A Group Effort

roundcrisis

Hi there:
ok this is the idea: I d like to get a lot of people and to create our own hosting/website/eComerce/development/tools/etc using Open source initally using everyones diferent skills
So for example I know a bit about php Mysql, linux, DW, Fireworks, delphi, c, etc. then someone who knows how to host would do that(or we could all pay for a decent hosting ie if we are 10 we put 10 euros a year and that would do), some designer would do the design, so basically anyone can put something in there as well.
I think that we could even do something like elance but for free and better.
This would help a lot people trying to learn, or add new projects to your portfolio etc.

I know this is not really clear but it s hard to explain as it is an open project.
I know there is a lot of people there trying to do better and this sort of interaction would help us all investing a little of our time
What do you think?

mneylon

The "group effort" bit I understood.
The project goals don't seem very clear. Could you elaborate?

LoLth

he wants to get a group of people together to collaborate to the best of their individual abilities on stuff.

clear now?

really, a defined goal is the only way to organise a team. Otherwise you'll spend all your time with the initial setup debate and never really get anyhting done as members leave from boredom brought about from inactivity.

roundcrisis

Lolth, I think you are right, what if the goal is something like
To create a website to offer freelance services. The website could inlcude applications developed by any of the members in a trial and or shareware basis.
What do you think?

and....I am a she.:D

mneylon

LoLth wrote:

he wants to get a group of people together to collaborate to the best of their individual abilities on stuff.

To achieve what??

roundcrisis

To learn in the proces of making it work
to have your own part of the project in your portfolio
to have a place to display what you can do(has to be true though)

seamus

Maybe you're talking about a community project organising site - that is, someone thinks of an idea, members of the community join in, and then the finished product is offered free from the site as Open Source software. Is this it?

Or were you thinking more that someone has an idea for a website or web service, and then people similarly group together to develop and maintain the project.

I think the second idea is probably a better one to go for, as the former exists in abundance on the web. What you need then are a few projects to get you going, and someone willing to be project organiser for each. The initial website development could work from this project idea.

LoLth

well, if you can get the project off the ground (and I hope you do) I'll get devore (or rahter I'll very nicely ask devore) to create a sub-forum here if you want.

Doubt I'd be much use on the developement side but if you want ideas and/or testing done, feel free to give me a shout.

roundcrisis

seamus: it is definetly the second idea
interested?
lolth: thanks a lot, your help will be greatly apreciated, and im sure you have something else to offer
I hope we can get the project off the ground as well

evilhomer

the idea of developing some opensource webtool is a good idea.

but just wondering if the good web designers/developers in this forum would also like to devote some time to creating websites for charaties? that would not have the funds to pay for it? would be a good oppertunity to collaborate and also you could add the work you do to your portfolio.

anyone interested? i'm sure we could find a few charities that need this service provided.

mneylon

If you need help with the hosting you know where to find me

Kai

Yea id be interested in developing an open source tool. I havent a clue about how we could go about it but im sure someone has some ideas.

dangerman

I'm not sure i get it.

Or were you thinking more that someone has an idea for a website or web service, and then people similarly group together to develop and maintain the project.

What kind of thing? Combining the awesome powers of all the web people here is a great idea, but without *an* idea there's little point? I too love the idea of creating an open source tool - but as with everything, its coming up with the idea thats hard.

What do we do? A Content Management System? Are we aiming to be truly original? Do we check the project doesnt exist on sourceforge before we do it?

I mean I've had tcal.net for the last 5 years and there's been nothing but rubbish on that. It serves its purpose as a playground/lab for me to fool around with everything & anything...but I lack any actual 'killer app' ideas at present. [they're coming...i swear...] At present its nothing more than a poor mans boing boing which i used to learn wordpress & and php.

My web site skills lean heavily towards design, icon/image/branding etc. One of my favourite things to do would be to give a web tool a branding. [ala the firefox image...]

Can we call it little wolf? Cause i just made this little wolf

In all seriousness though, you've definately peaked my interest and I'd like to hear more.

roundcrisis

hi there:
first of all thanks a lot,
I understand that the idea is a bit loose

I dont think you can be very original in this kind of thing because eveything has been done already, but no everything has been done properly, take the example of skype, its phone over the interenet, several diferent companies, including msm tryed that but the product wasnt good enough, but now this thing is working and loads of people are using it. that s what i want.
what I m aming at here is to do something that works, and that works like a charm, and that can evolve in time and we should evolve with it

and i love the little wolf
I d love to start to DO something right now.

how about yous

roundcrisis

can we start to split the tasks?
What can each of you do?
Please pm me. I browsed and found several content management systems and some of them seem to be fine
I ve also found a forum
all in php
Thanks in advance

dangerman

Not to be annoying, but what do we need a forum for? Whats wrong with this thread?

Split the tasks? Tasks to do what?

CMS? What will be stored in it?

LoLth

Until you have a better idea of what content you intend to be posting I dont think it is wise to go selecting a content manager... how can you tell if one is better or more suitable than another?

As for forum space: I'll send a pm to DeV or post on the admin board.

mneylon

If you could provide a clear idea of what the objective is then that would be a good starting point.
At the moment it seems to be very fluffy

Funkygreendogs

ok sorry to just barge into this thread and start bossing around but i think we need to assign different positions to people baised on what they are best at, myself and whoever mentioned being good at design there can be the design team, the girl/woman who came up with the idea can be the project manager, now we need programmers, that can be whoever was saying they are good with php mysql, and a few ppl who have a few good ideas, anyone else got more suggestions for positions we need

p.s. - i think what she means is that we all combine our skills in webdesign to create a killer webdesign team to kinda come up with some new ideas for design/programming/whatever else there is to redesign/reform whatever, basically a comming together of skills and ideas to create something that ppl will appreciate, am i right?

dangerman

no. assigning roles is pointless without an idea.

i'm not going to be on the design team and then go do an open source wiki dedicated to something i think is completely ridiculous.

also, i won't extend a single drop of effort without a worthwhile idea.

ideas first.

Funkygreendogs

What about a tutorial/source code site?? know its been done, but i think its a good place to START and then i know the ideas will flow, this is always how i approach something, always start to do SOMEthing first then focus in on something, make it better, then make it even better and then finally even better again

Webmonkey

Count me in. this is exactly what i want. Im doing nothing every night and bored and feel like im wasting valueable time. I came up with a odd idea last night. maybe not odd but interesting perhaps.
It basically this:
Set up a program on a computer that communicates to a gsm mobile. The program will be an AI bot. People text this phone, goes to computer and then the bot finds results for what the person wants. Like text "Weather today please" or something, and it will get the latest weather on the internet and send it back. This could be a free / fun project to do. It could even build up a profile of the phone number. I dunno like learn about this person. Its an idea i spose... i come up with lots of wierd ones but id like to work together with people on something alright.

Kai

Well,

I see we havent really moved very far in the last few days. How about if people throw in some ideas on what they would like to work on. That way we can discuss the merits of each and decide as a group on what we should work on. Theres no point assigning tasks if we dont know what we will be designing or programming. i agree with lolth here, if i wanted to put effort into a project i wasnt interested in then id just go to work

To get the ball rolling heres an idea that i was going to work on myself in my part time to learn VB.NET, because of this i dont think it is exactly right for the project but sure here it is anyway:

Its Multi Tool Program which has a simplified version of all the common Tools that i use with different sections to sort them e.g

COMPUTER

---

Zip File utility - create and open existing archives.
Image editor - simple version
File / folder explorer - advanced version with files opening in a
panel on click.
Computer tools - Tasklist, memory info, registry editor, temp file manager.

INTERNET

---

Telnet / SSH - PUTTY like program.
FTP client
Bit torrent client
IRC client
AIM Client
Bookmark keeper
RSS Feeds
Network tools - Pings, traceroute, Connection testing, Dns lookup,
arp, ICMP, everything.

PROGRAMMING

---

Code writer - richtext editor which can highlight/colour certain
keywords as defined in a keyword list file, a different list for each
language eg. VB, VB.NET, C++ etc.
Compiler config - simple configurable tool that pases the a file to
external compiler.
Code snippet Keeper - before and after code selection and description. - Macros.
SQL Tool - connect to databases and run queries. - Include an SQL reference.
String manipulator / dictionary creator
HTML and CSS creator - create html and css files - use the code keeper

gary.css) and the like.

USER

---

Calander / schedule
Notebook - rich text editor.
Media player - mp3,ogg,avi,mpeg and possible divx.

ADMIN

---

Admin sections - manage all the different utilities from here.

---

I wwas going to use a Menu system like the one in VS.NET, with sections that slide up and down to reveal the objects. The whole thing would have to be as small as i could make it as i was hoping to keep it on a USB key drive and carry it around with me so i can work on different machines. Its way beyond me at the moment but i see it as a chance to learn something new.

I dont think its right for this Project but im putting it in to get the ball rolling and maybe prompt some others to put in their ideas.

roundcrisis

funkygreendog you are getting my idea

dangerman and blacknight: I m trying to start of with a website that offers freelancers the oportunity to advertise themselves and to people looking for IT/design expertise to advertise their needs.
that is to start of , future growth will include tutorials, video tutorials meetings to exchange knowledge and more
is the idea clear?


roundcrisis

Funkygreendogs

What about an internet based Image Editor and we can add advanced features as we go along, something like photoshop only you edit images through your browser, and a facility to host the complete images like imageshack.us.....?

dangerman

roundcrisis: i'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, but only because I've experience with big ideas that ended up going nowhere. I hope you don't think I don't like you/or the general idea... i'm just a bit sceptical.

dangerman and blacknight: I m trying to start of with a website that offers freelancers the oportunity to advertise themselves and to people looking for IT/design expertise to advertise their needs.

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.freelanceireland.ie/index.html

Or perhaps a webdesigner/programmer version of

http://www.illustratorsireland.com/

In my experience, the only way to start something like this is for one catalyst to go and do it. If the catalyst goes and produces a web site with a poor interface but a solid idea behind it, then I've no problem swooping in and [hopefully] making it look pretty.

In terms of a code project, it's the same idea: One catalyst produces a beta with a gpl licence, and then as that gains in popularity interested individuals from all over the net take your code, improve it and the ones that do good work become part of the team and thats how it turns into something bigger.

Perhaps even the one person producing a design spec for an application is enough to get others to go and do it, but it would have to be a worthwhile idea and very well thought out.

Simply saying ok, you go do the graphics, I'll do the content, and you do the backend without one person dictating exactly what is needed doesn't really work imo.

roundcrisis

hi funkygreendogs, i appreciate the imput but I can't see the use of such a tool really, it would be a very good thing if its an application, even a browser based one, but as an online tool. why?
please let me know

LoLth

my idea: not really website based but you'll see what I mean...

A tool for mapping a LAN.
There are already tools out there for reporting the contents of a LAN and the details of those contents but.. what would be pretty nifty would be a graphical representation of a network that the admin can alter and browse through as required. perhaps even include a "notes" section for each element of the network to store custom information.

I would see the output presented in a web browser and navigated as a series of linked webpages called from a database (asp or php?)

Graphically, obviously it would have to have icons etc included and a nifty interface. Design wise this would have to be intuitive and clear.

Codewise: the action of collecting cross platform information on PCs and MACs as well as identifying routers, switches, printers. pointing to the primary and secondary domain servers and identifying what hardware has connections outside the LAN (router/firewall obviously, pcs with active modem connections, fax machines)

there would be a lot of work involved for every facet of this project I think. It is something I would love to be able to use and would love even more to be able to write (but me=crap at that side of things - I'd still research and lend a hand where ever possible though).

Just a thought.

Kai

Lolth

your idea is quite interesting but the only problem i can see is that if it was to be built in asp or php then it could only run on webserver or a machine that had IIS / apache installed. This may be a drawback for in certain situations. Whereas if you built it in a standalone Application that scanned and drew up a diagram layout of the nework then it may be easier to for the person using it to run.

Now i might be over critical as i do have a machine that i could install a web version of this tool so its possible others will as well.

roundCrisis
Are you sure you want to build a web based appication using asp/php or are you open to other ideas.

Funkygreendogs

Ok we've lost momentum with this project, we need to get the ball rolling again, the LAN project is a good idea and also a tutorial site and maybe a few charity website thrown in for free to create a name for ourselves, does the crumlin childrens hospital charity have a site? we could implement a paypal donate / credit card donation system ..etc...............

LoLth

As I said before, I am almost 100% inept when it comes to programming. I only mentioned asp/php because I thought it might be an easier way to organise and access the data collected. However, having been subjected to a Delphi program recently I can see that a standalone app would work just as well.

roundcrisis

I agree with the charity work and all
what kept me from replying is that I dont know if I am capable of doing such a project in php altough i think It would be really useful, another thing that would be really useful is a FREE geographical ip tracker
r.

ps: the lan project as a standalone application is (for me) easier to do but it would be limited to one OS plataform to run the program in. an that s a limitation from the start.

mneylon

roundcrisis wrote:

another thing that would be really useful is a FREE geographical ip tracker

Depending on what you want to do this could be interesting.
A lot of the data is freely available, but if you want the most up to date data you do need to pay for it.

dangerman

on the LAN idea:

I think a web interface would be best if it's at all possible, with a java backend powering it. But as with yourself Lolth, my programming ability is well below the reqs for this kind of thing. - I'd definately enjoy doing all the little icons though.

What's an ip tracker in this context?

For example, do you mean a variant on this: http://paulding.net/IPcheck.html

roundcrisis

well i reckon we could go with the free stuff first
and then see we can pay for the rest . what d you think?

roundcrisis

an Iptracker or tracer show you the information of all the routers from where you are up to an specifi ip address, try in your command prompt tracert htmail.com and youll see what i mean,
The geographical version will actually how you in a map where are these router located
For tons of people on the web this information is very interesting for example if you have a eComerce website or if you recieved a strange email and you want to check the source of it.

roundcrisis

on the lan idea i think it would be better if you have a web interface definetly but I don t think i can do that at this stage, i could, however once the data is in a db or somewhere output it in a map and show the trace, can you do the other part blacknight?

mneylon

roundcrisis wrote:

however once the data is in a db or somewhere output it in a map and show the trace, can you do the other part blacknight?

I'm not much of a programmer

Contact me directly to discuss what needs doing etc...

dangerman

just stumbled across a link to another ip thing:

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

The graphical trace route is a nice idea. How would the map graphic be created from the trace-route info?

mneylon

dangerman wrote:

just stumbled across a link to another ip thing:

http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation

The graphical trace route is a nice idea. How would the map graphic be created from the trace-route info?

If you can map the IP address of a hop to a geographical point .....

Have a Google for "visual traceroute"

roundcrisis

basically IF you get this info then you can have worldmap with diferent refernce points, countries and cities, and using the locations of the routers you simply draw from one point to the other
something similar to this, but avoiding the hasle of loging in or downloading and installing something that might be spyware etc:

http://www.spychecker.com/screenshots/vroute.htm

dangerman

Ah ok. That sounds really nice. So just to get it clear in my head:

1. User visits site, presented with a form, fills in an IP/domain name and clicks on submit.

2. A trace route is performed server side from the users ip to the inserted ip.

3. A graphic is generated from the data showing the various hops.

Roundcrisis - how do you generate the graphic? My first experience with dynamically generating graphics is my sig below, just took data from the RSS feed to my site and used php to 'write' the png graphic with the headlines.

Would it be php? Or java etc.?

And the backend code to run the traceroute. - if the site was at all popular wouldn't that need quite a bit of resources?

roundcrisis

dangerman:
1, 2 and 3 well thats what i had in mind too.

replying your question: I reckon php, I have generated some dinamic images but i never tryed this kind of thing before, let me work on it a bit. Maybe we could offer to versions, with and without graphics so that if a visitor is on the site and its getting very slow, then we switch to the text only version wich will display the same informaiton (like router name, location, ip, i think)

and yes the resources could be a burden,

roundcrisis

By the way thanks to the mod of this forum for making this thread a sticky

r.

Webmonkey

Hey Guys, this sounds interesting. Id like to help out with this. How are you going to organise all this now. Should there be a dedicated website showing status of the development of the project. Maybe you should start building a team.

hostyle

Come up with a decent idea that hasnt been done more than five times already and I'll do the programming for you.

Ph3n0m

I do have to ask - what benefit does this proposed project have, apart from "showing off".

This type of thing has been done before, in fact most development ideas are simply re-hashes of whats already out there.

Initially this was going to be a "Open Source software project" and now in the last page or so, it appears to have been reduced to a project where a few technical people would benefit from developing the suggested idea - pardon me, but that is kinda pointless.

I am not blasting the idea of a group project but perhaps people need to go back to the drawing board and think of a practical product/project that would not just benefit those involved, but maybe have applications on a much wider scale (i.e. commercially)

just my €0.02