What one thing would you change or do to improve target shooting in Ireland?

Sparks

Okay, so we all have ideas that might improve target shooting as a sport in Ireland. But I'd like to get an idea of what would be the single most important change people would make and why they'd make it. So let's hear it folks - what would you change about the sport if you could only change (or introduce) one thing; what would you think the effect would be and why do you think it's important?

It wasn't me!

Right, really long *BUMP* time, so let's make this one useful. If you have any ideas at all on the practical improvement of the target shooting scene in Ireland, across the board, air them here. I only represent one facet of one NGB, but I promise to take ideas on board to the benefit of the shooter, and there are plenty of people here from other disciplines who could all do with hearing people's views and opinions too, so now's as good a time as any to say your bit.

dos29

Only applicable to centrefire, but its the one that I'm sure everyone thinks of when they think of making centrefire more accurate.......

RELOADING!!

Simple really.

Sparks

I guess it's ironic as I was the OP, but I find it hard to answer my own question - and frankly, several of the possible answers I would have had in '04 are not possible answers now because they've already happened. We have our cheap entry path to the sport (air pistol); we have more shooters and clubs than we had in '04 by a significant margin (I know it doesn't seem that way, but it is that way when you look at the numbers); we have more communications with the government in the form of the FCP, and it's brought with it a better working relationship between the shooting administrative bodies; we have a stronger europass (it's just time to sign papers over here for it to be sorted); we had more money pumped into the sport (though more is always to be welcomed!); we even did a lot to get our house in order on the organisational side.

I suppose, if I had to choose one thing now, that above all else hampers our sport, it'd be that we have not yet managed to find a way to solve the 2% problem (ie. 2% of the shooters doing 98% of the work). If we fixed that, if we actually got up off our collective rear ends more often, we'd probably find our sport's problems suddenly became far less intractable.

It wasn't me!

For my part, seeing as I kicked this thing back to life:

For centrefire rifle, we need the ability to reload and form brass for various calibres for which factory ammunition is either ridiculously expensive (6BR) or non-existent (6.5-.284 Norma) or just not available here (plenty worth a mention). A mechanism along the lines of that used by our British counterparts would be entirely workable, and we don't see them having mad scientist type accidents, so it's safe too.

Closer to my own game, we could use more money. Having to be picky about what we send people to because we can only afford one or two competitions a year doesn't help. It's not something that we can rectify ourselves either without help. Significantly increased funding means more shooters sent abroad annually, getting exposed to a higher level of competition than is available here, which means higher levels generated here, which means more shooters fit to send abroad, which in net terms means more chance of bringing back silverware and such and therefore justifying the spending (So more investment yields disproportionately higher results).

Involvement on the part of shooters in key too. More shoulders at the wheel not only means more work getting done, it means more shooters are clued in to the administrative side of the sport, be it at club or NGB level, which means there's a greater degree of clarity across the board, less complaining and a better relationship with the NGB's. More work getting done is just as important. If your club has a few extra pairs of hands running matches, they can run more matches more easily, and that's a good thing.

firefly08

If I could do one thing, it would be to establish a legal right to own firearms & ammunition, once and for all! Not necessarily in a Second Amendment kind of way - just something to guarantee that all future governments will have to respect the target shooting community whether they approve of guns or not.

As it stands now, it is regarded as a privilege, to be revoked anytime the government sees fit. Even if we can persuade the current government trust us, the plug can still be pulled any time in the future, and that's a very discouraging factor to anyone thinking of investing time and money in the sport.

Vegeta

Christ the list here could be endless:

More top class facilities:
Why do so many people play GAA. Simple really, every town has a GAA club. Lord knows this has improved no end in the last 10 years but clubs are still pretty thin on the ground in some areas, requiring long drives and time to get to them. It effectively makes practice impossible for lots of people.
If there were more facilities then there would be more places to shoot (obviously), more people would give it a try (well maybe not according to the outputs of the recent conference) more competitors, rivalry, higher standard etc etc

So if there was one thing I would do if I won the euro millions it would be to build a world class range or 3 as close to me as possible.

A few other things would be, one man, one license as in the UK and reloading.

Sparks

Ach! One thing per poster!

bigred

Up the definition of a firearm from 1J to something that will allow the target stuff in (8-10J?). Air is the perfect place to start, but given it's as hard to get a licence for this, everyone just gets something bigger by default.

Ease of acquisition would undoubtedly increase ownership, and would consequently increase attendance at competition. Also, costs aren't prohibitive (why I do it) - EUR10 for 500 rounds of ammo - it's a no brainer. Without onerous licence restrictions, those that have bigger stuff may pick up an airgun just for the craic also.

You could also generate a lot of jobs (in theory) as we would likely develop a market similar to the UK where there's a major following for the plinkers in the sub 12ft/lb area.

Sparks

bigred wrote: »

Up the definition of a firearm from 1J to something that will allow the target stuff in (8-10J?).

7.5 Joules in Germany; all the ISSF stuff made there will have an F in a pentagram stamped on them somewhere to indicate they comply with this and need no licence. (Paintball stuff, just for reference, comes in around the 14 joule mark)

FLOYDSTER

It really all does come down to money really!, doesnt it??

A regular coaching program, even once every few months would be a start!, and thats from beginner right through to international shooters.

If more younger people and juniors could be brought in and coached then although its gonna take a while to filter through to them shooting top level it will eventually happen!

And then its down to training on similar equipment to those used at international shoots, eg single bull targets!

I think its too late for some of us but the younger members could be the way to go!!;)

Sparks

FLOYDSTER wrote: »

A regular coaching program, even once every few months would be a start!

That's what this is for; and as soon as that's done, I'm going to get the national squad training up and running again.

Dr_Teeth

My one thing would be for people to try as many different shooting disciplines as possible. Too many people here have formed negative opinions, spread false rumours, etc about certain shooting disciplines without ever actually trying them out, or learning anything about them or getting to know the community.

I myself have tried IPSC, ISSF, WA1500, timed precision, benchrest pistol, benchrest rifle, gallery rifle, air rifle, sporting clays and DTL so far. I've enjoyed all of them though of course I have my favorites, and have met some great people in each community.

However there are many people who stick to only one discipline and look down on, or bad mouth people from others. That has to stop. All of these shooting disciplines are legitimate and should as accessible to Irish people as they are to people in most other EU states.

It wasn't me!

That would be brilliant Sparks. I know I for one could definitely do with regular coaching in a serious way to help me get a lot of things sorted. Have a feeling a lot of my stuff is psychological anyway, so spending time with a coach would be a great way to eliminate a lot of the second-guessing I do of myself.

I don't think one thing per poster is good enough. There are a lot of ideas here and they're all valuable, because ultimately we have to cater to shooters of all levels, not NGB executive committees or anything of the sort.

Sparks

Well, the one-thing-per-poster idea really was to try to get the single most important things we could do; I mean, I could sit here for an hour listing possible improvements, but while we can do anything, we can't do everything, y'know?

Grizzly 45

[

there will have an F in a pentagram stamped on them somewhere to indicate they comply with this and need no licence

.

You mean a Pentagon ???Air rifle shooting Wiccans would use the Pentagram:):D.
Anyways to make it more PR friendly.It must be shown that it is a sport that can be enjoyed by everyone,young ,old,male ,female,and that it doesnt cost the earth,or it is eliteist.
Somthing like Germany,where near enough every village has a schuetzenverein[shooting club] which shoots everything from air guns to full bore depending on their facilities and intrests,and is as well kown as the local soccer team.Would be absolutely brilliant.

Sikamick

The coming together of all the leading bodies in the shooting sports for the benefit of all the people that are involved in the shooting sports.

Get rid of the politics, crap and money makers that are sucking the sport dry.

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

The coming together of all the leading bodies in the shooting sports for the benefit of all the people that are involved in the shooting sports.

Get rid of the politics, crap and money makers that are sucking the sport dry.

Sikamick

Actually Mick, the shooting bodies work very well together and have good relationships with each other. I thought you might have picked that up from your visit to Mullingar earlier this month.

It's those outside the tent pissing in that are the problem.

rrpc

To add to the wish list: I know IWM already mentioned this, but he cheated and had more than one thing on his wishlist

More money invested in the sport. All the other things people have mentioned here would either happen if there was more money, or would be not very effective without more money.

sfakiaman

The biggest problem for me is the lack of ranges. I have to drive 80 miles each way to MNSCI which means maybe twice a month. To get good at the sport you'd need to shoot two or three times a week.

One part of the problem is probably the legal side but another is the lack of publicity to attract people to the sport. If there are no facilities it is of course very hard to attract people.

What might help would be if the NGB's could compile a starter pack of information to assist smallish groups of shooters out in the boonies to get something started. I am aware that range authorisation is under discussion at the moment but when this is sorted maybe some help from "Head Office" might be useful.

Valter

Coaching, coaching and more coaching, oops thats more than 1, sorry!!

milkerman

For any sport to prosper there has to be a steady influx of fresh blood. That influx is already largely stemmed by very restrictive legislation in this country.

Nevertheless, there are 50.000 odd (feel free to correct) rifles in the country. I reckon only a fraction of these ever participate in formal target shooting, why? Well, the nearest range could be a long drive away. The formal nature of target shooting puts a good many off as the emphasis is on competing rather than the fun of testing a shooter's skill. I am a member of a club, I was warmly welcomed when I expressed an interest. I got a cool reception at another club and walked away after about 20 minutes- I know now that the individual I met is not representative of that club - but he was my first impression.

So what am I saying? If we want to improve participation in this sport we must go out of our way to welcome new blood. In addition to the existing target disciplines I think we need to set up some new formats to suit the guy who mainly shoots rabbits with a bog standard gun and just wants to enjoy the craic with like minded individuals. Good shooters will emerge from that pool. I have met new members in our club who couldnt zero a scope - they would benefit from some basic lessons on shooting - WE ALL MIGHT:eek:
BUT most of all, every step we take should be aimed at maximising the FUN we derive from hurling large sums of cash at paper targets.

Sparks

50.000 odd (feel free to correct) rifles in the country

I thought 40,000, but my stats may be out of date.

Rovi

Toilets.

Seriously.

It's improved a good bit over the last few years, but if ranges and clubs wish to appeal to prospective members other than the overwhelmingly male (generally of 'a certain age') clientèle that currently comprise their membership, sanitary facilities have to be up to modern acceptable standards.

The days of sprinkling a bush while your mates shout ribald encouragement are over.

Sparks

Myself, ItWasn'tMe and one of the ladies from DURC were chatting last night in DURC. The lady's home range back in the UK made it into the final edition of Target Sports for a profile, and she was looking wistfully at its immaculate interior, its eight airgun firing points, its fifteen smallbore firing points, its clubroom and everything else, and remembering it cost all of fifty pounds sterling per year to join, and that included the secured locker. ItWasn'tMe was commenting on the Midlands range and the idea of a DURC Palma shoot over a thousand yards, and it suddenly got noticed that the bloke's idea of a good range was defined by having 600 yards of bog to shoot over; and the lady's idea of a good range was defined by it being clean and neat and having lots of facilities to make the sport more convienent.

So I'm thinking Rovi's point is decidedly correct!

emollett

Sparks wrote: »

Myself, ItWasn'tMe and one of the ladies from DURC were chatting last night in DURC. The lady's home range back in the UK made it into the final edition of Target Sports for a profile, and she was looking wistfully at its immaculate interior, its eight airgun firing points, its fifteen smallbore firing points, its clubroom and everything else, and remembering it cost all of fifty pounds sterling per year to join, and that included the secured locker. ItWasn'tMe was commenting on the Midlands range and the idea of a DURC Palma shoot over a thousand yards, and it suddenly got noticed that the bloke's idea of a good range was defined by having 600 yards of bog to shoot over; and the lady's idea of a good range was defined by it being clean and neat and having lots of facilities to make the sport more convienent.

So I'm thinking Rovi's point is decidedly correct!

Ah now, i'll happily shoot over some bog! But yes, toilets are a very important facility for those of us who would rather not piss in a bush.
Discussion of that club throws up one way which they have used to increase both the numbers participating in the sport and the image, and that is to have a dedicated juniors night. They suffered a massive drop in numbers after the handgun ban, and so decided to bring in a night dedicated to junior shooters, with club guns (originally lent by existing members i believe) and with time given up by some of the older guys in the club. When i was there they had maybe 15 kids under the age of 18 shooting .22 and several more doing air rifle and pistol. Now, i know that this involves a lot of effort on our part, getting the kit and people to coach and just getting people involved, but getting people in young ensures a supply of young blood to the sport, and will improve the image. To some a kid winning medals with a rifle probably seems a lot less threatening and hidden, plus their families and friends will get a different angle on the sport.
Of course this hinges on previous needs of money, facilities and willing volunteers.
(Of coruse having kids there means you need the facilities for their parents to sit and have a cup of tea. Whilst they are doing this, you rope them in to be volunteers...)