The crowd in Whelans: world's worst?

dublinario

Yet again, I was astounded by the ignorance of the crowd in Whelans on Friday night. I absolutely despise the bunch of pseudo-hippy students that congregate there to ruin gigs on a regular basis. I went in to see Mundy on Friday night, but was actually more interested in seeing the excellent Declan O'Rourke who was playing support. As always, the crowd didn't shut the f*ck up for a single moment. True, they did quieten down for Mundy, but I have seen gigs when they haven't even quietened for the main act.

I'm not an overly confrontational person, but I am often motivated to shush people, and ask them to shut up at Whelan's gigs. I have never had to do this in any other music venue I can think of. I look around at the perpetrators (i.e. w*nkers) making the noise, and it's as if they are all the same person; clones of one perfect student a*shole. It makes my blood boil to picture these prats going back into college on Monday morning telling their classmates 'Oh, you should have seen [insert name of artist here] in Whelans, he/she was amazing', when they patently didn't stop babbling for long enough to actually hear a single song.

These people are not music fans. They are just people who want to meet their mates for a few pints and have a chat. But they are ostensibly too pretentious to do something as mundane as simply go to a pub, so they indulge in a collective farce that they are actually going to see a gig, when they have zero intention to paying the slightest of attention to the music. I couldn't give a f*ck if they pay attention or not, but when they chatter constantly, they ruin the gig for everyone, including the artist.

So I stand by my initial assertion: the Whelans crowd are the worst crowd in the world. Obviously I haven't been to every venue in the world, but I have travelled a fair bit, and I have never met such a consistently w*nkerish cohort of knobends, so intent on ruining gigs, in any venue of any country I have ever visited. Rant over.

Jim

I know what you mean. I went to see Mark Geary awhile ago with Ann Scott supporting. I was right up at the stage and could barely hear Ann over the gaggling mass of bodies. Ann stopped a few times and asked everyone to keep it down but to no avail.

Its just downright disrespectful imo.

ferdi

dublinario wrote:

These people are not music fans. They are just people who want to meet their mates for a few pints and have a chat. But they are ostensibly too pretentious to do something as mundane as simply go to a pub, so they indulge in a collective farce that they are actually going to see a gig, when they have zero intention to paying the slightest of attention to the music

i know and dispise this type of people,

i'm not a whelans regular and if these are the kind of ****ers going to whelans gigs, i will not become a regular any times soon.

Doctor J

I don't think it's a Whelans thing. There are assholes everywhere. Some people are more interested in thinking they're muso's rather than actually being capable of appreciating music.

fitz

It's always easier when you have a band.
People playing solo acoustic have a ****e time of it unless they are playing loudish.
A lot of acoustic artist are to quiet and arty for their own good with crowds like that.
Doesn't make those people in the crowd any less w*nkerish mind you...

I'm supporting Munds next month in Time out in Naas, where the crowds are mental apparently.
Thank God for having a band.

hell Kat

hay tony good luck with time
i was out there a few weeks ago to see bell x1 play and i was the only girl moshing with about 10 other blokes. should have seen the bruising on me the next day. well worth it tho. and the bellies kicked serious ass....and i got the set list, hurray! lol
best of luck with it

with regard to the whelans crowd, i used to be a fan of going there. used to be great - for the clubs. any time i did go to see a gig it was the same problem with noise.

but now another issue has emerged to my dismay. has anyone else noticed the destinct pungent oder following all those long haird, unwashed college students around. im in my final year myself, but im talkin about the grungy boys who think its cool not to wash for a week and then go to a club and emit all the fumes theyve been storing for the last 7 days and lace it through the crowd.

am i the only one noticing this?!?!

Mr E

Dolans Warehouse in Limerick is the exact same. Its not too bad with a big name main act, but an unknown support guy on his own with a guitar and a mic hasn't got a chance.

One great thing they did a few months ago during a Rodrigo y Gabriela gig was close the bar during the gig. It made the world of difference. But this is the exception rather than the rule.

shabbyroad

Same problem at standing gigs in the Olympia. Nothing worse than people talking when you're either trying to listen or play. Saw Jon Kenny in the Baggot Inn years ago and he stopped a whole table of them from ruining the gig by starting to sing a song called ' please help me I'm faaaaaaalllingggg.... ' at which point he fell forward off the stage and straight onto their table ... recently replenished with a serious round of drinks... they shut the fvck up then you can be sure...

tj-music.com

Going to concerts is one of my most famous hobbies and I have seen well over a 100 acts over the years. In general the Irish are less provocative than the Germans but I came across a lot of eejits over the years.

I had to leave a venue in Frankfurt once because Fans threw glass - bottles at others. How did they get in with bottles in the first place?

Saw Kraftwerk in Manchester this year (first row) and they sometimes got "out of sync" due to a gentleman who added unnecessary sound effects to some of the songs.

Also, when I saw Def Leppard last year there were women absolutely toxicated, stoned or whatever and they were headbanging and nearly hurt people. After watching for ONE HOUR the security finally intervened.

Leppard may have been great, I can´t remember a thing as I was too distracted by those "fans".

In general I think that security (if there is such a thing) is doing a lousy job most of the time.

magpie

Is this not all part of 'paying your dues'? I know a lot of accoustic artists struggle to hold the audience's attention, but I can think of two who managed it no problem (in support slots I might add): Paddy Casey and Damien Dempsey. First time I saw Casey he was on his sweeney with a guitar and absolutely brilliant. Within about 2 minutes of his first song everyone in Eamonn Doran's shut up and paid attention, not because he was loud, just because he as good. Dempsey got everyone's attention with his 'unique' vocal delivery.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I know there are ignorant azzholes at gigs who won't pay attention, but wouldn't it be just a bit too easy if all audiences were the perfect hosts? Everyone would be up there on the stage if they knew they would be listened to and get polite applause for their efforts. The history of music is filled with artists having to play ****ty venues, weddings, redneck bars etc to get started.

As they say, It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock'n'roll.

fitz

Valid point.
A lot of crowds will switch off when a solo artist gets up with an acoustic guitar mind you, and if you're playing a hushed song, regardless of how good it is, you can get drowned out by the crowd, depending on the venue.

dublinario

magpie wrote:

Within about 2 minutes of his first song everyone in Eamonn Doran's shut up and paid attention, not because he was loud, just because he as good.

Well, I personally am talking specifically about Whelans, not Eamonn Doran's.

magpie wrote:

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I know there are ignorant azzholes at gigs who won't pay attention, but wouldn't it be just a bit too easy if all audiences were the perfect hosts?

Why? That is total nonsense. People should go to gigs to listen to the music, and go to pubs to chat. Is there suddenly a shortage of pubs in Ireland, such that people need to meet in Whelans for a chat? The answer is obviously no. Unfortunately, in my opinion, Whelans gigs have long since been culturally adopted as a hang-out for people who aren't actually into music. It is a shame.

magpie wrote:

Everyone would be up there on the stage if they knew they would be listened to and get polite applause for their efforts.

Ludicrous notion. To pack out Whelans you have to be popular and good. To play support to a main event in Whelans, you are similarly going to have to be up to a relatively good standard. You make it sound like somebody could pack out 5 nights in Whelans playing nothing more than a collection of instrumentals on the Spoons.

magpie wrote:

The history of music is filled with artists having to play ****ty venues, weddings, redneck bars etc to get started.

So what? Whelans isn't remotely analogous to a Wedding, or a Redneck bar. It is supposed to be one of our median venues, a place for up and coming artists, particularly those knocking on the door of commercial success and widespread appeal. Some of the support acts, and indeed, main acts who play Whelans may have to endure chatter whilst playing in pubs and clubs 364 days a year. But Whelans is a music venue, and as such is held to different standards.

Doctor J

Acoustic artists tend to get the short end of the stick, regardless of their quality. I've been to too many gigs where the yapping began before they took the stage and never relented thereafter, merely becau6e acoustic acts usually aren't loud enough to drown out the bastids like a loud rock band can. If these muppets don't shut up and listen to the music, how are they ever to hear if it's good or bad? I think the gist of the whole thing is, if you want to yap to your buddies, then a gig isn't the best place in the world to do it. It has nothing to do with 'paying dues', it's just assholes who don't shut up and give the music a chance.

MarkF

seen the charlatans there. best gig ever. the whelans crowd are mainly students from mayo. take what u want from that

daram

Are you talking about the infamous whelans regulars. They all are complete wnakers but usually dont stray from the main bar. I went to the mundy gig when the walls were supporting. one of my mates and some of my own band were playing support and the crowd shut up for him. maybe because hes a bit of a whelans head himself.

still, they are 90% tossers.

machiavellianme

Surely your being a bit general. I resent the fact that you lump all students into the same category.I'm a postgraduate student.I'm in love with the rock n roll world so I try to catch at least 2 gigs every week whether here or in London as there is a much better scene over there.Just because people dress in a certain style or have long hair doesnt immediately make them students.I have several "working friends" (not prostitutes) who dress in a similiar manner to me.Its people having attitudes and not focusing on whats important (the music) that annoys me.So what if someone is singing along, or someone is talking to their friend during the support or main act.It annoys me too, but at the end of the day, its a pub/venue.Theyve paid in, their entitled to enjoy themselves, be it talking or hanging on the artists every word.What brings the night down is people whining about how great it would have been if no tossers were there.These people are everywhere.Deal with it.Any club/pub/gig its the same.And sometimes worse.Especially circa festival time etc.If you dont like what you hear, either move up closer to the band/amps and theyll soon be drowned out.Its what I usually do.Though I do love the front row just to see the chords the musicians are using etc to learn them myself.Anyway.People will never quieten down unless they actually want to themselves.Your just adding to the din by sushing them.As for the Whelans "crowd", every pub has a crowd.They might even be obnoxious in your local, but people tend to turn a blind eye unless theyre looking for something to whine about.I happen to like Whelans.Sure there are people there who annoy me but Thursday night usually throws up some good djs and yes, a lot of students.

MarkF

Nah its just ignorance. I don’t mind people commenting or talking briefly, but when you get one big load f%cker that wont shut up (I find they also usually laugh like a wild boar giving birth) its annoying. If you went to a poetry class and whilst somebody was reciting a poem, you had another person talking, they would be thrown out.

The main problem my old band had was playing quiet songs. Our set consisted of a lot of acoustic songs that were actually really good. But after awhile we couldn’t get people to listen, mainly cause they wouldn’t give us a chance or they were waiting for their mates to come on.

I mean, damo rice could play anywhere without a word been spoken now. I reckon when he first started he had the exact same problems. I also blame drink. If there was a more controlled atmosphere, like the coffee shop gigs in new york, I think this would give bands a better platform. But that wont ever happen, due to the fact that we’re a nation of piss head gobsh*tes

dublinario

machiavellianme wrote:

Surely your being a bit general.

I'm sure I am, but since I don't know the names of everybody at every gig, I have no choice but to resort to generalisations.

machiavellianme wrote:

I resent the fact that you lump all students into the same category.

Resent away. I was a student, did my four years in college, and as such I am not an outsider looking in. I am commenting on a world which I am more than familiar with.

machiavellianme wrote:

So what if someone is singing along....

Don't be disingenuous. Who the f*ck said anything about people singing along? Nobody.

machiavellianme wrote:

...or someone is talking to their friend during the support or main act.

People who are trying to listen to the music care. You remember the music, right? Isn't that the whole point of a gig? There is a bar at the back of Whelans. There is also a whole pub annexed onto the gig venue. Why not just come into the pit of the gig when ready to listen to the music? I'll tell you why not, because we are talking about a bunch of selfish, disrespectful f*ckers, who are more in love with the pretense of liking music (and the coolness it entails) than music itself.

machiavellianme wrote:

It annoys me too, but at the end of the day, its a pub/venue.Theyve paid in, their entitled to enjoy themselves, be it talking or hanging on the artists every word.

I pay into the cinema. But I don't go there to catch up with mates and chat about the weather.

machiavellianme wrote:

What brings the night down is people whining about how great it would have been if no tossers were there.These people are everywhere.

What are you rabbiting on about? I'm sure people, like myself, save their 'whining' for post-gig analysis. I assure you, I make the best of the situation whilst there.

machiavellianme wrote:

Deal with it.

I (and we) do. Not going to Whelan's would be not dealing with it. I still go. Doesn't mean I can't have a good oul cathartic rant about the situation at a later date, which is what this thread is.

machiavellianme wrote:

Any club/pub/gig its the same.

I disagree. I think Whelans is particularly bad.

machiavellianme wrote:

Your just adding to the din by sushing them.

Bullsh*t. What you say makes no sense. Shushing predominantly only occurs when somebody is playing support who has a very, very shallow sound. For example, there was no shushing during Declan O'Rourke last week, even though the chatter was, shall we say, more than ambient. I believe shushing breaks out when the crowd actually becomes empathetically embarassed for the artist, because nothing of their sound is being conveyed. And it usually does work, albeit temporarily. So rather than diss the people who occasionally offer a sympathetic 'shush' for a beleaguered musician, why not instead condemn that it should be necessary in the first place.

machiavellianme wrote:

As for the Whelans "crowd", every pub has a crowd.They might even be obnoxious in your local, but people tend to turn a blind eye unless theyre looking for something to whine about.

What a sh*t posting all round Machiavellianme. The fundamental axiom in debate here is that a gig is inherently different to a pub setting. Who gives a f*ck if a pub has an obnoxious crowd? How is that analogous to a cohort of thick, student pr*cks ruining a gig? Are you sure you're into music? Could the posture of your posting suggest that perhaps you are one of the very student a*sholes this thread is attacking? Do you like to have a good ol' chat at a gig?

machiavellianme

Am I sure Im into music?
Hmmm, let me think.I have 2,500 original albums in my collection (not even 1 cdr), have been to over 90 gigs this year and have travelled to 6 different countries to catch bands I love this year alone.I even go to most gigs on my own as my friends arent big into music. Ok, sorry for that, it may be perceived as sarcasm, but I to be honest comparing a cinema with a gig just isnt on.There are different circumstances involved.Your just upset as your precious support bands cant be heard.Most people who go to gigs couldnt care less about support bands.To be completely honest, many of them are just filler. Its not surprising people arent quiet for them.Are you sure your not one of those people who like to run into work on a monday morning and go "guess who I saw "SUPPORTING" blah blah at the weekend?"
So what if you did your stint as a student for 4 years? On graduation did you receive a big degree saying "congratulations you are no longer considered an a**hole in Whelans?" I didnt when I graduated.Maybe its because I continued into the postgraduate field? A lot of the people I've met at Whelans arent students.They may dress like them, but their working and at the end of the day it IS a pub and nightclub.People will congregate and chat in such places. In fact friday and saturday night appear to be an older crowd than most students.I'm 24, and I would consider a lot of the people in attendance to be older than me on those nights.

dublinario

machiavellianme wrote:

I have 2,500 original albums in my collection (not even 1 cdr), have been to over 90 gigs this year and have travelled to 6 different countries to catch bands I love this year alone.I even go to most gigs on my own as my friends arent big into music.

Wow! That would be really impressive, if it wasn't so f*cking nerdy to be counting your albums and gigs. Hilarious.

machiavellianme wrote:

There are different circumstances involved.Your just upset as your precious support bands cant be heard.

'My' precious support bands? How are they 'my' support bands? They are part of the gig.

machiavellianme wrote:

Most people who go to gigs couldnt care less about support bands.To be completely honest, many of them are just filler.

I'm sorry, but I don't care how many Madonna CD's you own, or how many times you've flown out of the country to see Westlife (still laughing at the run down you gave us of your musical CV), but anybody who fails to see anything wrong with affording a musician on stage no respect, does not love music. It matters not a whit whether the punter knows or cares about the artist, or whether, to the venue, the artist is mere 'filler'. The point, which seems to be soaring miles over your head, is that there is an abundance of places (even in Whelans itself, let alone beyond) to stand, drink and talk, without ruining the gig for the artist, or the people who want to hear the music.

machiavellianme wrote:

Are you sure your not one of those people who like to run into work on a monday morning and go "guess who I saw "SUPPORTING" blah blah at the weekend?"

Quite sure. Last week was the first and only time in my life that I have gone to a gig specifically intending to see the support act. Declan O'Rourke is not obscure, he headlines Whelans himself regularly, and is in fact playing 3 nights in Whelans this month. Hope that's cleared things up for you.

machiavellianme wrote:

So what if you did your stint as a student for 4 years? On graduation did you receive a big degree saying "congratulations you are no longer considered an a**hole in Whelans?"

It's perfectly possible that I could have been regarded as a student a*shole in some ways. But I never contributed to the ruination of gigs, and hence your allusion to hypocrisy doesn't fly.

machiavellianme wrote:

Maybe its because I continued into the postgraduate field?

Machiavellianme, you have posted twice now, and both times felt compelled to tell us you are a postgrad. Why? Wouldn't saying 'student' suffice? Coupled with the hilarious musical CV you proffered at the start of your last posting, I would have to surmise you have serious self-esteem issues.

machiavellianme wrote:

A lot of the people I've met at Whelans arent students.

And a lot of them are. You are an awful debater Machiavellianme.

I'll tell you how I perceive our arguments as being fundamentally divergent. You are trying to explain why something is the way it is, which is fine. I'm saying that, irregardless of 'why' it is the way it is, it isn't right. You are attempting to defend the indefensible by explaining the causal factors. A significant portion of the crowd in Whelans talk incessantly during gigs. Nothing you say is going to make that justifiable, because it isn't. You may explain it, but you can't justify it, and therein lies the crux of the matter.

daram

Im with dublinario on this one. machiavellianme completely comes across as a complete wannabe muso who somehow managed to spend 50,000e on cds and probably has a nice hifi. Doesnt give you the right to ruin other peoples nights out. Have a bit of respect.

Doctor J

How the hell can a student afford 2500 cd's by the age of 24 and go to London regularily for gigs (let alone the "6 other countries")? Damn, I'm a compulsive cd purchaser and I don't have 2500 cds and I'm over 30!

If you were a real music lover, as you seem keen to impress upon us, you would show at least a little respect for the support band, because every one of the artists whose cd's you have bought has been the support at act some stage of their career. Are you suggesting if one of your favourite bands was playing support to someone you would be happy to talk over their set because "To be completely honest, many of them are just filler" That's not something someone who is into music would say? That's the type of thing someone with no repect for musicians and their art would say. Someone who is truly into music will always be receptive to new music. Always. Even if I'm witnessing the shyttest band of all time as support at a gig I would never try to hold a conversation over their performance. Why? Because taste is a personal thing and anyone with the balls to get on a stage and do their thing deserves respect, regardless of how it moves me.

Tell me, machiavellianme, do you go to Whelans a lot?

machiavellianme

Ok setting the story straight.
I do own 2 madonna cds.Ray of light was excellent and somehow the immaculate collection also found its way into my cd player at one point.
How many times have I flown to see Westlife? None.But if I was asked to review a gig, I probably would.
Did I at any point state I spent vast quantities of money on CDs or gigs?
No.
Most of my cd collection has been aquired second hand be it from ebay or various shops around town.Ebay has also provided me with an opportunity to make some money, funding further purchases as I often buy CDs that are deemed rare and sell them to other Collector friends for a small profit.Ok, Im taking advantage, but theyve also done the same to me for certain rarities. I also aquire quite a few CDs from my part time job, I review albums and gigs for a certain magazine and take CDs rather than cash as payment.
As for talking over gigs, I dont.I'm too caught up in the music.I stated earlier that I go to gigs alone as my friends dont like music much.I'd look pretty odd talking to myself as a band played.I'm just saying that people have a right to freedom of speech and the musicians who get up onstage should realise that not everyone is there to see them.Some people might have just tagged along with a friend for a night out or some people might even be there for a different artist.I personally agree, in an ideal world, people would have the decency to be courteous and keep quiet allowing the artist to perform.Unfortunately its not an ideal world.People will talk.I'm just saying to get used to it because its not going to change.As for artists having the balls to get up on stage and perform, most of these people are professionals and as such should be prepared for disturbances.I've played in bands and been booed off.It is most upsetting, but at the end of the day, theres more to life.
I dont go to Whelans that much.Well not as much as I'd like to.There are too many quality gigs on elsewhere every week to spend every night in Whelans.
Personally I find the point,vicar street, voodoo and the village to be much worse for the offences against the artist stated.The temple bar music centre also sees its fair share of posers for certain higher profile gigs.I just felt that the "regular" Whelans crowd were getting an unfair bashing for being students or for talking over gigs, especially as a lot of these people are there for up to 3 nights most weekends and people who happen to be there once in a while start picking on them.Did it ever occur to Dublinario that the artists he/she admires draw these type of people to their gigs? Earlier this year, the Bronx played whelans, (theyre a hardcore band) and I can guarantee there was no talking while the artists played.If there were any ideas of talking, the amps drowned them out. So as I said before, if you dont like the din around you, move closer to the stage.

daram

machiavellianme wrote:

I've played in bands and been booed off.It is most upsetting.

Aha. Bitter failed musician. Much clearer now.

Doctor J

machiavellianme wrote:

As for artists having the balls to get up on stage and perform, most of these people are professionals and as such should be prepared for disturbances.

Emmm, in an ideal world maybe, but there aren't too many bands who play the likes of Whelans who make a living out of music. In fact, quite a lot of bands at that level (even those who tour interantionally) have to subsidise their income by working regular jobs when not touring. So you could say semi-pro, at best. Then again, you were making a song and dance about the "filler" support bands. I can guarantee most of the support bands you see in Whelans definitely aren't professionals, in the sense that they make a living off music. An artist shouldn't have to turn up a wall of Marshalls to be heard, it's just that simple. Regardless of their stature, regardless of their financial status, regardless of their musical style, regardless of anything, if you want to talk to your buddies, **** off away from the music and the people who have paid in to listen to the music. The crowd Whelans attracts have always been known for being too talkative, hence the signs that they put up a few years ago requesting people don't talk when the artists are performing.

machiavellianme

Bitter failed musician??? Hardly. My band is more of a mock group than a rock group. Its just a laugh.I'd rather provoke an audience than stun them with awful drivel.
God the way some people are carrying on, is as if they have a right to judge.I'm not defending the people who chat during gigs.All I'm saying is that its unfair to blame all regular Whelans goers and students.Personally I'm not a huge fan of the acoustic/bland rock nonsense that seems to be popular in Dublin and the rest of the country.Damien Rice, the frames,Declan O rourke etc, but I'm not bashing the people who go to Whelans to see these artists nor am I knocking the artists as they are talented in their own rights and deserve respect while playing as does anyone(unless they clearly dont mind hecklers etc) . On the otherhand, I recognise that Whelans is also a club, and therefore may not have fans of the particular artist in the audience.Just because you see familiar faces at gigs doesnt mean they are to blame.In the past, several of the loudmouths who have annoyed me were there to see the main act, were not regulars and were sporting the artists t shirts.So I would ask that people dont lump regulars and students into the abusive annoying category.That is all

magpie

Jesus, simmer down guys. Whelan's is hardly Castle Donnington. I have yet to see a 2 litre of piss hurled at anyone on stage, whether they deserved it or not.

All musos are precious about their art, but sadly not everyone in the audience gives a ****. That's life. Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it, as Camp Jim says.