, have an active social life and have put together something of a career (though, the current job would not be my idea of bliss). Leaving aside the relationship difficulties, at 30, I feel my best has yet to come.

When I try to figure out why I have doubts, my mind comes back to the fact that in general, I need to be making someone else feel happy before I can be happy myself. When I look to my girlfriend now, and when I look at all the support I have given her without managing to make her happy in recent years, it is causing me to be very unhappy.

We are very different people, but I genuinely fear that 'breaking up' when the rest of her life is already so unsatisfactory, might seriously damage her, something I desperately want to avoid.

Any advice what to do next, anyone?

Beruthiel

the thinking behind has been going on for a few years now - I can certainly recall a time at the end of 2001 when I had similar concerns

this sounds like me back in the day. I was nearly ten years married with a kid/mortgage. For years I felt it was over, but because we had a kid I stuck with it for nearly 3 years. To say I miserable would be an understatement. It wasn’t even like I could come up with a huge strong reason why, it was just a lot of small things
for me, I put it down to marrying too young. In the end I had changed so much we just had absolutely nothing in common anymore. I nearly turned myself mad with the ‘will I stay, will I go’ thoughts running around in my head. I eventually knew I should not be this sad all the time so I left. Best thing I ever did!
Sure it was a mess for a while, but I still regret nothing and in the end everything worked out fine. At this stage we both have found other people that we are happier with, so I believe I did us both a favour.
How do you know that you should leave? Well if your gut has been telling you for years now that you are unhappy, then you are.
Bite the bullet I say and do what you probably know you should do. Leave and start over. I’m not saying it will be fun for a while, but in a year or so, I’m betting you will feel a lot better in yourself. You should definitely not stay because you feel guilt, that will never work.

The week before the wedding? Two years in to the marriage? After we have a couple of kids?

I have a friend who was with his g/f for 12 years, they had a kid. They got married and within the year were separated. When it’s not right, marriage will never cover up the cracks.

What I need to know is - how can you be sure that somebody is the right person for you.

You just feel it in your waters

Now she has reached a point where all her female friends have moved on / fallen out with her, her life pattern is sleep / work / TV (sleeping up to 10 hrs, TV up to 8 hrs a day), she is depressed and miserable about her job, cannot see a way out, and at 30 is starting to think she has already way past her best.

This is something she will have to sort out herself, and she will. It will make her stronger and she will make a greater effort to sort out her life. My break up was the makings of me!

at 30, I feel my best has yet to come

And you are correct, I have found it to be the best decade yet!
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck
a

pickarooney

A lot of that sounds familiar.
Do you find yourself imagining marriage and kids with other women - either actual women or just a generic other-woman?
If your girlfriend somehow got her act together, got a job, confidence, started smiling again, do you think the attraction would return? Do you resent her for holding you/herself/your relationship back despite your best efforts to understand her and love her for who she is?

LegacyUser

Beruthiel, thanks for the advice - you have confirmed some of my thinking. It sounds that it has all worked out well for you, but being this side of a break-up I guess it is difficult to see the rosy future at the end.

Pickarooney, your insight re: being with someone else is pretty much bang on. These other people range from random people to friends I have lost touch with to new friends I have made. I have not and would not encourage any action in this regard, these thoughts are all fantasy.

Yo answer your second question - yes, I do think that if she was more like her former self that I would love her as much as I once did - even though I am a different person now. I am not sure I resent her for holding me back. If I thought there was a way out of this - even if it meant waiting 5 years - then I would stick around.

I really wish she could be her happy self. I am struggling with the question of whether by walking away now will make her happier in the long term (a fresh start, etc), or less happier in the long term (can't get a good job, no friends, even lost boyfriend, home etc).

flygirl

WantsHelp, you need to make yourself happy first and foremost. Sacrificing your own happiness because you are afraid of hurting or damaging her is noble, but it will only make you unhappy in the long run, and make you resent her for staying with the relationship for her sake and not your own.

From what you've said, this isn't some whim you're having, you've had these doubts on and off for a long time and it has come to a head. You need to recognise this for what it is...it sounds like you already know in your heart that this may be the natural end for your relationship, so it's possible that you need to deal with that, and do whatever's necessary to move on.

9 years is a long time, for sure, and obviously both of you have invested everything in your relationship, but this happens and relationships do end, and people get through it, so it's better to know that you've made the right decision and get on with your life now - rather than creating an even worse scenario for yourself a year down the line by getting in even deeper with marriage etc.

It doesn't sound like she's very happy either, so a life change may be the best move for the both of you, despite the difficulties involved in actually making the decision.

You say that the best years are ahead of you, follow your gut and make sure that they are!

pickarooney

I can sense a bit of a catch-22 in that if you do leave her she'll be forced into a major change one way or another, as I doubt she could get by with no job. It's amazing how quickly you can adapt and change when you're forced into it (you could never imagine living blind until you lose your sight and HAVE to), the survival instinct kicks in etc.
Once that change happens, whatever form it takes, you might find yourself wanting desperately to be back with her.

I'm pretty sure the better you fare out (job, friends, etc.) the worse she feels, as she'll be comparing herself in a more and more negative light. You obviously don't want to give up these things to lessen the negative feelings she has (it wouldn't work anyway, you'd both resent yourselves), and it's probably hard to say anything encouraging to her without it sounding patronising (to her) no matter what way you try and put it.

I would say hang in there. The temptation to pretend to leave her in order to shake her up a bit must be there, but it's shaky ground.

As for kids, while it's not the best situation to be in to have them, what would your and her reaction be if she found out tomorrow she was pregnant? If you honestly think you'd be anything less than ecstatic (and scared witless) in your heart, there's a serious doubt about your future.
To be even more melodramatic, if, God forbid, you were to have an accident that left you unable to work, what do you imagine she would do? Her feelings of inadequacy and helplessness are all relative, really, compared to you and her own recent past. If she could see herself in a better light, she'd no doubt start living a little more.

LegacyUser

My decision to stay or go is predicated by my belief as to whether she can become happier in herself. My problem is I don't know whether that is possible in terms of our relationship - or when that might happen.

For the last 4 years we have tried everything - applying for all sorts of jobs, looking in to the possibility of her going to college, trying to find an activity she would enjoy and through which make new friends, etc. We have even discussed ,oving away from Ireland, although tbh her idea of where she'd like to live does not stack up (buy a Spanish apartment, go there, no lingo, no job, no career prospects for my 6 years in college, etc). I don't know what else I can do to help.

When we have discussed her unhappiness (as we have many times), she puts it down to lack of opportunities and lack of money. If only we had enough to enjoy life, if only we had enough to start a little business, if only we could afford to move away from Ireland. These things I cannot deliver on immediately, or perhaps ever - when is enough money enough, for example? What if she doesn't like the business we would set up? Where would I be if I leave the career and friends I have built up?

On the other hand, if we broke up, perhaps she could pursue some of her goals. The money from the house would pay for a college course, easily; she would be free to take any job in travel (which she would love to do), and most importantly she could escape the dull life that she seems to have made for herself. Maybe we would both be happier apart.

Or maybe that is just me looking for justification??

In the shorter term, I don't know what to say to her this evening when I get home.

Beruthiel

WantsHelp wrote:

she puts it down to lack of opportunities and lack of money. If only we had enough to enjoy life, if only we had enough to start a little business, if only we could afford to move away from Ireland

I don't believe that for a minute
'if's' make no difference at all, when I was married we had a bigger house than the matchbox I live in now and we had more money - yet now I am happier than I thought possible.
It's not what you possess that makes you happier, it's the people you surround yourself with and your out look on life.
She would seem to be looking outward for things to make her happy, when she should be looking inside

MojoMaker

wants help, sadly like a whole generation of Irish men you are probably holding back your woman with your limited outlook on life. Let her go, she may yet flourish.

She doesn't deserve to be shackled to a man that is so limited in his outlook that he thinks 'no lingo, no job, no career prospects'.

Life is what you carve out, not what you "should" do. Get flexible or lose her. Take the blinkers off and 'think out of the box', to quote a horrible American cliche which I hate.

Alternatively, if you don't fancy her and more and no longer want to **** her, then step aside also, cos there's bound to be a shed load of guys out there that do.

Esel

WantsHelp wrote:

... Starting out we were both young, full of life, penniless, but with big plans. She was always the outgoing, ever happy one, me the quieter, often solemn sort.

Now she has reached a point where all her female friends have moved on / fallen out with her, her life pattern is sleep / work / TV (sleeping up to 10 hrs, TV up to 8 hrs a day), she is depressed and miserable about her job, cannot see a way out, and at 30 is starting to think she has already way past her best.

I, on the other hand have taken up new hobbies, made piles of new friends, have an active social life and have put together something of a career (though, the current job would not be my idea of bliss). Leaving aside the relationship difficulties, at 30, I feel my best has yet to come. ...


Any advice what to do next, anyone?

Your say your partner is depressed. She is very unhappy in work, has lost her friends, and has fallen into a very boring routine. you describe her outlook as being very negative (my words).

Has she sought any help for her depression? If she is clinically depressed, or otherwise mentally ill, and if this was addressed and treated successfully, things would probably be a lot different for you both.

I am sure you will not decide to end your relationship based on the advice you receive in this forum. You need to explore all the issues a lot further before coming to a final decision.

I think that you should undertake some form of *professional* relationship counselling, hopefully with your partner involved. Find a good counsellor by trusted recommendation and/or referral.

I hope that things work out for you both, whatever your final decision is.

LegacyUser

Well things are at least civil at the moment, though it will be a couple more nights before we are ready to discuss things properly.

I think my approach will be to tell her that her happiness in life is most important - for her own sake, obviously, but also for me by virtue of the fact that I simply cannot stay in a relationship with someone who is fundamentally unhappy with life.

We could then explore how much being stuck in a relationship can help or hinder this. I do think that if we split up perhaps she could build a new happy life for herself, and once that is done, then maybe we could get back together. I would be willing to support her any way she needs to achieve this.

If she decides that she does not want to break up, but would rather try to rebuild her life and the relationship from where we are, then I am willing to do this, but only if we get some professional help. When I mentioned this before it always caused more rows (so, you think I/we need a shrink ..), but this time it has to be my bottom line. The danger with not getting this help is that things would go fine for a short while, but then revert to the same old, same old. If the relationship is to continue, I recognise that there would need to be serious changes on both our parts.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the advice. While I would not act only on internet advice, everyones contribution here (even MojoMakers!) has helped me enormously in clarifying my thinking.

LegacyUser

Stein Travel were advertising positions on their email bulletin's lately. From the sounds of things, your girlfriend needs to carve out her own life and getting a job would probably be the best way to do it: she'd get her own independence, more money, meet new people etc.

There are a ton of travel agencies in Dublin and most of them seem to have vacancies on a pretty regular basis (partly I think due to low salaries but in this instance I think the money would be of least concern).

Otherwise, there are a number of travel courses available. Have a look at the Irish Travel Agents Association website: http://www.itaa.ie/car_c.jsp. That gives details of a fairly affordable courses in Stillorgan or DIT.

It's said that before anyone can love you that you must first love yourself. Maybe this is the problem here and a new job is the first step?

LegacyUser

People say if you have to ask about a relationship, it's dead. I don't agree. It's normal to question things. And most of us do suffer from a grass is greener syndrome. But what's your gut feeling? When you wake up in the morning what's the first thing that you think about - do you have a generally good feeling about your relationship or a generally bad?

I'm 30 and recently split up with my boyfriend. We spent a year ripping each other apart at the end of what was for the most part a long and loving relationship. Even now typing this it brings tears to my eyes as to how two people that once were the happiest in the world transformed themselves into caricatures of their worst traits. By the time we split up, there were no tears left and no words left unsaid. We really tried everything and even when there was 1% of love left we'd try and it still wasn't enough. And we had become people we didn't want to be.

Towards the end of it I got ill from the stress. I truly believe emotional stress brings on physical problems. And I got this strange unexplainable virus. I was off work for 2 months, and during that time the boyfriend was inconsiderate, uncaring etc. So much so, I went home to my mother's. And for a whole month he didn't come and visit me (it's 5 minutes down the road and my parents don't particualrly like him but that wouldn't have been an issue). So that was a bit like a slap in the face that said 'wake up, he doesn't care'. So we split up, amazingly much to his surprise.

Since then I have my bad days and my good days. But I do feel free. Lonely yes, scared yes, 'past my best' yes but I have my own place, a good job, and more importantly my confidence and my self respect back. The mysetrious virus disappeared as quickly as it started.

It's not where I thought I would be in my life. This time last year we had got engaged, bought a house and 2.4 children and suburban life was on the cards. But I honestly honestly am happier.

On your girlfriend's depression if that's what it is, you obviously feel compassion. But it is not enough to stay with someone for reasons of pity. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness and you are not responsbile for hers, she is. You are responsbile for your own though!

In terms of practical advice, drifting is the worst thing long term. Set a review date (say a month) and have a good long think at that stage.

Beruthiel

asset wrote:

Lonely yes, scared yes, 'past my best' yes but I have my own place, a good job, and more importantly my confidence and my self respect back. The mysetrious virus disappeared as quickly as it started.

It's not where I thought I would be in my life. This time last year we had got engaged, bought a house and 2.4 children and suburban life was on the cards. But I honestly honestly am happier.

honey, you are no where near 'past your best'!
it's all about attitude!
as for the expectations, I've learned that if you decide not to have any, life is so much easier and happier.
Anyone who plans too far ahead is always disappointed, nothing ever turns out like it was supposed to. Live for now and the rest will fall into place.

Evil Phil

You situation sounds bad I broke up with my girlfriend recently and know about your doubts and fears. Its sucked but I'm better off for it. She's got a new job, a new hair style (why do women always do that after a break up?) and moved on too.

You'll know in your heart if its over or not. Therapy however is something you have to seek for yourself, be it psycho-therapy, grief counselling, relationship counselling the list goes on. You can't force her into it although suggesting it sounds like a really good idea. Hope this helps in some small way.

honey, you are no where near 'past your best'!

This is so, so true. 30+ women are the best, sexiest women ever. Rejoice!