Carbon tax

Skr4wny

Whatever happened the carbon tax? Have the government backed down on it. I thought it was a wonderful idea and would be disappointed to the say the least if it has been shelved. It would've really helped with achieving the Kyoto treaty targets.

Skr4wny

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=2608

capistrano

The government announces a couple of months ago that they would be no carbon tax in the next budget.

Personally, carbon taxes are okay so long as it's not just a means of generating extra revenue. If a carbon tax is introduces then some other taxes should be reduced to compensate. Although I doubt that's what would've happenned.

Here's an Examiner article google turned up about the irish carbon tax: carbon tax article

AngelofFire

I think it is a good idea provided that the money raised goes towards making genuine improvement to the environment and unlike the bin tax not into the coffers of a private company, and that people are compensated by having their pensions,welfare, minimum wage etc increased.

capistrano

AngelofFire wrote:

I think it is a good idea provided that the money raised goes towards making genuine improvement to the environment and unlike the bin tax not into the coffers of a private company, and that people are compensated by having their pensions,welfare, minimum wage etc increased.

Those private companies are providing the bin service at a lower cost than when the councils provided the service themselves. So, it's better value to the taxpayers.

As far as compensating people in their pensions, welfare, etc. Why not compensate them with a cut in another form of tax?

You sound like a good fashioned tax and spend socialist!

Skr4wny

tax and spend is a good policy, bu giving a cut in another tax, say income tax for example you are only fueling inflation and wouldn't it be better spent on the health service or education.

AngelofFire

You sound like a good fashioned tax and spend socialist!

No actually im a social democrat there is a difference.

Those private companies are providing the bin service at a lower cost than when the councils provided the service themselves. So, it's better value to the taxpayers

.

No they dont, through the standard taxation system peoples earnings are taken into account. Under the bin charge system everybody has to pay the same amount, which means that people on the average industrial wage pay a much greater proportion of their income than high earners. The money goes into a the coffers of a private company, none of it is invested into the environment or into developing plastic recycling or putting compost and glass bottle recycling bins into peoples driveways.

lucernarian

I would support the carbon tax if it wasn't for the vested interest of my Dad possibly being made redundant because of this. He's not far from retirement age so I suppose it wouldnt be that bad...

Btw he works in a cement factory, one of the most energy-demanding industries there is.

capistrano

To_be_confirmed wrote:

I would support the carbon tax if it wasn't for the vested interest of my Dad possibly being made redundant because of this. He's not far from retirement age so I suppose it wouldnt be that bad...
QUOTE]

Excellent! It's nice to see somebody take such a principled stand!

capistrano

AngelofFire wrote:

The money goes into a the coffers of a private company, none of it is invested into the environment or into developing plastic recycling or putting compost and glass bottle recycling bins into peoples driveways.

My point was that councils outsourced bin collection becasue the private operators were able to do it in a more cost-effective manner than when the councils did it themselves. If they make a profit into the bargain then everyone's a winner.
As regards the bin charge, I've no problem with it. People are just paying for the service they receive. And anyway very low income earners get an exemption.
Do you think that all state services should be funded through general taxation? If that was the case then there would be no TV licence fees, passport application fees, motor taxes, property registration fees, and all the rest.
Bin charges are a sensible implementation of the "polluter pays" principe. The extension to pay by weight will make it even fairer.

AngelofFire

Bin charges are a sensible implementation of the "polluter pays" principle

No because the private company is making loads of money to dump waste including material than can be recycled into an incinerator. would it not be better to make waste disposal a public service and to provide everybody with seperate bins for plastic, compost, glass and paper+tin and only charge them for the waste which cannot be recycled with all proceeds going towards developing recycling facilities.

Do you think that all state services should be funded through general taxation?

Essential services such as healthcare, education, waterworks waste management yes!. The TV licence is different, but waste disposal is an essential service.The hike in the charge for a ten year passport was a disgrace.

capistrano

There aren't any waste incinerators yet!

Recycling is a separate issue to whether the waste service should be public or private.

AngelofFire

An Incinerator is being planned for ringsend it will be built on top of the site of the former glass bottle recycling plant. The charges we pay fund the building of the incinerator, there is a complete absence of the mechanism to remove waste.

capistrano

Thermal Treatment (or Incineration) has to be part of the solution. You can't recycle everything and it reduces landfill - generating electricity into the bargain!

AngelofFire

Actually the vast majority of waste thrown out in irish households can be recycled including plastic and compost. New Zealand have a zero waste no incineration policy.

http://www.zerowaste.co.nz

capistrano

Fair play to the Kiwis! Although I notice that it's a voluntary system so I wonder how they are really progressing towards their Zero Waste goal. I wish them luck!

There really is nothing wrong with modern thermal treatment. It's safe, returns energy and avoids landfill.

lucernarian

originally posted by capistrano

To_be_confirmed wrote:

I would support the carbon tax if it wasn't for the vested interest of my Dad possibly being made redundant because of this. He's not far from retirement age so I suppose it wouldnt be that bad...
QUOTE]

Excellent! It's nice to see somebody take such a principled stand!

I don't remember ever saying that I would disagree with it. The point I was making was that one part of me supports this tax but another part disagrees with the tax.

capistrano

To_be_confirmed wrote:

I don't remember ever saying that I would disagree with it. The point I was making was that one part of me supports this tax but another part disagrees with the tax.

I was just appreciating the humour of what you said. Honestly!

lucernarian

No problemo