The reputation system has the potential to break forums...

Wertz

OK, I'm a relative newcomer to these forums but I've been a poster on (mainly American) vBulletin forums for ages now.

This post is just a warning to the admins/mods/general posters/board members: Rep system is a timebomb for forums. Not for the software: that'll always work perfectly.
I'm talking about community relations. Rep leads to such phenomena as Rep whoring: friends bunching in to form a group who repeach other positively while -repping other members to "spread" rep so they can rep each other again after the timer resets.
Now you can say "yeah it's the intarweb, who gives a fook?" but it has the potential to turn tight communities into clans and cliqués and lead to the loss of decent contributors.

Let me recall a happening on one of my regular forums: a few months back during school holidays, over the course of a night one particular female (UK) poster decided to relieve her boredom by IMing risqué photos of herself to a select few members of those boards.
Well it didn't take long for the .jpgs to make it into the rep system via the {img}{/img}tag format.
Now come next morning when the admins had seen what had been going on (through being repped with the pics themselves) and checked this girl's profile only to discover she was registered as being 14...
So their server/mySQL DB is now littered with several pictures of an underage gril in a stae of nakedness...
Now the US being what it is: the land of the PC, God-fearing , law-abiding internet user, several senior members of the community ended up with an IP ban from the admins: even after certain mods tried to reinstate them, there was a revolt of other members disgusted by what had gone on.
The offenders duly returned after a hiatus: a lot of the community moved on, some returned; a lot didn't.
Net result? A strong community ended up divided by a feature of vBulletin that, while it can be turned off in the user CP, remains default unless admins render it otherwise...

That's just one story that sticks out in my mind. Others, like a guy that lost his job after someone decided to +rep him pics straight off of a Playboy server to his office workstation also ring alarm bells...

I would appeal to the people who hold the power about ths place to:
1) Disable image tags in rep.
2) Amend rep so that handles are included in rep comments (+ or -)
3) Turn the damn thing off altogether. Yeah I know you can do it at client end, and that it's only a harmless krama system, but the fact is it's not.

Now as I say I'm a newcomer: I don't expect my opinion to count for sh*t, but look at it this way: where was Boards.ie at before the rep system came along? Same place it is now, only with fewer active memebrs I'd bet.
Give it some thought...

Karl Hungus

There's been cliques on boards long before the reputation system came along... Now bugger off before you spoil my reputation child porn ring.

Flukey

There are cliques everywhere, no matter what type of board you have. the reputation thing, which most people don't even bother with, is not going to make any difference one way or another.

Wertz

Karl Hungus wrote:

There's been cliques on boards long before the reputation system came along... Now bugger off before you spoil my reputation child porn ring.

lol.

Sure, there'll always be cliqués on boards: that's their very nature.

But the rep system is of a format that you can say/show/link something to another poster without ever having to reveal your handle/persona.
I know admins can check it if need be but in a place as big as this place seems to be, I doubt it happens a lot.

Before vbulletin conjured this up, we had PMs, and all the other harmless $hit: we now have an anonymous system that has community wrecking potential.
Most likely I'm getting repped for this as we speak ut since the onl time I even look at my user CP is when I'm changing my sig/av, it could be weeks/months before I see the comment/pic/link/whatever. If someone PMs me, I get it the next time I refresh the forums...

Optikus

Well im kinda pissed about the rep system .. i just got another disapproval with no reason at all , i dont know who sent it all i know is what thread it came from in that thread the only comment i said was "i agree" . agreeing to the fact that i not particulary fund of the rep system and that im not to pleased with all the anomymous bad rep i've been getting.

Karl Hungus

Yeah, threads about reputation usually bring bad reputation because of the same old whining. Still, this is probably one of the few non-whiney threads about reputation so far, so maybe your rep won't plummet? Who knows?

I don't think anything as sinister as what you claim will happen though. The biggest spot of bother I've had with reputation was me being spammed with idiotic comments, which turned out to be CS players. I don't place any importance on the idea at all.

Wertz

Optikus wrote:

Well im kinda pissed about the rep system .. i just got another disapproval with no reason at all , i dont know who sent it all i know is what thread it came from in that thread the only comment i said was "i agree" . agreeing to the fact that i not particulary fund of the rep system and that im not to pleased with all the anomymous bad rep i've been getting.

Maybe they're jealous of your 1337 rig .

No seriously, I had a mius rep my first post on here (for having a 45kb sig: 56K hurts ) with some colourful language that might chase a lesser n00b away to the likes of bungie.net : the comments don't bother me, just the fact that it's someone hiding behind the anonymity rep allows...

Stark

Thanks for pointing out the porn distribution feature of rep, that will spruce up the lgb forum nicely

Wertz

Stark wrote:

Thanks for pointing out the porn distribution feature of rep, that will spruce up the lgb forum nicely

Excuse my n00bness but LGB?
Or do I wanna know?

Optikus

Wertz wrote:

Maybe they're jealous of your 1337 rig .

No seriously, I had a mius rep my first post on here (for having a 45kb sig: 56K hurts ) with some colourful language that might chase a lesser n00b away to the likes of bungie.net : the comments don't bother me, just the fact that it's someone hiding behind the anonymity rep allows...

Jesus.. i'd love to get a comment !! i don't even get that just a blank disapproval. Perhaps jealousy is playing apart in this mindless disapproval of seeming fair and valid comments. Maybe it is time to get the old comm'O'dore 64, and for you noobs out there its not 64 bit.

Victor

Wertz wrote:

Excuse my n00bness but LGB?

Laser Guided Bomb.

amp

Victor wrote:

Laser Guided Bomb.

Let's Get Busy!

Wertz

amp wrote:

Let's Get Busy!

Yeh both ofthose apply...

Guess I'd better off doing my own research on here...

Anyways won't be on LGB forum too much, but more power to those that are...

Esel

Admins, please consider what the OP says.

Chinese proverb: "When the finger points at the moon, the fool looks at the finger."

A community is hard to build, and important enough to protect.

This 'feature' has the potential to drive away a lot of worthwhile people.

Ask yourselves: were things OK before this feature?


Now ask:

Are things better since this feature?

Did you design and implement it?

How long has this community been building?

Conflict is bad.

It is easier to demolish than to build.

People are sensitive to insults. They usually withdraw from same.

Communities lose a lot with the departure of every single member.

We all lose, especially the people who leave.

BuffyBot

Hmm..well actually I can't see that it makes much impact, apart from the number of "OMG REP POINTS THREAD".

Reputation/Karma will not be the end of boards.ie. Far, far from it.

simu

Starting silly, scaremongering threads like this does far more to diminish the boards experience than the reputation system. You really need to find something more useful to do with your time, Wertz.

Pigman II

Wertz wrote:

Excuse my n00bness but LGB?

Don't mind those guys Wertz. It actually stands for 'Lovely Girls Bathing.'

Optikus wrote:

Maybe it is time to get the old commadore 64, and for you noobs out there its not 64 bit.

It's commOdore noob. I'd usually let typo's go but it was only written on EVERY SINGLE PIECE of hardware and software you could get for the thing!

Victor

Pigman II wrote:

It's commOdore noob. I'd usually let typo's go but it was only written on EVERY SINGLE PIECE of hardware and software you could get for the thing!

You mean the had the big "O" there millions of times and never corrected it?

Oh, and Atari Jaguar.

Pigman II

Victor wrote:

You mean the had the big "O" there millions of times and never corrected it?

Afraid so. The blunder came 2nd in their overall list of managment oversights. #1 was sponsoring Chelsea FC.

TwoShedsJackson

Wertz wrote:

OK, I'm a relative newcomer to these forums but I've been a poster on (mainly American) vBulletin forums for ages now.

This post is just a warning to the admins/mods/general posters/board members: Rep system is a timebomb for forums. Not for the software: that'll always work perfectly.
I'm talking about community relations. Rep leads to such phenomena as Rep whoring: friends bunching in to form a group who repeach other positively while -repping other members to "spread" rep so they can rep each other again after the timer resets.
Now you can say "yeah it's the intarweb, who gives a fook?" but it has the potential to turn tight communities into clans and cliqués and lead to the loss of decent contributors.

Let me recall a happening on one of my regular forums: a few months back during school holidays, over the course of a night one particular female (UK) poster decided to relieve her boredom by IMing risqué photos of herself to a select few members of those boards.
Well it didn't take long for the .jpgs to make it into the rep system via the {img}{/img}tag format.
Now come next morning when the admins had seen what had been going on (through being repped with the pics themselves) and checked this girl's profile only to discover she was registered as being 14...
So their server/mySQL DB is now littered with several pictures of an underage gril in a stae of nakedness...
Now the US being what it is: the land of the PC, God-fearing , law-abiding internet user, several senior members of the community ended up with an IP ban from the admins: even after certain mods tried to reinstate them, there was a revolt of other members disgusted by what had gone on.
The offenders duly returned after a hiatus: a lot of the community moved on, some returned; a lot didn't.
Net result? A strong community ended up divided by a feature of vBulletin that, while it can be turned off in the user CP, remains default unless admins render it otherwise...

That's just one story that sticks out in my mind. Others, like a guy that lost his job after someone decided to +rep him pics straight off of a Playboy server to his office workstation also ring alarm bells...

I would appeal to the people who hold the power about ths place to:
1) Disable image tags in rep.
2) Amend rep so that handles are included in rep comments (+ or -)
3) Turn the damn thing off altogether. Yeah I know you can do it at client end, and that it's only a harmless krama system, but the fact is it's not.

Now as I say I'm a newcomer: I don't expect my opinion to count for sh*t, but look at it this way: where was Boards.ie at before the rep system came along? Same place it is now, only with fewer active memebrs I'd bet.
Give it some thought...

Verily your opinion does not count for ****, now shut up. Moron.

billy the squid

Its only a website for **** sake get over it, the little green or red dot under your name is not that important is it? if it is then you seriously need to get a life.

Gordon

Wertz, there isn't an img option on rep points on boards.ie.

Optikus

Pigman II wrote:

Don't mind those guys Wertz. It actually stands for 'Lovely Girls Bathing.'



It's commOdore noob. I'd usually let typo's go but it was only written on EVERY SINGLE PIECE of hardware and software you could get for the thing!

Calm down mate its corrected now..OK .. and no need for the bad rep over a bloody spelling mistake.

nadir

billy the squid wrote:

Its only a website for **** sake get over it, the little green or red dot under your name is not that important is it? if it is then you seriously need to get a life.

Im sure some people would disagree with that opinion. Sounds like the old 'irl' argument on irc.
Personally I dont care about the rep's , hack me down all you want
Ill prolly regret saying that.
But if it's causing so much talk, the admins could always hold a public vote on it (or even just a poll), would be interesting to see the result at least.

Sarky

If you use the reputation system THE TERRORISTS WILL HAVE WON.

Hobbes

So let me get this straight...

rep points are bombs. ergo rep people are terrrorists.
Leads to powersharing with each other. ergo rep people are powerhungry and corrupt.
Finally ends up the little green/red points turning into kiddie porn? ergo... wtf?

I heard it makes you sterile and go on a killing spree in the local 7/11. A red apple also killed my goldfish.

Pigman II

Optikus wrote:

Calm down mate its corrected now..OK .. and no need for the bad rep over a bloody spelling mistake.

Oh that its buddy! I'm gonna 'rep your ass' for that one, rep it til it hurts!

gandalf

Jaysus not another rep thread. There have always been cliques on Boards and there will always be. FFS rep points don't make a difference to that. Why is it that some people are so preoccupied with bloody rep points. Ignore them and just keep posting.

The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads - they all adore him. They think DeV's a righteous dude

Wertz

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Verily your opinion does not count for ****, now shut up. Moron.

See that's the type of response I like. I can see this poster, and his opinion.

He could quite happily have repped me this comment or similar (as I'm sure others have ) and hidden behind the system.

And that's my whole point here: to those saying "It's only litle boxes that don't mean sh*t": yes, you are 100% right, and I never paid attention to the actual boxes anyway for the reasons given in my 1st post.
What I DO pay attention to are anonymous jibes/insults/comments/falmes: if someone disagrees with what I have to say, that's great.
That's what forums are about.
But if a member has no redress to return comments because he doesn't know who made them, that leaves a certain frustration.

As I've said in my first post, I'm new here. There are a lot of senior/highpostcount members here and as TwoShedsJackson so very elloquently put it, "my opinions don't count for **** ".
To that I say touché mate, but I think everybody's opinions count for something: whether you respect or agree with them or not is another point entirely.

A mod has mentioned that img tags are disabled in rep on boards.ie: that's good IMO. Cliqués I have no problem with, all communities have them.
Just to finish with this, I just wanted to pass this story along. Internet drama is fun! :rolleyes: Not much will change my opinion on the lameness of the rep system: how did forum software manage so long without it? What value does it add? I judge a poster on what they have to say, NOT by the amount of red/green boxes they sport under their handle...

Karl Hungus

Wertz wrote:

I judge a poster on what they have to say, NOT by the amount of red/green boxes they sport under their handle...

I don't beleive anyone here on boards is naive enough to beleive such a thing in the first place.

tony 2 tone

Wertz wrote:

Blah blah blah

Go back to Russia, pinko!!!

Hobbes

Wertz wrote:

See that's the type of response I like. I can see this poster, and his opinion.

He could quite happily have repped me this comment or similar (as I'm sure others have ) and hidden behind the system.

You know it is quite possible that the rep system was put in to stop TwoSheds from posting what he thinks publically.