[Article] Galway airport plans more routes

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/0923/galway.html

Galway airport plans more routes
September 23, 2004 14:47

Galway Airport is to spend €3m on an upgrade of its runway and increased safety features.

The airport is also to introduce increased services to UK destinations such as London, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh and Glasgow next year.

Chairman Joe Higgins also announced plans to seek new routes to Liverpool, Leeds-Bradford, Southampton and possibly Paris.

Mr Higgins said that Aer Arann would be 'our first port of call' in finding carriers for the new routes. He said he would be inviting the airline and the Galway Chamber of Commerce to a meeting to discuss the plans.

Yoda

Please let one destination be Heathrow... Please let one destination be Heathrow... Please let one destination be Heathrow...

dowlingm

Yoda

when Galway can take an A320 maybe it will see LHR. (and even then probably not). Have you any notion of what LHR slots cost? (hint: more than an ATR72 will bring in).

enterprise

You would never see Galway served from Heathrow - can you imagine how much the "slots" would cost?

If they did serve London, it would be one of the following Stansted, Luton, Gatwick or maybe London City.

Flukey

All those secondary airports should be upgraded to add more options than just the big 3. I don't favour the Shannon stopover. One of the arguments for it is that it benefits the whole west and south of Ireland. First of all, someone sitting on the tarmac in Shannon is not benefitting a hotelier in Killarney or a restauranteur in Clifden etc. Secondly, if allowing planes from America to land in Shannon benefits the south and west then surely letting planes from America land in Cork and Knock and any other airports in the region that could take those planes, would benefit the south and west even more. So I fully support the extension of Galway airport and other airports should follow the lead. If we want regional development this in one of the things that needs to be done. Hopefully soon we will have Galway and the like linking up to a lot more major destinations than just Heathrow.

dowlingm

Flukey

who is going to pay for your expansion? The taxpayers who are currently subsidising GWY, NOC, KIR, CFN and SXL with PSO money?

only in Ireland is the distance from SNN to Clifden thought a problem - this is because of our road network. I can assure you that having moved to Ontario the notion of being unable to attract tourists that far is laughable. Scheduled flights should be able to operate to NOC as that's a fair distance but it's codding yourself to think GWY will ever be more than a regional serving UK dests when you can get jet service at SNN and NOC.

Finally, a rail spur to SNN with a re-opened Ennis-Oranmore and proper integration of DUB into the rail network would solve a lot of problems people have getting to the region.

Flukey

I don't believe Galway ever will actually get to that stage, just that it would be good if we could build the infrastructure up in this country, as you have pointed out. We need improvements in all our transport infrastructure: road, rail, air and sea. Obviously you are never going to get flights from JFK to Waterford, but there is some scope for the regional airports to create more routes for themselves, to places in Britain and some other parts of Europe. From that perspective anything extra that Galway can do is welcome, even if you never will be able to fly from YYZ to GWY.

Yoda

dowlingm wrote:

Yoda

when Galway can take an A320 maybe it will see LHR. (and even then probably not). Have you any notion of what LHR slots cost? (hint: more than an ATR72 will bring in).

Heathrow is a "real" destination which gets anyone connected to hundreds of onward "real" destinations. Everything through Dublin Airport isn't convenient for everyone. It's not national service.

Occidental

Yoda,

Heathrow Airport is slot restricted, as the runways are permanently running at close to full capacity. As a result of this, slots at Heathrow have become a valuable commodity. To maximise use of these slots, airlines concentrate on a mixture of high yield/high capacity flights. Sub 100 seat aircraft are a novelty item at Heathrow.

Galway has a short runway which offers no possibility of high capacity flights and has limited high yield potential. Aer Arann have no history of flights to Heathrow and holds no slots. Aer Lingus and BMi who do hold slots at Heathrow, have no aircraft capable of operating into Galway without severe restrictions.

The biggest problem that Galway has is the runway length. The current site has been ruled out for a significant runway extension. The owners looked at a number of greenfield sites over the last few years to establish a new airport, but this has come to nothing. A major part of the current work at the airport is to install a new ILS. This should at least mean you get to land in Galway rather than Shannon, when the weather gets a bit dodgy.

BTW Aer Arann do fly to Luton from Galway

Flukey

It has been announced that from next May Continental Airlines will be flying between New York and Belfast, the first direct connection between America and Northern Ireland.

Yoda

What good is Luton for onward connections? Not much. Good for visiting my friends in Camden Town, though.

ishmael whale

Yoda wrote:

Heathrow is a "real" destination which gets anyone connected to hundreds of onward "real" destinations. Everything through Dublin Airport isn't convenient for everyone. It's not national service.

http://www.luchtzak.be/article4711.html

The article above gives an indication of the value of Heathrow slots. It looks like a pair of slots could cost of the order of STR£10 million.

Part of the problem on the West coast is you have a smaller catchment population than Dublin Airport but shared by Knock, Shannon, Galway, Sligo, Kerry and Donegal. Galway probably would be a sensible place for an airport for the region – but the market’s a bit crowded and so a bit of rationalisation would help.

dubhthach

The problem with galway airport is it was built in the wrong location, it's a restricted site with roads at both ends of the runway, as a result they can't extend the runway to take any sorta of decent jet aircraft like a320 series (a319, a320 and a321) or 737's (about small corporate jets that is).
The only hope of such aircraft would be for the airport to be moved a couple of km's down the road (i think it's 2-3) to the old RAF airfield at Oranmore (the army shooting range). This site could fit a runway 3-4 times the size of the current one. This was proposed a couple of years ago but Bobby Molloy (who i think was in defense at the time) had it shot down as the army know full well that the site it worth a fortune if it was developed for either housing or industry.

ishmael whale

dubhthach wrote:

The problem with galway airport is it was built in the wrong location, it's a restricted site with roads at both ends of the runway, as a result they can't extend the runway to take any sorta of decent jet aircraft .......... The only hope of such aircraft would be for the airport to be moved ......... to the old RAF airfield at Oranmore ......... This was proposed a couple of years ago but Bobby Molloy .......... had it shot down as the army know full well that the site it worth a fortune if it was developed for either housing or industry.

I thought the reason the Airport wasn’t moved had to do with lobbying on behalf of other airport interests, notably Knock, rather than the Government seeking to get a greater profit for the land. Presumably an airport based near Galway would have greater potential for growth, and could ultimately be expected to undermine Knock’s existence. One might well ask who gains from this in the long run, but in any case regional politics seem to be the reason that Galway’s progress is hampered.


http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2000/10/03/story291896.asp

Tuesday, October 03, 2000 :
Oranmore plan threatens Knock airport
Tuesday, October 03, 2000
”A Mayo TD has asked the Taoiseach not to allow the sale of Department of Defence land at Oranmore, Co Galway, which has been earmarked as a potential site for a new airport. Michael Ring of Fine Gael fears that the development of a new international airport in Galway could have a catastrophic effect on the future of Knock International Airport in Co Mayo……Beverly Cooper-Flynn, Fianna Fail TD for Mayo, said she spoke to Mary O'Rourke about the future of the airport just over a week ago….. The Minister of State for the Gaeltacht and the Islands, Galway TD Eamon O Cuiv, who supports the building of the new airport at Oranmore, said he would favour the land remaining in state control ad that it would not necessarily be in the interest of the government to sell it…..”

sliabh

ishmael whale wrote:

I thought the reason the Airport wasn’t moved had to do with lobbying on behalf of other airport interests, notably Knock, rather than the Government seeking to get a greater profit for the land. Presumably an airport based near Galway would have greater potential for growth, and could ultimately be expected to undermine Knock’s existence. One might well ask who gains from this in the long run, but in any case regional politics seem to be the reason that Galway’s progress is hampered.

Ah good old fashioned parish pump politics.

People complain all the time about incompetent planning or design, but I think a fair proportion of the problems of this country come from vote hunting politicians trying to please every sort of local interest. And in the long run regional and national interests suffer. Hospitals, roads, airports and factories are something every little town feels it is entitled to, and damn the cost or inefficiency of it all.

It's probably more an argument for the Politics forum , but as long as you only need about 10,000 votes to get a seat in Dail Eireann we are going to continue to see TDs bugging ministers for millions on (costly) white elephant infrastructure projects to buy a few more votes. The same situation would not apply if we had less TD's or some of them elected through a national list system.

dubhthach

ishmael whale wrote:

Galway TD Eamon O Cuiv, who supports the building of the new airport at Oranmore, said he would favour the land remaining in state control ad that it would not necessarily be in the interest of the government to sell it…..”

Well no doubt the action of the Mayo TD's had an affect but the Dept. of Defense didn't want to sell the land due to it's future potential worth, something that verified by the above statement by Eamon O Cuiv
eg. Best Interest = As much money as possible

I know there was plans footed earlier this year to build a huge "Hi-Tech" business Park between Oranmore and Athenry which would have included parts (if not all) of this site so it is worth a considerable amount of money.

ishmael whale

dubhthach wrote:

... the Dept. of Defense didn't want to sell the land due to it's future potential worth, something that verified by the above statement by Eamon O Cuiv.....

I don’t see any evidence for your statement that this proposal failed because of Dept of Defence objections, and you will note that O Cuiv’s statement was to the effect that the site should remain in state ownership, but he proposed building an airport on it.

I have found a few links that suggest that local politics were a strong factor. Bobby Molloy, who you suggested played a role in quashing the proposal, actually seems to have expressed vague support for it. The chair of the Galway airport board opposed the idea of moving, which suggests the local politics were more complex than Mayo vs Galway. But the relevant parties look to be found West of the Shannon.

At the end of the day a decision had to be made either to invest some money in the existing site, in the knowledge it would never be able to take jets and therefore never be able to compete with Knock, and moving to the new site which offered potential for development into an international airport. The second option would seem to create problems for Knock and, possibly, Shannon. (It might also be noted that the reason the West’s two largest airports are in awkward locations is also the outcome of local politics.)

The final decision seems to have fallen to Mary O’Rourke. The outcome ? Here we are a few years later wondering why you can’t land a jet in Galway.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/1999/08/11/ihead_10.htm

Galway airport plan in doubt

Declan Varley
JUST days after Galway airport announced a £5 million expansion plan, the airport board has been asked to scrap its plans by a Government Junior Minister.
The £5 million plan would have seen the complete redevelopment of the terminal building at the airport at Carnmore, but Junior Minister Eamon O Cuiv said that this plan should be dropped so that a massive £20 million plan would be provided to build a totally new airport elsewhere.
The airport has suffered in recent years because of its inability to take medium range aircraft and many airlines have withdrawn air links because of this. Minister O Cuiv said that the board should scrap this £5 million plan and opt instead for an ambitious £20 million which he feels would be funded by the Government and local business.
He said that the airport should take a leap of ambition and opt for the new location so that a more modern airport can be constructed to reflect the needs of the area. He said that the airport should move from its restricted current location and relocate at Oranmore on lands owned by the Galway Corporation and the Department of Defence.
However, his comments have been slated by airport chairman John Coyle who said that Minister O Cuiv is not the relevant minister to deal with the issue.

http://www.unison.ie/tuam_herald/stories.php3?ca=38&si=267027&issue_id=2846
New Galway airport could double as a military base, says Eamon O Cuiv
THE proposed new airport on a 500 acre Department of Defence/Galway Corporation site at Oranmore could also be used as a military base for some of the Army’s operations according to Minister Eamon O Cuiv.
The Minister of State said that much of the Army’s operations for the West, which are currently co-ordinated out of Baldonnell in Dublin, could be moved to the west if the new international airport is build in Galway.
A report in the Sunday Business Post newspaper states that ESAT chairman Denis O’Brien is willing to invest £25 million in the new Galway Airport at Oranmore.
He would recoup his investment from landing charges and he also suggests that the Marine Rescue Service which is currently based at Shannon Airport should be moved to the Galway facility.
………. Minister Bobby Molloy has also said that any private proposal which would improve the air services in and out of Galway should be given serious consideration by the Government.

http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg09166.html

dowlingm

Dual civil/military use is a good idea not just for GWY but the other regionals too. If that's what it takes to make it happen... not to mention a handy way of subsidising them. It also reduces Baldonnel movements which is nice for DUB and Weston.

Bet the punters who bought houses in Oranmore are already drafting letters to the papers - I have no sympathy for those who buy houses near LHR or DUB and then find it noisy but there was no reasonable expectation previously at Oranmore.

What would the land GWY is currently on fetch if it were to be thrown in? Don't know the area well.

ishmael whale

dowlingm wrote:

Dual civil/military use is a good idea not just for GWY but the other regionals too. If that's what it takes to make it happen... not to mention a handy way of subsidising them. It also reduces Baldonnel movements which is nice for DUB and Weston.

I think we need to move away from the idea that public facilities can achieve more than the purpose for which they are created. By this I mean we should site an Air/Sea rescue service where it makes the most sense to provide rescue services, not to give airport X a bit of business. If this means we put it in, for the sake of argument, Shannon, fine, then that's something useful Shannon can do. Ditto for military use. But policies like the stopover - trying to use Shannon for a purpose that it is not suited to - only leads to disaster.[/QUOTE]

dowlingm wrote:

Bet the punters who bought houses in Oranmore are already drafting letters to the papers - I have no sympathy for those who buy houses near LHR or DUB and then find it noisy but there was no reasonable expectation previously at Oranmore.

I think the proposal is now dead, but you are right that frequently local politics provides the explanation for bad decisions.

therecklessone

dowlingm wrote:

It also reduces Baldonnel movements which is nice for DUB and Weston.

A champion idea.

ishmael whale

It will be understood that I’m not in the market for state funded visionary investment programmes for Knock Airport, notwithstanding all they’ve done to send tourists and pilgrims abroad to boost the economies of the Canaries and Fatima.

But one idle thought. If it was decided to flush another €41 million down the Western airport tube, could this level of funding make a significant contribution to providing Galway with an airport on a new site capable of taking jets?

http://212.2.162.45/news/story.asp?j=122306734&p=yzz3x744x&n=122307494

Passenger numbers booming at Knock
28/10/2004 - 08:47:56

Passenger numbers increased by 55% to 287,000 between January and September at Knock International Airport, the airport announced today.

Charter passenger numbers almost doubled from 26,000 in 2003 to 51,000 in 2004.

Chief Executive of Knock International Airport Liam Scollan said: "2004 continues to show very positive growth for the airport."

He added that Knock had started an October-November charter service to Cape Town and would operate skiing charters to Andorra with Panorama Holidays between now and Christmas.

easyJet is also set to start a London-Gatwick service in January, and in summer 2005 both Stein Travel and Falcon/JWT will operate charters to Faro.

Mr Scollan said Knock is capable of achieving one million passengers by 2008, if there is additional investment in facilities and strong government support.

In June 2004 the airport submitted a €41m visionary investment programme to the Government as part of the lead-up to the second round of the National Development Fund 2005-2006.