Irish Clubs in Europe & E.L development

thejollyrodger

After Shels lost to lille, its probably an appropriate time to debate what should happen to the E.L and the future.

Shels have made some progress this year. The co-efficient has gone up and now the E.L is 38th. Although still terribly low, it’s an improvement.

One of the proposals that I heard of is FAI take control of the league for a start. I think that it’s about time that something like that happened. That perhaps can provide better organisation.

It’s pretty clear that Irish club sides are lacking physically, technically and even organisation. Other things such as passes complete are very low and ball retention is very low. The teams themselves have to address that if they seriously want to reach the 3rd qualifying round of the Champions League or even into the UEFA Cup group stages. I guess it boils down to money.

The government should interveen and help to develop Irish club soccer.

Seaneh

The F.A.I. Needs to develop a training acadmey inside of this country and use that to harvest new players, something like Ajax's sysem, but instead of the clubs controling thier youth I reckon after the age of say 14(ish) the most talented youth should be invited to an academy where only the elite attend, they stay there for a few years. then do one season with a senior side, and the the FAI invites ALL of europes major teams (england, spain, france, germany, italy, holland, spain and the rest) to partake in a draft, and in return for the chance to pick the best irish talent the teams invloved should sponser the development of the centre.

It has been done in several countries and works pretty well for them.

thejollyrodger

I agree, the country should have some sort of full time training school for young footballers. To teach them all the technical skills, positions, tatics, et cetra.

This would both benefit the national team and club teams here.

gimmick

We care about Irish football my ass.

Examples should be taken from Sweden and Norway. The government has to get involved. The €40m thrown at the GAA today could have been used to help out.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

One of the proposals that I heard of is FAI take control of the league for a start. I think that it’s about time that something like that happened. That perhaps can provide better organisation.

HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH Classic!!! FAI are complete muppets or havent you noticed.

The F.A.I. Needs to develop a training acadmey inside of this country and use that to harvest new players, something like Ajax's sysem, but instead of the clubs controling thier youth I reckon after the age of say 14(ish) the most talented youth should be invited to an academy where only the elite attend, they stay there for a few years. then do one season with a senior side, and the the FAI invites ALL of europes major teams (england, spain, france, germany, italy, holland, spain and the rest) to partake in a draft, and in return for the chance to pick the best irish talent the teams invloved should sponser the development of the centre.

Like the regional training centres that are in place 3 years after "the Dr" set them up. ?????

The government has to get involved. The €40m thrown at the GAA today could have been used to help out.

Ahhh sense , ironcialy from someone who supports EL longer than.. (/me checks how long Shels are in Europe)

thejollyrodger

FAI are complete muppets or havent you noticed.

Yes the FAI are muppets. However since Fran Rooney has taken over I think the FAI he has steadly got rid of a lot of the muppets and the FAI is better run.

Realistically, I would rather have the new FAI run the league than some mickey mouse committee. wasnt it a FAI proposal that changed the league to summer? with clear benefits !!

Rosenburg is a great example of what could be followed here. They have an excellent record at home in the Champions League. The government HAS to get invovled.

KdjaCL

thejollyrodger wrote:

The government HAS to get invovled.

/me looks at that 40 million and thinks how many stadia would that build in EL rather than one stand.

EL needs money the infrastructure is there already, we are not short of decent players its paying them thats the problem. Pats prime example put entire team up for sale then go raid the youths and LSL worked for us some cracking players coming tru (me is very impressed with them). Every club should have an all seater stadium which should be funded by the goverment. /Dream over

Funny tho only 1 club in EL actually buys in players rather than use homegrown players, a reason most fans dislike them. Guess who....Dammit John Luby was a class player but oh no had buy in some 50 year old english conference reject!!!!.


kdjac

The Rooster

The problem with the Eircom League is that nobody cares (apart from the obvious few who attend games regularly). No chance of getting significant taxpayers funding, so clubs would have to do what most other European clubs do and fund it themselves - problem is, no fans to generate income!

Does the country need a decent soccer league?

Most people in the country who feel driven to attend outdoor sporting events every other week or so choose gaelic games. Soccer might be second but its a very distant second. A lot of soccer followers are quite happy to act the sheep and simply support a foreign team and maybe (or maybe not) travel over to see them the odd time per season. I dont think that would change significantly if there was a decent Irish league - you wouldnt get many more people who would bother their ars€s going to games every week. The people who want outdoor entertainment find it, the people who dont watch telly (or whatever).

So IMO the market is just not there for a decent soccer league. Unless you could get the GAA followers to changeover - but there's no chance of that as the product is simply not as good.

Finally I dont think we need a decent soccer league to improve our national team. Going by population we are already punching above our weight.

thejollyrodger

I completely disagree with you rooster and I think your very defeatest.

Firstly, the vast majority of European sides in europe are punching above their weight, for example deportivo la coruna for one. Its just that most sides have a good manager, and are very well organised, know what they are going to do etc, and shore up their weak spots.

If you take the Shelbourne example along, with a few improvements its possible to get the results in Europe.

Our national team does very well considering that there isnt a lot of money invested in it. We still have a 3rd world stadium and the new one is only 5,000 seats bigger. There is no french national training centre here and there is virtually no money invested. What I take from it is this : - the irish national team isnt doing itself justice but under investment lack of planning, training, etc etc. Personally I think we should be between 10th and 14th in the world.

Why bother to have a E.L anyway ? well should any of the teams get into the UEFA Cup or Champions League group stages there will be financial rewards. I would rather have a Rosenburg type team here at home than supporting the Mulitnationals Corporations like Man Utd Arsenal Chelski.

The stadiums dont look great but the main issue is the players, they need to be playing full time for a start. Once they are training full time they can try and match the european teams physically, and be well organised. I know shels have worked on this but it will have to be brought to another level !

I cant see much progress being made in terms of technical ability, the country really needs a national training centre to train youngsters. Maybe located out in Abbotstown.

KdjaCL

Afaik golf is 2nd to GAA over here for outdoor sports, to answer teh question does the country need a decent soccer league?

Well do we need a decent national team ? Do we need IRISH players playing for ireland or 2nd rate div 1 players? All the league needs is bums on seats.

Oh and why does the GAA get money and EL doesnt its nowt to do with interest levels, how many votes would the GAA get for Fianna Fail if given 40 million? How many votes would FF get if they gave Man utd 40 million? How many votes would FF get if they gave EL money?


kdjac

kilkennycat2004

KdjaC wrote:

/me looks at that 40 million and thinks how many stadia would that build in EL rather than one stand.
EL needs money the infrastructure is there already, we are not short of decent players its paying them thats the problem. kdjac

The failure of the FAI to ever build anything has nothing to do with the comparative success of the GAA.
If the government gave chunks of money to LOI clubs it would be no more used for facilities than an alcoholic uses his money on mineral water.
The EL operates with an elite 40-50 players constantly on the move from club to club & on salaries totally unrealistic to the gate receipts. This is the starting point to address before money from the government is ever given to the FAI.
I support the LOI & can't understand why more people don't make the effort to support the local side but using jealousy of the GAA as an excuse for FAI incompetence is not the way to go.

cournioni

I think in order to get the league to attract fans it needs to be more localised. Local players, teams etc. I can think of numerous counties without a local EL club. And the clubs that are outside of Dublin (with the exception of Cork City) are mainly made up of players from Dublin or other parts of the country.

GAA is successful because of local pride. Nearly every county, even the weakest counties draw good crowds to their matches. That is because of local pride.

thejollyrodger

I dont think thats really applicable to soccer. The main aim is to compete in the group stages of UEFA Cup or Champions League. The best example would be rugby. There are less teams, only four, but they really compete well. The amount of teams in the E.L priemer division is about right. Attendences will only really go up if the quality of the matches and grounds improve and the teams are competing regularly in Europe.

I think the biggest thing the FAI can do is take over the Eircom League and run it as professionally as possible. I give some credit to the FAI now, they arent all complete muppets. The government should offer at least tax breaks to help develop stadia and develop training facilities. They should also fund the full time national training facility. Mostly every other country has something like this, the french league was crap until they got a spin off in terms of players from their national facility.

cournioni

In order to build a solid fanbase I'm afraid that is what has to be done.

KdjaCL

I really do wonder about some of the posts made here by people alledlgey know stuff about football.

localised??? i gonna go out on a limb here and take a guess that Gimmick is from Cork and supports ...Cork. Kevirl is from waterford and supports....waterford.
Im from Clondlakin and support ....pats. i would say Bateman and Pigman are form the northside and support ...Bohs. Shels fans are from.... well im sure all the shels fans here will tell you where they originally from. Shockinlgy Localised support for each team. Go to any pub close to these ground on matchdays and be shocked at locals having a pint in their local before the game..... mad stuff.

And Kilkennycat your post is in bold and the FAI dont run the league, and its not jealousy its simple maths. Our great leader Bertie is a man utd fan and while Shels is in his constituency and were pleading poverty at the start of the season like many EL clubs. They did nothing to help out. Now Rovers the greatest club ever in ireland (god i hate admitting that) are to announce on sunday night thats its game over, match abandoned, ball burst and they will cease as a football club. Do you think that of the €106,860,000 MILLION the goverment gave the GAA would help keep Rovers alive. Like seriously how much would save an entire club? 100 grand 150 grand???

But the GAA, the money monster that it is gets 100 million. Not jealousy i dont want to see a club dying no matter how much i hate them (see localised they a southside team therefore Pats closest rivals)


kdjac

thejollyrodger

Do you think that of the €106,860,000 MILLION the goverment gave the GAA would help keep Rovers alive. Like seriously how much would save an entire club? 100 grand 150 grand???

I couldnt agree more. Most of these clubs are operating on a shoe string budget. They are trying to compete in Europe with virtually no money. Its a shame to see a club have to shut up shop when only a couple of hundred thousand would be enough to solve their financial difficulities.

The government should be helping Irish club teams, other clubs in Europe get government help, fenlon pointed out that Deportivo have some arrangement with the government and recieve financial help in some way, for the simple reason that they are flying the flag for Galicia.

cournioni

Problem is, knowing the clubs in question they would probably go out and spend that hundred grand or so on players rather than easing their debts. The Government know that their money is going towards something useful like grass roots, stadia and training resources in the GAA and not into someones pocket like they do in soccer.

Running a soccer club is like running a business, and the clubs in Ireland aren't doing a very good job of it are they? I seem to remember Rovers looking to get money to build their stadium, getting it and then spending it on players. Whose fault is that?

KdjaCL

Rovers never got money , Ben Dunne was to invest on basis he could build a gym nearby , they let all the top earners go and havent paid half the players in over 6 weeks. they are buggered all becasue they tried to better themselves by building a decent ground ( ohh make the conection with the GAA )

The GAA are a money monster in this country so im sure by investing in stadia and training resources what you really meant was building pubs ehh i mean club houses with bars and filling them with the clubs patrons to generate cash. Licence for a GAA clubhouse is near free in this country ( Round Towers GAA club in clondlkain got 3 facelifts in last 6 years but the pitch is in bits and owned by a local school, great grass root investment there). Pats tried to buy Workmans club in Inch and the cost would have been 8 million. No GAA club in ireland would have to pay that for a pub with a licence.
Shels and bohs own the bars in their grounds and generate enough cahs there to keep the clubs ticking over. Pats and Rovers dont have that luxury.

Kdjac